A challenge to our dear Christian friends.

[mt_pockets1000]

I think your motive for that question was in question, rather than to give an answer to it.

At least that was my thoughts on it.

But since you fessed up, I will give you my opinion on it.

I can assure you it was no test or trick question. It was legit. I don't go in for this trolling thing I see on these forums. Straight up and to the point. I did receive an email from my friend with that website attached. Whether you believe that or not is irrelevant. Like a lot of people in this world I struggle with the search for truth and honesty. Part of that search is questioning the validity of the bible.

Anyhoo, this website stumped me for awhile and my thoughts on god and the bible were put into doubt for a short time, until I found out the truth of the matter. What baffles me is how an intelligent, seemingly well adjusted individual like my friend can be swayed by such outright trickery and how some people like Wyatt have gone to great lengths to prove the bible stories true by presenting false evidence. What gives? :dontknow:

 

[look3467]

I don't think I understand you. In fact, I'm sure I don't understand you, and I never will until I've got you sitting across my kitchen table from me with a drink of your choice in your hand--beer, wine, scotch, tea, coffee, milk, water, whatever you like--so we can hammer a few things out. I think that'd be fun. I still probably won't understand you, but the fun is the trip, not the destination. >>>Dexter

If that day comes, I would surely enjoy it, and I’d drink to that to.

On the north side of me lives an ancient couple, well into their 80s, both veterans of the Second World War--he was a Lancaster pilot, she was a nurse--and I couldn't ask for better neighbours. He's got a heart condition, she's got some obscure slow-moving cancer. I don't mow their lawn, they've got some veteran's service that takes care of that for them, but I do clear the snow off their driveway and sidewalks. Their service will do that for them too, but it often takes a couple of days to get around to it, and in the meantime they're trapped in their house, and I worry about medical emergencies, so when I've got my snowblower out to clear off my driveway and sidewalks, I do theirs too. And every spring the old guy shows up at my door with a bottle of fine old scotch as a measure of thanks, because he knows that's what I like. >>>Dexter

You know Dexter; you didn’t have to say that about you, because I knew that already. Just by the character of your posts I can tell.
I’ve grown to respect you because there were times when some posters were right down rude, but you were composed, cool and very polite.

The test is not so much a test, but a situation where one has to learn to manage ones behavior given two complete opposites to choose from.

It all stems from the heart of the individual. Evil as well as good can be born there. The good part of both choices is the one that must tame, overcome the evil side, given that we were placed in an environment conducive to evil.

So, good then is a choice that you choose to do because it is in your heart to do so, regardless of beliefs.

Does god have anything to do with that? You'd probably say yes, this is some kind of test I'm passing. So far... But it seems like just elementary ethics to me: if someone needs help you can give, then you give it, and I don't see any role for a deity in that, that's just human nature. We're social animals, we help our friends and neighbors, that's how we've survived.>>>Dexter

Human nature?


Look back at human history. Has it been possible for humanity to have reached a state of utopia all on its own? (An ideal and perfect place or state where everyone lives in harmony and everything is for the best)

I don’t think so. If it were so, then by now, we would have reached that state.

Human nature is an earthen vessel with earthly fleshly desires that cater only to the flesh.

There must of necessity then be something that is within the flesh that is opposite, and of greater force, if allowed, to grow to manage the desires of the flesh.

That opposite is the heart, and the heart is not one that pumps blood, but one that is a spirit heart, which is of God.

That heart is where goodness is born, that heart is what gives you the motivation to plow the snow off the neighbors walk ways.

That heart is the one that tells the lazy flesh, “do it, help thy neighbor”.

You have that God spirit heart in you, even though you may not want to recognize it, but I can see it!

Peace>>>AJ

 

[look3467]

I can assure you it was no test or trick question. It was legit. I don't go in for this trolling thing I see on these forums. Straight up and to the point. I did receive an email from my friend with that website attached. Whether you believe that or not is irrelevant. Like a lot of people in this world I struggle with the search for truth and honesty. Part of that search is questioning the validity of the bible. >>> mt_pockets1000

An I would encourage anyone and everyone to do so to, for in so doing would either find the truth of God or not.

Anyhoo, this website stumped me for awhile and my thoughts on god and the bible were put into doubt for a short time, until I found out the truth of the matter. What baffles me is how an intelligent, seemingly well adjusted individual like my friend can be swayed by such outright trickery and how some people like Wyatt have gone to great lengths to prove the bible stories true by presenting false evidence. What gives? >>> mt_pockets1000

I to wonder about some proclaimed Christians, how easily they could be brain washed into believing some thing new.
Case in point was a young Sunday school teacher who thought Sunday school for quite a few years, only to wind up death in Guyana Africa in that Jim Jones massacre.

Religion, though wonderful for many, can also be deadly, if religion is used as a vehicle to do evil.

I neither believe anyone individual nor lean on any professed Christian to show me the way, but Jesus and His word guided by the Holy Spirit of revelation in me.
Yes, I listen to many, but unless it is confirmed in me by the Holy Spirit and by His word, I believe it not.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[MHz]

I don't think I understand you. In fact, I'm sure I don't understand you, and I never will until I've got you sitting across my kitchen table from me with a drink of your choice in your hand--beer, wine, scotch, tea, coffee, milk, water, whatever you like--so we can hammer a few things out. I think that'd be fun. I still probably won't understand you, but the fun is the trip, not the destination.

You might be better off doing mushrooms if you are going to take a trip through Scripture with him, I don't even relate to his opinion of what most verses are meant to mean that has a hope of being understood, like being across from somebody. Scripture is meant to be read at the same rate those words could be read. Unfortunately we do not have the opportunity to have those writers sitting across from us. That would make the 'rebuttals' and 'questions' also flow as fast as a normal conversation would.

