Khadr's lawyers want names of U.S. interrogators

Praxius

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Dec 18, 2007
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Here is Omar playing with what appears to be cake molds...no wait...those are land mines. Ah the thought of getting away to a happy place!

Can you claim they are his? Is he directly working on them, or is that just his Timex watch needing new batteries? Parent's house perhaps and a family photograph? (Just being devil's advocate here of course)




Omar again! He must be doing some knitting. Please ignore the AK-47 in the background...thank you.

Coming from the guy in the country which has the right to bear arms? I've seen plenty of shots of people in the US showing off their firearms. None of these prove he killed the soldier he was blamed for, nor is there any connection towards anything he touched or worked on that has killed anybody. And honestly, if that was taken in Afghanistan... um.... it's Afghanistan, where I'm sure just about everybody and their grandmother has an AK.

Just because there are what appear to be land minds around him in one picture, doesn't mean he made them, or that they were used in any pacticular situation.



Omar again! Supposedly burying landmines...but surely he was just playing in the sand. Afghanistan is such a safe and happy place at night.

That's a picture of him smiling in the night, or someone that looks like him anyways.... I see no mines in this picture.

In fact, if that is supposed to be from the video in which I seen, it's not the same video in which I seen.... too many holes imo.

Honestly you guys would have been better off just shooting him when you got him and save yourselves this headache.... call it a misfire or something. Who would have known?
 

Colpy

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Personally, I think the Americans charging him for "murder" in the middle of a war is ludicrous, hypocritical beyond belief......AND they should read their own Constitution........the Fifth Amendment of the Bill of Rights SPECIFICALLY bans military trials for anyone UNLESS they were serving in the US military at the time of the offense......

Can American lawyers not READ?!!!!!

Mind you, as a foreign combatant not wearing any uniform, he should have been turned over to the Afghans and immediately shot without trial.

Would have saved us all a lot of trouble.
 

EagleSmack

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First off...thanks for the civility. I'd much rather do it this way.

Fair enough... I just figured the prosecutors would have had something snappy to respond with, then just silence.

Perhaps they do it is just not in their plan to grandstand.



Don't get me wrong.... it's not like I want to adopt the guy and take him home with me to baby. All I request is a fair trial, with proper representation and access to the evidence against and for him, not this shame that was just invented a few years ago that hasn't convicted anybody of a crime yet.

Well he will get a trial but I feel that if he is found guilty many will say it is unfair. If he is found innocent they will say it is fair. They have already made up their minds.

And if he is guilty of chucking the grenade, then I hope he gets the proper punishment justifiable for a Child Soldier.

Whatever that may be. Probably to be let go to fight as an adult somewhere.



That film I did see and didn't really look like him at all..... frig, it could have been any kid at that age. But regardless of whatever guilt he may be responsible for, he's underage. If he was 18 or older and commited these acts, sure.... keep him, try him..... find him guilty and that's that (so long as it was a fair and just trial.... no need for us to stoop to their level)

But that film happened to be taken from the house where he was at after the firefight. I don't think we are stooping to their level because if we were his head would have been sawed off and the film sent to FOX News.



Yes, similar to police statements. The problem I have is with them altering what was written after the fact. What was written down the first time should stay. To me, altering the report as they did is reasonable doubt, and although you explained what usually occurs with who shot who and where, etc.... I still have reasonable doubt.

If original documents or reports are wrong they have to be changed. Like I said in an earlier post, the two pilots on the Yamamoto mission both claimed that they were the ones who shot down Yamamoto. On that day two bombers were shot down. One crashed in the jungle and one in the sea. Yamamoto went down in the jungle but that wasn't known until after the war. Both pilots were given equal credit when only one should have. They were wrong.

The army had PLENTY of time to redo and get rid of documents and put more incriminating ones in its place. You are zinging the US Army but it was the US Army that provided all of the reports to the defense. Obviously it may just be enough to convince a jury.
 

