Did Michael Phelps Really Win That 7th Gold

quandary121

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Three times out of how many events(I am not including the Olympics as I did not watch the event in question so I cannot say that he did not win)? The ratio of wins to losses would suggest that he is dominant in swimming.
Neither did i so i could not give an accurate opinion on it,and i will say credit where its due he did already win 6 gold medals ,a remarkable performance ,by Olympic standards ,and i praise his efforts in doing so well,like ive said this was just a article that i saw and thought it worth a kick around to get other peoples views ,and when i first read it and saw the pictures i did believe that this could be truth ,who knows...:?:
 

EagleSmack

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Oh there is one other point that I have touched briefly on...

EIGHT GOLD MEDALS!!!!!!

WEEEEE ARE THE CHAMPIONS...
WEEEEE ARE THE CHAMPIONS...
NOT TIME FOR LOOOOSERS...
CUZ' WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS...
 

Curiosity

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Quandary.... Can you clarify citation for the above article? All I see are "Times journalists and special....." whatever that is....

I can honestly say I thought Phelps believed he lost to Cavic when he surfaced and looked at the results - he appeared really surprised he had scored in top place....and I saw him asking one of the judges if that was the final score.

Why are you trying to hard to criticize one of the really fine athletes who was not only a champ in his sport (regardless of he number of medals he won - seven or eight isn't going to matter much in his future choice of profession and/or earnings as well as his standing in history). For the records, if it is adjudged later as you wish - that he lost to Cavic - he would be the first to right the standings for authenticity and correction.

There are many cheaters and sneaks in the world of sports professional and amateur - why you insist on picking at one of the good guys is beyond my understanding.

If you disagree with the official ruling - get a group together to protest and get the official medal awards changed.

Meanwhile - if winning is as important as you seem to believe, then the world is filled with losers and we will all have to be satisfied, winners are a rarity in our societies.

Personally I think losing isn't so bad - it is how we learn many things about ourselves which winning never seems to bring about.
 

EagleSmack

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Why are you trying to hard to criticize one of the really fine athletes who was not only a champ in his sport (regardless of he number of medals he won - seven or eight isn't going to matter much in his future choice of profession and/or earnings as well as his standing in history).

Did you need to ask that? He is American...that is why.
 

Curiosity

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EagleSmack

I know that - but it isn't an isolated incident in the Olymic events Michael Phelps participated in. Critics abound and they can always be found hovering around the successful in any field. That Americans are able to participate, have great coaches from all over the world, great training facilities and the thrust of the nation behind them.... it makes
for great teams. Maybe China is discovering what a nice feeling it is.

Here is one event in which Phelps did little to assist his team and admitted it immediately to the press if Quandary is so desperate to denounce Phelps.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0DE3D7173DF932A2575BC0A96E9C8B63
SPORTS OF THE TIMES;
A Medal Chase Ignored by Phelps, Watched Closely by Everyone Else
By GEORGE VECSEY
Published: August 11, 2008
Even Michael Phelps needs help sometimes. He won yet another gold medal, in the 4x100-meter freestyle relay on Monday morning here, in world-record time, with the help of a monstrous final leg by Jason Lezak.

