Why haven't the Left got Georgia on their minds?

[Just the Facts]

Who said anything about "rag-headed terrorists"? No one really knows who did it. Sure, circumstantially, it's a good lead that it was yahoo's mistaking it for a mosque, but it's still just conjecture. It could just as easily have been a Jihadi inspired by 9/11.

Sorry to hear about your local mosque. Did they ever find who did it?

I really really hope people can get their stuff together, because otherwise we're in for a nasty ride in this world.

The good news is most people pull together against the dough-heads when these things happen. Apparently the community in Hamilton did a lot to help rebuild the temple. That's encouraging.

 

[gopher]

U.S. demands Russia withdraw from Georgia 'now'

http://wiredispatch.com/news/?id=309611


And if they don't, the "principled" forum right wingers who defended Bush interventionism in Iraq can take the lead in forcing them out. After all, Bush claimed to have been ordained by God to do so and I'm sure He'll readily approve of more such actions.

 

[Zzarchov]

You can't force out the nation with the worlds largest nuclear stockpile Gopher.

This has been brought up before, you've been shown to be a hypocrit on the matter, move on.

When superpowers go at, things don't come down to invasions, they come to decades of political manueverings and/or the apocalypse.

 

[Yastreb]

America and Europe sees that they want to see. The West accuses Russia because somebody needs in it. Much people of the America thinks that Russians – barbarian. They knows about Russia only Bear, vodka, Cossack, Russian dolls. But Russia it’s a great country and Soviet Union was a great country. Americans has got accustomed to see Russia by enemy. U.S. have to watch on them foreign policy prior to teach Russia and others countries. You remember Chechnya but forgot Kosovo. Americans arranges ABM around Russian border and think Russia will be silent. Russian peacemakers were killed by Georgian troops, about 2000 Ossets were killed, much of them were children, women and old men. But U.S. helps Georgia. Georgian solders were burning people brutally ALIVE! Is it democracy? NO!

 

[Zzarchov]

No, we remember Kosovo. Especially in Canada, all the refugees came here fleeing Genocide. We also know quite a bit about Russia beyond Bears and Vodkas, and few people probably no much about the Cossacks however.

Less than half of South Ossetia wanted to be run by the independance movement. Far less than half want to be annexed by Russia (As they did fight for Independance). I know its hard to believe, but sometimes Russia can be the bad guy, just as sometimes America is the bad guy (like Chile).

As for burning people alive, what do you think happened when Russian soldiers drop bombs on cities, thats what happens in war.

 

[Yastreb]

I agree with you that Russia is “bad guy” sometimes. Every country defends her interests and don’t exist ideal country. I read American newspapers, watch American news and compare with Russian news. U.S. says that Russia attack Georgia but this is disinformation. I read opinions of Americans. They think Russia the enemy of the world. When Medvedev says that Russia don’t want a war and need to stop Georgia, U.S. accuses him in encroachment on Georgian democracy. Georgia has destroyed Tshinvali but U.S. has made them victims. Nobody wants a war, Russia don’t want a Hot war or a new Cold war. Our President said about it many times, but U.S. don’t hear his words. The West World have to understand that Russia isn’t enemy. We want collaborate with West but we will be defend our interests. Russia is other country now.
P.S. Russia wasn't droping a bombs on sities in this war

 

[earth_as_one]

Welcome to the forum Yastreb. Thank you for adding a Russian perspective on this conflict.

 

[Zzarchov]

Russia did drop bombs on Georgia, while they no doubt were aiming at military targets (just like georgia did), they did miss and hit civilians (just like Georgia did)

Thats war.

Russia is also not defending South Ossetia, it is conquering it. It waited for Georgia to fight the South Ossetian forces, then came in and is now stealing the land from both of them.

Much the same way it once took Poland.

 

[earth_as_one]

I don't think Russia is Canada's enemy. But I don't trust Russia to treat its neighbors fairly, unless they are able to defend themselves.

Many Russians live in Ossetia and I can understand why Russia would like to ensure Russians are treated fairly. But Russia probably intends to annex parts of Georgia. I disagree with thatm but I also disagree with the Georgian government attacking Ossetia. Georgia should have negotiated with Russia to take back control of their break away regions. They should have guaranteed the rights of minorities in their country in order to convince the Russian to leave.

The Russians were protecting "their" interests when they defended their positions from Georgian attack. But the counter attack and ensuing Georgian invasion was clearly punitive, meant to destabilize the region and a message that Russia can no longer be pushed around by the US which supports the Georgian government. I can understand why Russia would like to communicate that message. We know what happens to countries the US doesn't like who can't defend themselves.

 

[Zzarchov]

They eat cheese, drink wine and get America to defend them for 60 years while they make snide comments?