EagleSmack

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Can you claim they are his? Is he directly working on them, or is that just his Timex watch needing new batteries? Parent's house perhaps and a family photograph? (Just being devil's advocate here of course)

From the sounds of his family it make be a typical Khadr family photograph. Just like my weapon belonged to the US Marines, these mines belonged to Al Queda. I still used my weapon though.




Coming from the guy in the country which has the right to bear arms? I've seen plenty of shots of people in the US showing off their firearms. None of these prove he killed the soldier he was blamed for, nor is there any connection towards anything he touched or worked on that has killed anybody. And honestly, if that was taken in Afghanistan... um.... it's Afghanistan, where I'm sure just about everybody and their grandmother has an AK.

I think we should look at the context. He wasn't out on a deer hunting trip in Manitoba.

Just because there are what appear to be land minds around him in one picture, doesn't mean he made them, or that they were used in any pacticular situation.

They were most likely made in the Soviet Union...but he is sure looking like he is fiddling with them...i.e arming them.



That's a picture of him smiling in the night, or someone that looks like him anyways.... I see no mines in this picture.

In fact, if that is supposed to be from the video in which I seen, it's not the same video in which I seen.... too many holes imo.

Honestly you guys would have been better off just shooting him when you got him and save yourselves this headache.... call it a misfire or something. Who would have known?

Well we did shoot him and if you go to Wiki you can see him. I am surprised he lived. That does not LOOK like his school picture either. What is funny is that I would think that some would say the other pictures aren't him and could have been anyone. Then upon seeing the pictures of him laying upon the ground with the grayest and dirtiest face the same ones would say...

"Look what you did to the poor boy."
 

dancing-loon

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Sorry, folks, I disappeared..... the internet was down, and I gave up finally.

I just see the latest news on Khadr...

A U.S. military judge ruled Friday that the American government must reveal the names and notes of those who interrogated Canadian Omar Khadr after his 2002 capture in Afghanistan.Judge grants Khadr defence request for details of interrogations

14/03/2008 4:51:21 PM

Let's wait and see what they will produce.

 

dancing-loon

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Loon, I don't care if he is innocent in the shooting of the soldier, that doesn't change my view of him, he was fighting for the emeny, hence he is a traitor. He wasn't in the wrong place at the wrong time, you don't just happen to be a in terrorist strong hold by accident.

No where did I state I supported the war, so you can shove your assumptions up your backside. I personally think we are wasting our valuable soldiers by being in that disgusting excuse for a country. Let the Afghans kill each other, they don't need our assistance.

Ask your self Loon, who are the kind of people that will suicide bomb a whole street just so they can kill one NATO soldier, killing dozen of their own in the process?, What kind of people justify killing by a phony religious book?

Make I ask where is your head? Besides the sand.
Get YOUR head out of the sand... you are barking up the wrong tree, Mr. DurkaDurka!!:lol:
Weez wer talkin bout te udder guy, te wunn in Germany!!!
 

dancing-loon

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Come on Loon...do you really believe he traveled to Afghanistan/Pakistan to learn more about Islamic Religion. Get your head out of the sand. Of all the places to learn about Islam why would he choose a place like that? Did you ever consider that he went to Afghanistan to fight? Or are you so hell bent on discrediting the US that you have convinced yourself that everyone of these captured fighters were actually peaceful islamic scholars or social workers.
It is none of your or my business to know why and where he went to learn about his faith... fact is that's what his intention was. Perhaps he knew someone there or had read about it or had no idea that's where a war was going on. The one fact known is that he had no connection to the Taliban or al Qaida. He was and is innocent.
Now, calm down again, Eagle.
 

dancing-loon

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Additional Info:

Khadr lawyer accuses U.S. of evidence tampering
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe.../khadr_pretrial_AM_080313/20080313?hub=Canada

by the way, his family's involvement in all this has been alleged, not proven.... yet again. Do some thinking of your own for a change and stop sheeping around.
Thank you, Praxius, for the very informative link. And,....I really appreciate you taking a firm stand for humanity and proper justice. Both are sorely lacking with the Americans as well as our two discussion partners, Eagle and Durka.
 