''That was awesome,'' Phelps chortled about Lezak's stunning leg of 46.06 seconds, which caught Alain Bernard, the Frenchman who had predicted his team would ''smash'' the Americans. Bernard completed his leg in 46.73 seconds -- and Phelps had his second gold of these Games, gained while watching Lezak from the edge of the pool.
On his way to the victory ceremony, Phelps stopped to disclose that on the team bus coming over to the arena, the Americans had noted how ''the French team was talking a little trash.'' Garrett Weber-Gale, who went behind Phelps in the relay, had said, ''Let our swimming do the talking,'' which they did, most especially Lezak.
''His last 50 meters were absolutely incredible,'' Phelps said with awe, never mentioning his own medal or the totals.
Phelps has refused to speak about the possibility of winning eight gold medals, which would break Mark Spitz's record of seven in one Summer Olympics, but let's look at it this way: Phelps did not enter these eight events, and all the heats leading up to them, to merely break even or get lucky. He is here for the record.
Phelps is the reason NBC strong-armed the hosts into running swimming finals at the bizarre hour of 10 a.m. local time, to satisfy the prime-time audiences in the United States.
On Sunday morning here, he willed himself to a world record, making himself weep when the reality hit home. That gold medal in the 400-meter individual medley was his ninth in the Olympics, and now he is one shy of swimming's career leader, Spitz.
He won the 10th on Monday morning as part of a relay team that had been reconstructed after a B team set a world record Sunday night. Cullen Jones, who was part of the record team, was back on Monday, and Lezak and Weber-Gale were added to the squad.
It was a foregone conclusion that Phelps would have a place in the final. It is as if the beautiful Water Cube were conceived and built just for the rangy man from Baltimore.
Phelps is the unifying individual story of these Games, aside from the host country, of course. So even in the bizarre morning hours, all time revolves around him.
On Sunday morning, after he won his gold, setting a world record of 4 minutes 3.84 seconds, Phelps waved to President Bush, then dutifully went to the mixed zone, where reporters were swarming. He showed his media-savvy side by speaking loudly and slowly enough to be understood four rows deep. This meant he would not have to repeat himself but could satisfy enough people with one appearance, explaining why he had seemed uncharacteristically serious after the race.
''I looked up and I saw the American flag, and it was a pretty special feeling,'' he said. Asked why he had seemed so emotional after the race, Phelps said, ''I wanted to sing on the medal podium, but I kept crying.''
Part of his emotion seemed to stem from how he had surged past his card-playing partner, Ryan Lochte, who was third, behind Laszlo Cseh of Hungary.
''Ryan's coming along like a freight train,'' Phelps said. Also, he had checked his messages from friends all over the world. Not given to public introspection, Phelps seemed to realize how many people were pulling for him -- not just NBC and the sponsors, either. This awareness actually seemed to jangle his nerves a bit, in a good way.
''I can't believe how excited I am to post this time,'' he said.
Having said that, he tried to brush away what he had just accomplished, breaking his own world record.
''I'm not downplaying this race by any means, but I have to put that race behind me,'' Phelps said. ''I have to act like it never happened, because I have so many tough races ahead of me.''
 
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Risus

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May 24, 2006
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Risus

If you truly believe Phelps cheated on that win - will you please explain how he did it?

As it was....

The results would have been challenged by other judges, opposing teams, replays of the timing device were checked and its accuracy also.

If one was to cheat there are easier ways to cheat than an underwater clock which can time in tenths of seconds while being electronically photographed for all to see.

The argument posited here is just an angry temper tantrum beneath the originators and the perps who want to prolong the issue. It's sour grapes - a malady which often occurs in sports of all kinds - pro and amateur.

He didn't win, doesn't deserve the medal, he should do the honorable thing and return it, otherwise he is a cheat...
 

EagleSmack

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He didn't win, doesn't deserve the medal, he should do the honorable thing and return it, otherwise he is a cheat...

Ummm...he swam faster...touched the wall first...was awarded the victory...sounds pretty clear to me.

SOUR GRAPES
 

quandary121

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Quandary.... Can you clarify citation for the above article? All I see are "Times journalists and special....." whatever that is....

I can honestly say I thought Phelps believed he lost to Cavic when he surfaced and looked at the results - he appeared really surprised he had scored in top place....and I saw him asking one of the judges if that was the final score.

Why are you trying to hard to criticize one of the really fine athletes who was not only a champ in his sport (regardless of he number of medals he won - seven or eight isn't going to matter much in his future choice of profession and/or earnings as well as his standing in history). For the records, if it is adjudged later as you wish - that he lost to Cavic - he would be the first to right the standings for authenticity and correction.

There are many cheaters and sneaks in the world of sports professional and amateur - why you insist on picking at one of the good guys is beyond my understanding.

If you disagree with the official ruling - get a group together to protest and get the official medal awards changed.

Meanwhile - if winning is as important as you seem to believe, then the world is filled with losers and we will all have to be satisfied, winners are a rarity in our societies.

Personally I think losing isn't so bad - it is how we learn many things about ourselves which winning never seems to bring about.

Olympic historian claims that FINA refusal to release the conclusive evidence of Phelps' win is "very damaging" to Phelps, Omega, USA. (Source: NY Times, August 20)



Swim Officials Withhold Images of Finish







By THE NEW YORK TIMES
Published: August 16, 2008
BEIJING — The international swimming federation said it would not release the official images of the finish of the Olympic men’s 100 butterfly, in which Michael Phelps beat Milorad Cavic by one-hundredth of a second.

