Why haven't the Left got Georgia on their minds?

[lone wolf]

When I hear reports about Russian nuclear threat I became angry. Putin or others Russian politicians never said it or something like this! I think U.S. speak about it because have a Rusofobia in their minds.

Sharing a world with the USA is like inflating two balloons in a bucket. When one is taken out, the other fills with more air and takes up the space. The bucket hasn't got bigger ... just the balloon. Industry loved the Cold war. It was used as a form of terrorism to extort money from the common man and make the rich richer.

 

[Zzarchov]

I will tell you some historical facts. At first, South Ossetia never has been a part of Georgia. And South Ossetia doesn’t legal territory of Georgia. Can you believe me? May be no, but its true. Many documents say about it. If I knew English better, I would translate these documents. But I will try to tell you something.
South Ossetia (how part of single Ossetia) affiliated to Russian Empire voluntarily in 1774. After 27 years Georgia (how some principalities) affiliated to Russian Empire voluntarily too.
In 1920 South Ossetia defended the privilege for self-detetmination and wanted to remain in North Ossetia and Russia. But Ossets were exposed by genocide by Georgia. Afterwards South Ossetia was added by Georgian SSR how autonomous region. GSSR broke the Soviet Declaration from 15 November 1917.
In November 1989 and March – June 1990 Supreme Soviet of GSSR received some laws which abrogated laws which were received by GSSR pending Soviet period since 1921 among that agreement about foundation USSR. These laws abrogate South Ossetian autonomous region.
GSSR ignored Soviet Constitution and Judicial procedures about leaving Soviet Republic. Tbilisi had been itself outside International legal framework which was provided by Soviet constitution. These acts did South Ossetia outside legal space of Georgia.
17 March 1991.USSR was accomplishing referendum about saving USSR. Georgia didn’t take part in it, but South Ossetia voted for USSR by 97% of people. Since this moment GSSR haven’t any rights on South Ossetia.

A few facts you are missing there. 1 is that Georgia was conquered by Russia. Are you saying it is right for Russia to fight and conquer another country? Georgia had no duty to take part in a soviet referendum, as it never voluntarily joined Russia, it was an Occupied Territory.

Now don't get me wrong. I can agree that if South Ossetia voted not to be part of Georgia it should leave.

But South Ossetia didn't vote that way, as it didn't let everyone in South Ossetia vote, that is why there were two elections. One said they wanted to join russia, one said they wanted to join Georgia. And Russia did not let Chechnya leave when it voted to leave in the exact way.

 

[Zzarchov]

When I hear reports about Russian nuclear threat I became angry. Putin or others Russian politicians never said it or something like this! I think U.S. speak about it because have a Rusofobia in their minds.

Actually they did openly threaten to point missiles at NATO countries, notably poland. If the neighbours around Russia do not like Russia, maybe Russia should sit back and realise its being a jerk.

It doesn't seem odd to you that ALL of russias neighbours are opposed to Russia?

 

[lone wolf]

Logically, when one places missiles to intercept, they are placed somewhere between launch point and target. Hint .... Bomarks in Canada to intercept Russian planes, Patriot interceptors along Israel's East to spook the scuds. Can you read a map? Poland is right on Russia's doorstep ... NOT Iran as the propaganda would have us believe. Who do you suppose is being the jerk and provoking Russian distrust?

 

[Zzarchov]

Well lets go over that.

1.) Poland can put interceptor systems wherever it wants. interceptors are useless unless someone starts trying to bring armageddon, why does russia care so much?

2.) Map time fun!

Poland is actually directly between Iran and the UK along a likely missile path. If Iran is firing all the way to the US its probably going into orbit then dropping back down. Plus thats further away than the UK, who will be a target sooner than the US mainland.

North Korea could hit the US mainland from the other direction, but thats why the US has sea borne and Island interceptors over there.