Colpy

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Thank you, Praxius, for the very informative link. And,....I really appreciate you taking a firm stand for humanity and proper justice. Both are sorely lacking with the Americans as well as our two discussion partners, Eagle and Durka.

What about me?!!!!!

I want him shot without trial, and I don't get ANY recognition?

GEEZ!

Talk about ungrateful........
 

dancing-loon

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It has not been proven that he is innocent. Far from it. That is why your head is in the sand. You only want to see what you want. You want to see a young innocent boy getting caught by the EVIL AMERICANS. He was involved, yes at 15, in the fighting in Afghanistan. His whole family is caught up in it.
We are talking about different boys! I meant Murat Kurnaz!!! Give me a signal when you change the subject, please!
American is the real enemy of humanity. Cut it out...another morally superior Canadian speaking.
Thank You, I'm glad you are seeing clearly now!
Perhaps you should one of these days get your FH examined!!
Are you serious? Afghanistan is now a place for an unhappy boy and girl to escape to? It is a much better environment? Afghanistan provides a happier surrounding? He was caught and wounded fighting US soldiers. He was involved with Al Queda.
We are talking about two different persons again!!!
With all that I STILL think he should be let go and invited back to live with Canadians. I hope you will take this sweet innocent boy into your home who has lost his childhood due to those nasty Americans. :roll:
You mean Omar? Sure, I would love to take him in if I could stomach it! God only knows what his mental state is like after all these years of solitude, degradation and torture. I sure would want to hug him, and let him know I wish I could make all his hurt go away.
What I find so hard to understand is that hardly anybody here feels compassion for him. He was a child!! I know what a 15 year-old is like! I imagine he felt honored at such young age to be already of service to his group. He was brave and daring and reckless with his own life, but he does not deserve to be tortured! PERIOD!!!!
 

dancing-loon

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Personally, I think the Americans charging him for "murder" in the middle of a war is ludicrous, hypocritical beyond belief......AND they should read their own Constitution........the Fifth Amendment of the Bill of Rights SPECIFICALLY bans military trials for anyone UNLESS they were serving in the US military at the time of the offense......

Can American lawyers not READ?!!!!!

Mind you, as a foreign combatant not wearing any uniform, he should have been turned over to the Afghans and immediately shot without trial.

Would have saved us all a lot of trouble.
Colpy, I know you deserve some praise, and I gladly mention that you impressed me with your first part of your post, but then you had to ruin it with your last part. So, one cancels the other... you get nothing!!!
:p
 

dancing-loon

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Globe essay: CHILD SOLDIERS AND THE LAW
Omar Khadr: A most peculiar young offender

He should be dealt with here in Canada, as a juvenile who was involved in terrorism
The civilized world condemns the recruitment of child soldiers. Yet Canada sits quietly by as one of its citizens, Omar Khadr, is prosecuted by the United States for war crimes he allegedly committed at age 15 as a member of al-Qaeda.

It is impossible to square. Al-Qaeda's recruitment of child soldiers is immoral and abusive; consequently, it is immoral and abusive to prosecute as a war criminal a child recruited by al-Qaeda, and punish him accordingly. We can't have it both ways.
Lately, it has dawned on Canadians that the United States may well have lied about its evidence against Mr. Khadr.

Far from having proof that only he could have thrown the grenade that killed their soldier, the U.S. appears to have hidden the truth: that the teenage Canadian was in the company of an adult al-Qaeda fighter and was himself unarmed, on his knees and facing away from battle when a U.S. soldier shot him twice — in the back.

But the falsehoods are only part of the reasons why Canadians let the 15-year-old disappear six years ago into the legal black hole of Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, in which he had no access to a lawyer for the first 27 months and no way to contest his detention. Canadians accepted that Mr. Khadr be held fully responsible for his actions. As if he were an adult.

The irony has never really penetrated Canadians' consciousness. Canada, the country of the liberal Youth Criminal Justice Act, is the only Western nation to give the United States carte blanche with one of its nationals at Guantanamo. Britain, Australia, Sweden and Germany fought to repatriate their nationals — adults, all of them. And Canada let a juvenile languish.