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A spokeswoman for Omega, the official timekeeper for the Beijing Games, initially told The New York Times on Saturday that it would release the images but sent an e-mail later saying that the swimming federation, known as FINA, would not allow it.
Cornel Marculescu, FINA’s executive director, said that the decision was based on policy and that Serbian swimming officials had seen the images and were satisfied that Phelps had won.
"We are not going to distribute footage," Marculescu said. “We are not doing these kinds of things. Everything is good. What are you going to do with the footage? See what the Serbians already saw? It is clarified for us beyond any doubt.
“He’s the winner in any way. He’s the winner no doubt. Even if you could see the pictures, I don’t know how you could use them."
For his part, Cavic, writing on his blog, said of the race, “People, this is the greatest moment of my life.” He continued: “If you ask me, it should be accepted and we should move on. I’ve accepted defeat, and there’s nothing wrong with losing to the greatest swimmer there has ever been..
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/17/sports/olympics/17fina.html
 

karrie

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For his part, Cavic, writing on his blog, said of the race, “People, this is the greatest moment of my life.” He continued: “If you ask me, it should be accepted and we should move on. I’ve accepted defeat, and there’s nothing wrong with losing to the greatest swimmer there has ever been..

and there you have it.
 

quandary121

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Ummm...he swam faster...touched the wall first...was awarded the victory...sounds pretty clear to me.

SOUR GRAPES

EagleSmack you don't know the truth your blinded by your inability to see things differently..!! ,Your clouded judgements come from your patriotic fervour and no mater what is said you refuse to believe that your guy COULD have lost,im not saying he did im not saying he didn't,but WHAT IF...:?:
 

Curiosity

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Quandary

I will repeat - Michael Phelps was surprised his touchpad signalled a win - if you had seen the original swim - he (as did I) thought he had not picked up enough speed for the final leg to win the contest.

If the officials are not going to proceed to clear his name and his record - he is stuck with it as is Civac.

There were many c lose calls - some medal counts were inexplicable in the Track and Gymnastics where they award very lengthy and subjective number calls....

I would put my money on an electronic timer rather than a group of judges' emotional rulings..... because there is bias in humans (we can't help it), and none in electronics.

I think it is unfair to continue to blast Phelps the swimmer however - he was not going to get up in the stands and start arguing with the officials - they would have disqualified him from the games - which may be what you are hoping for.

It's only a moment in our lifetimes - relax and let the fella be.
 
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Curiosity

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Quandary

And the quote you supplied which has no verifiable authentication:
"Olympic historian claims that FINA refusal to release the conclusive evidence of Phelps' win is "very damaging" to Phelps, Omega, USA. (Source: NY Times, August 20)


....will stain Phelp's record for the remainder of his career. They have done sufficient damage wouldn't you agree?

How would this make a young man who has trained all of his life for that one moment in the sun....only to have crazy people telling the world he really lost "but we'll play along"......

I would resist having anything to do with IOC judging any time in the future but Phelps will understand, accept and go on with his life. Because that is Phelps.


 
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EagleSmack

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Feb 16, 2005
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EagleSmack you don't know the truth your blinded by your inability to see things differently..!! ,Your clouded judgements come from your patriotic fervour and no mater what is said you refuse to believe that your guy COULD have lost,im not saying he did im not saying he didn't,but WHAT IF...:?:

You know...very little has come from me with regards to the Olympics save to weigh in on the Chinese Woman's team looking a little on the young side. But hey...whether they were 16 or 11 they put out better olympian gymnasts.

The TRUTH is that Phelps won EIGHT GOLD MEDALS and because he is American you feel the compulsive need to taint his victory. The only clouded judgements are yours because if this Phelps guy was a Brit you would not be saying anything. Nor would I really.

But nooooow... I shall gloat over your defeat once again!

WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS! WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS!

USA! USA! USA!
 

EagleSmack

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Feb 16, 2005
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MMMMMMMWAH!





[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Michael Phelps with one of his octet of golds (Associated Press Photo)
[/FONT]
 

Curiosity

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Found another underwater shot for viewing


The determination for the win was that the rules for Butterfly are: TWO hands touching the pad simultaneously - which Phelps managed and Cavic did not.

LOL teasing you Quandary - one of the posters on YouTube said the people who thought
Phelps won were gay.... haha.... such an insult! Now that's really diggin for humor...but thought I'd pass it along ..haha
 
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