Either way, Russia can do whatever it wants on its own soil. It can do whatever it wants on allies soil (And it does, in Syria). The problem is only when it does things on the soil of nations who don't want it there.

 

[lone wolf]

Well lets go over that.

1.) Poland can put interceptor systems wherever it wants. interceptors are useless unless someone starts trying to bring armageddon, why does russia care so much?

2.) Map time fun!

Poland is actually directly between Iran and the UK along a likely missile path. If Iran is firing all the way to the US its probably going into orbit then dropping back down. Plus thats further away than the UK, who will be a target sooner than the US mainland.

North Korea could hit the US mainland from the other direction, but thats why the US has sea borne and Island interceptors over there.


Either way, Russia can do whatever it wants on its own soil. It can do whatever it wants on allies soil (And it does, in Syria). The problem is only when it does things on the soil of nations who don't want it there.

It's NOT UK or Poland putting missiles in Poland. It is the United States ... and that started long before Russian objections and threats.

Iran couldn't be bothered with the US. Why would they? It's Israel who is the thorn in the Muslim side. Iran is smart enough to realize the States has more warheads than any galaxy needs. An interceptor launched from Poland will get there ten minutes after the fireball.

 

[Zzarchov]

Ya, and the USA is an ally of the UK. The US spends quite a bit defending Europe you know.

I also don't think you understand what an Interceptor is based on your comment about an interceptor launched from Poland "getting there"

You know it doesn't "get there" right, its an interceptor.

 

[lone wolf]

Ya, and the USA is an ally of the UK. The US spends quite a bit defending Europe you know.

I also don't think you understand what an Interceptor is based on your comment about an interceptor launched from Poland "getting there"

You know it doesn't "get there" right, its an interceptor.

I think I'm rather well versed in the concept of interception. "Getting there" is getting to wherever point of contact with the nasty ol' bad guy missile is. Like I said ... get out your Grade 6 geography book and see where Poland is ... then see where Iran and Israel are.

Oh yeah ... in case you hadn't noticed - Great Britain is just as technically advanced as the USA. Uncle Sam is meddling and pissed off the bear. There are times we might be better off if the USA could mind it's own business and worry about keeping its own ass out of bankruptcy. War might be good business ... but nothing says forever like a nuclear winter.

 

[Yastreb]

Zzarchov, Do you really believe in that you write? I’m sorry, if you suppose so. But you don’t alone who says even arguments. Tell me please, if military organization determines her ABM nearly with Canadian border will you be glad. I think no. U.S. didn’t be glad when USSR had determined missiles on Cuba. But if I follow for you logic I will be able to say that USSR had right to do it because Cuba was the ally soil of USSR. And if you know Soviet Union did it because U.S. determined missiles in Turkey. I have a déjà vu. Turkey and Ukraine are separated by Black sea. Poland and Russia have a border.
You said “The problem is only when it does things on the soil of nations who don't want it there.” This isn’t problem for U.S. I often visit the Ukraine and can tell you that the majority of people don’t want to NATO, but who did ask him? Politic interests are stronger than opinion of nation. U.S. teaches others countries for democracy, but every country has to come to the democracy itself. U.S. was building her democracy many years. Ex-Soviet republics have been building it for 17 years. “American democracy” – it’s a misfortune for Iraq, Afghanistan and now for Georgia.
And something else. Georgia wasn’t occupied by Russia. NEVER. Whole Georgian nation could be disappeared if Russia didn’t defend their. You of cause won’t believe me because Georgian and U.S. public relations have done Russia guilty of assault.

 

[Yastreb]

Zzarchov. Do you say that ALL Russians neighbors are opposed by Russia? You don/t know nothing. I can call you many countries which support Russia: Belarus, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Tajikistan, Armenia, Turkmenistan, China and others. If you suppose that Ukraine and Georgia in opposition with Russia I tell you that politics come and go away but majority of people of these countries loves Russia and Russians love Ukrainians and Georgians. We remember our history. We are brotherly nations and politics can’t change our relations.