The reply from our government is but a single, vapid refrain: "Let the process work." But this is a process that, even apart from its other flaws, aims at punishing Omar Khadr for the accident of his birth in an al-Qaeda family.

Please, read the full article: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...alComment/home
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I'm very glad to see this in our National paper!! If only the power gang on Parliament Hill would read this and act upon it.
One thing I don't agree with is, that he still should be prosecuted as a juvenile. He has been punished far too much and far too long already. The US should be prosecuted and severely punished for torturing a child!
 
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givpeaceachance

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Please don't shoot me down for saying . . .

He was 15 years old. We know that alot of children are getting sucked into this mess. We shouldn't be treating these kids as though they are in complete control of what they are doing or that they even have any kind of real understanding of what they are getting themselves into. Imagine if the shoe was on the other foot and we were them and we were the ones who were being ' invaded ' by the U.S or any country for that matter. You know we would have tons of our own kids doing anything that they could because they felt that they needed to or simply to feel like they are doing something about it.

Imagine, especially, if we had adults luring our kids into violence because the adults were cowards and too afraid to blow themselves up or go out into the front lines to fight their own twisted battle.

As far as i'm concerned this kid is a pawn.

If anyone was serious about getting to the bottom of it, why don't they go after the sickos that lure the kids into it. I mean, if the U.S can find Hussein in a hole in the ground, why don't they just go and get the a-holes that are dragging children into it and water board them for answers?
 

Praxius

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Good post Peace.

Related Update:

Khadr's lawyers to ask top court for interrogation transcripts
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/03/26/khadr-lawyers.html

Lawyers of Omar Khadr will be in the Supreme Court of Canada Wednesday morning trying to get access to confidential federal government documents they claim are vital to his defence — including transcripts of interrogations by Canadian officials.

His lawyers will ask the top court to order Ottawa to hand over uncensored transcripts and videotapes of the interrogations of Khadr in 2003 at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. The court case stems from an appeal of an earlier federal court decision that ordered the Canadian government to release documents to Khadr's lawyers for use in his defence.

"This is information that Canada provided to the Americans which led to the possible and potential charges against Omar Khadr in Guantanamo Bay," Dennis Edney, a lawyer for Khadr, told CBC News. "And if this were in Canada, that very information would be required to be provided to an accused so he can get a fair trial."

His lawyers say he's entitled to the material because Canadian officials infringed the Charter of Rights when they interviewed him at Guantanamo Bay. They also hope the transcripts will provide evidence that Ottawa knew a Canadian citizen was being tortured and did nothing about it.

"We're saying that Canada has an obligation to provide those documents, and that obligation arises because it went to Guantanamo Bay when it was well known that this is a place beyond the rule of law. It took advantage of Omar Khadr," Edney said.

"We're saying that when you're a citizen abroad, you're not a second-class citizen."

Edney said that normally courts defer to laws of foreign countries, in this case the U.S. But Edney said they will argue there should be an exemption in Khadr's case. He said that allowing Canadian agents to go to Guantanamo Bay was a violation of domestic law, international law and human rights law.

Khadr, who is awaiting trial on murder and war crimes charges, was captured in Afghanistan in 2002 when he was 15 and has since been held at the U.S. military base.

In an affidavit filed with a U.S. military court, Khadr alleges U.S. military interrogators in Afghanistan threatened him with rape and treated him harshly, forcing him to make false and self-incriminating statements.

Canadians refused to help, Khadr says

He also claims that Canadian diplomats and intelligence officers who later questioned him at Guantanamo refused to help him.

Instead, he says in the affidavit, they questioned him about his father, Ahmed Said Khadr, who's been accused of being a founding member and financier of al-Qaeda.

Khadr says he was also interrogated about Maher Arar, the Canadian who was deported to a Syrian prison over alleged links to al-Qaeda. An inquiry later cleared Arar of any links to terrorist organizations. Khadr says he was also shown photographs of about 20 people and asked to identify them.