 

[Yastreb]

I think Russia has some politic interests in with conflict, but much more interests have U.S. in it. You mistake if you think that Russia going to conquer South Ossetia. Russia defend it and defend itself. You say “Thats war.” Yes, but Georgian soldiers were killing defenseless people who were slipping in them houses. Troops used illegal weapon “Grad” to innocent civilians. Saakashvili hasn’t excuse and he doesn’t going to excuse before people.You may be knows South Ossetia’s and Abkhazia’s history. These countries three times are attacked by Georgia because they haven’t been part of this country. In this forum (but isn’t only here) I saw Americans who remember Chechnya. But they may be don’t know that Chechnya its legal Russian territory. Now U.S. naval vessels are in the Black sea. This is contempt by international laws and agreements. They say that they carry CARE package, but its ships of war.

 

[Zzarchov]

Chechnya is legal russian territory, they know that. Thats why it is relevant.

Do you not know that South Ossetia and Abkhazia are legal Georgian Territory?

South Ossetia is to Georgia what Chechnya is to Russia.

I should also point out, Russia has said it is going to conquer South Ossetia and it will absorb South Ossetia (legal Georgian territory) into Russia.

 

[darkbeaver]

They eat cheese, drink wine and get America to defend them for 60 years while they make snide comments?

Yes we were defended from free dental care, GAIs, free post secondary education, full employment and a cash free economy. Lots of Canadians suck the American flag because they'd rather be eating with the bankers, I say lets ship them to the states where they can suck the stars and stripes all day as they lounge in the lap of milk and honey and bask under the soft warm glow of delusion.

 

[darkbeaver]

No, we remember Kosovo. Especially in Canada, all the refugees came here fleeing Genocide. We also know quite a bit about Russia beyond Bears and Vodkas, and few people probably no much about the Cossacks however.

Less than half of South Ossetia wanted to be run by the independance movement. Far less than half want to be annexed by Russia (As they did fight for Independance). I know its hard to believe, but sometimes Russia can be the bad guy, just as sometimes America is the bad guy (like Chile).

As for burning people alive, what do you think happened when Russian soldiers drop bombs on cities, thats what happens in war.

There was no genocide, there was American and NATO mercenary armies of the KLA who incidentally provide most of europe with Afghan heroine flown in to Bondsteel by American military aircraft. What a fuzzy place you occupy in the space time continuim Zzarchov, you're a quantum personality Zzarchov ,you don't really exist, everytime you're observed you change into something more fantastic. Go to church or something, get down with jesus or the purple lizard, you're wasteing thread space that could be more usefully occupied with empty space. Still I don't know what I'd do without your kind, you fill me with hope for the near future and assure me of my sides full sweeping victory in the months to come.:lol:

 

[Yastreb]

I will tell you some historical facts. At first, South Ossetia never has been a part of Georgia. And South Ossetia doesn’t legal territory of Georgia. Can you believe me? May be no, but its true. Many documents say about it. If I knew English better, I would translate these documents. But I will try to tell you something.
South Ossetia (how part of single Ossetia) affiliated to Russian Empire voluntarily in 1774. After 27 years Georgia (how some principalities) affiliated to Russian Empire voluntarily too.
In 1920 South Ossetia defended the privilege for self-detetmination and wanted to remain in North Ossetia and Russia. But Ossets were exposed by genocide by Georgia. Afterwards South Ossetia was added by Georgian SSR how autonomous region. GSSR broke the Soviet Declaration from 15 November 1917.
In November 1989 and March – June 1990 Supreme Soviet of GSSR received some laws which abrogated laws which were received by GSSR pending Soviet period since 1921 among that agreement about foundation USSR. These laws abrogate South Ossetian autonomous region.
GSSR ignored Soviet Constitution and Judicial procedures about leaving Soviet Republic. Tbilisi had been itself outside International legal framework which was provided by Soviet constitution. These acts did South Ossetia outside legal space of Georgia.
17 March 1991.USSR was accomplishing referendum about saving USSR. Georgia didn’t take part in it, but South Ossetia voted for USSR by 97% of people. Since this moment GSSR haven’t any rights on South Ossetia.

 

[darkbeaver]

Thankyou Yastreb. The Georgians must be stupid to trust the west and it's NATO criminals.

 

[Yastreb]

Thank you for you understand me and this conflict. I came in this forum because I want to say you true about this war. When the West changes his opinion about Russia, we will be live in the other world, in the world where will be a piece and friendship.
For those people who believe in American’s lie I tell – Opens your eyes! Hears my voice and thinks by your head! For those people who hear disinformation from U.S. and countries of NATO I will try to speak about it TRUE!

 

[darkbeaver]

The news reporting in the west has been heavily weighted in favour of Georgia, in fact the initial agressor Georgia has now become the victim.

 

[Yastreb]

Yes, U.S. has done from Georgia the victim. And they assist this “victim” and other politicians on East who were made in U.S.

 

[Yastreb]

When I hear reports about Russian nuclear threat I became angry. Putin or others Russian politicians never said it or something like this! I think U.S. speak about it because have a Rusofobia in their minds.