He says he ripped off his shirt and showed the Canadians his injuries. He also says he told them he had lied to his American interrogators and told them whatever they wanted to hear because he was scared and he wanted them to stop torturing him.

Khadr says they accused him of lying, and passed information from their interviews to U.S. officials.

Khadr's lawyers also want to use the hearing to argue the Americans are breaking international law by detaining him and planning to try him before a special military tribunal that doesn't measure up to accepted legal standards.

But the federal government says Khadr's demand for documents is a fishing expedition that could compromise sensitive intelligence information. Government lawyers also argue that a Canadian court is no place to pass judgment on U.S. detention and trial practices.
 

EagleSmack

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Get YOUR head out of the sand... you are barking up the wrong tree, Mr. DurkaDurka!!:lol:
Weez wer talkin bout te udder guy, te wunn in Germany!!!

No we weren't...the thread is about Khadar not some guy in Germany. Try to keep up.
 

EagleSmack

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Thank you, Praxius, for the very informative link. And,....I really appreciate you taking a firm stand for humanity and proper justice. Both are sorely lacking with the Americans as well as our two discussion partners, Eagle and Durka.

Your head isn't really screwed on straight is it? Humanity and justice...where has the likes of Omar's Al Queda and Taliban ever provided that? But hey...as long as they are fighting and in opposition to the US they are ok by you!

You deserve that sweet little boy shown in the pictures.
 

Praxius

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Your head isn't really screwed on straight is it? Humanity and justice...where has the likes of Omar's Al Queda and Taliban ever provided that? But hey...as long as they are fighting and in opposition to the US they are ok by you!

You deserve that sweet little boy shown in the pictures.

Speaking of heads not screwed on straight, you're still expressing the same mentality of Omar being 100% guilty of the acusations, when everyday that goes by, it's showing more and more that everything against him has been fabricated by the US military to make an example.

And the typical response of "Oh do they show humanity? Why Should we?"

#1 - They have indeed shown humanity and mercy, and many cases in point have been times when they released hostages. Those who were released say they've been treated well, fed, etc...... now we look at the US.... your kind. Capturing kids, shooting them twice in the back, contemplating killing him to make things easier, fabricated the reports, kept him in a hospital with crap medical treatment for 10 months, tortured the kid, threatened the kid with rape and being attacked by dogs..... apparently he can't even see very well anymore due to injuries at the hands of the US.

You tell me who shows more humanity. Do you guys even know what the hell that word even means anymore?

#2 - Stooping to their level, if that even was their level, isn't proving anything except your country's own limitations and ability to remove emotions from actual decision making. If the above is proven true that Canada also added to Omars situation in a false manner, then crap should be flying here as well over the matter.

#3 - Arar just went through the same crap.... he was supposed to be a Taliban Terrorist or whatever you want to label him as.... he was tortured and detained for months by you guys until he confessed to whatever your thugs wanted him to. He's been cleared of all the acusations, and he went after our government/RCMP for their involvement in what they did to his life and his family.

#4 - No matter how much emotion you want to fill into this subject towards some (at the time) 15 year old kid and where he was found and the charges against him..... there is still basic rights all humans deserve..... FFS Charles Manson got more rights then this kid, WTF is the logic in your country? Innocent until proven guilty, and it's looking like his guilty is flying out the window.
 

Sparrow

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Nov 12, 2006
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I have been reading all your posts very carefully, but have a question to ask.

Does anyone remember in the beginning it was reported that the family had gone to Afghanistan because they were supporters of el Qaeda, meaning the father which meant that the family followed. Also the father was killed fighting with el Qaeda. How many fathers have indoctrinated their sons to follow in their footsteps? Could it be the son is being held responsible for the sins of the father? Or could he have been at the wrong place at the wrong time because of his father.

There are too many unanswered questions and too much secrecy for us to get a clear picture. We do not have all the facts therefore anything put forward is speculation. All anyone can hope is that he gets a fair trial.