Just how long would the conversation last after mixing one of those drinks with those 7+ things you listed, I'm pretty sure some of them should not even be combined under any circumstances. LOL Look is kind of like an Enochian type of Christian. 300 years of cruising the heaves with (admittedly pretty impressive beings) probably had his relatives taking care of the day-to-day things. No offense Look but somethings in Scripture are meant to be understood in full as soon as it has been read.
You guys could use a normal telephone, long distance is cheap.

On the north side of me lives an ancient couple, well into their 80s, both veterans of the Second World War--he was a Lancaster pilot, she was a nurse--and I couldn't ask for better neighbours. He's got a heart condition, she's got some obscure slow-moving cancer. I don't mow their lawn, they've got some veteran's service that takes care of that for them, but I do clear the snow off their driveway and sidewalks. Their service will do that for them too, but it often takes a couple of days to get around to it, and in the meantime they're trapped in their house, and I worry about medical emergencies, so when I've got my snowblower out to clear off my driveway and sidewalks, I do theirs too. And every spring the old guy shows up at my door with a bottle of fine old scotch as a measure of thanks, because he knows that's what I like.

Snowblower?? and you don't do the whole block??? (the mail-person)
You should visit, a search for apple cider vinegar, hydrogen peroxide, and MMS might make some interesting reading for a battle-field nurse.
http://www.earthclinic.com/index.html

Does god have anything to do with that? You'd probably say yes, this is some kind of test I'm passing. So far... :smile: But it seems like just elementary ethics to me: if someone needs help you can give, then you give it, and I don't see any role for a deity in that, that's just human nature. We're social animals, we help our friends and neighbours, that's how we've survived.

The deviation that Scripture takes with that is a stranger is just as important as a friend of neighbor.

Are you taking 'when things go wrong' into account? Even if a group is at the point of starvation, turning a person away might just prolong the inevitable. At least with sharing you can more or less go as a group and you all get to talk about how much starving sucks,

 

[Dexter Sinister]

You might be better off doing mushrooms if you are going to take a trip through Scripture with him...

I think you underestimate him. Personally I find Scripture so inconsistent and confounding that I welcome anybody's insights on what it might mean. Doesn't mean I'll buy his explanations, and it should be obvious that for the most part I don't, but he's obviously not stupid and he's always challenging. That's a good enough reason to keep up the conversation.

Snowblower?? and you don't do the whole block???

Nope. Most houses on the block have able-bodied people less than half my age in them, with their own snowblowers. They don't need help.

The deviation that Scripture takes with that is a stranger is just as important as a friend of neighbor.

Agreed. Ever been to a Jewish Seder celebration? I go to one every year, at the home of my best friend. The ritual involves repeated reminders to take care of the stranger among you, to care for the widowed, the elderly, the young, the unfortunate, always ending with the reminder, "for you too were once strangers in the land of Egypt." Even stripped of its religious content, it's a moving and powerful celebration of what is best in human nature: endurance in the face of incredible adversity, and caring and concern for your fellows in spite of the worst the world can do to you. Interestingly, he's an atheist too, he's a Jew only culturally, and we've talked about it enough that it's clear that he understands the ritual the same way I do. And he gives the lie to the stereotype: he and his wife are the most generous and giving and welcoming people I've ever met.

Are you taking 'when things go wrong' into account?

Frankly, I don't know. Things have never gone wrong badly enough in my life that I had to think seriously about that. That's kind of the "fallout shelter" question: you're in a shelter with your family with enough food and water to last until the radioactivity dies down enough to enable you to survive outside again, and somebody comes to the door... Letting him in reduces your chances of survival, so what do you do? I don't know what I'd do, and I hope I never have to make such a choice.

 

[look3467]

MHz,

Well, all is I can say, is that you will have to judge for yourself, as I have about the views which I now have.

I am fully aware of your point of view because I’ve been there. But you haven’t been where I am, therefore, it is strange and foreign thing to for you and hard to understand.

But, if you stop and think about some of the things I say, you will find that some of it will ring a note of truth in it, not know maybe, but later on perhaps.

The book of Revelation was to me a book hard to understand, which is to many, but not now, for I can see clearly what transpired on that dreadful day.

If spiritual time span could be broken so as to divide one time span from another, or say end the first and begin a second; that divide was accomplished in one day.

Physical earth time has not changed, but spiritual time has.

The old time consisted of dead sprits though living, simply because mankind was doomed from the very start, cursed if you will.

Of necessity, it had to be that way in order for mankind to have the freedom to have choice, as a gift.

The gift was not a gift until spiritual death was eliminated. In other words, though mankind could have choice, the gift of choice, death would end it spiritually, and life would have just been an experience without any hope for life after. (No value)

But the gift came at a predetermined time in mankind’s history to annul the agreement with death, and gift life!

So life then is a gift, as the dead spirit is revived, or born again.

If, you can see that picture to include all mankind, not just a few believers, but all unbelievers as well, then you will begin to see how wonderful the “Good News” is to all mankind.

Again, if you can see that clearly, then all the rest of the bible then becomes a book of instructions, on how to live rightly.

If, you knew only two commandments, and understood them to what each one means, then that is all you need.

The rest of the bible just details mankind’s struggle to attain something for which they were not equipped to attain, save God does it for them.

Perhaps this is too strange for your ears and should rather just do mushrooms, because, you might run the risk of losing your perspective of God.

My concern only is to share what I know and understand, after that, you make a judgment.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[look3467]

Ever been to a Jewish Seder celebration?>>>Dexter

"why is this night different from all other nights?” quote from Judaism 101.

The assumption is that everything is the same or confusing, because of lack of knowledge, so why this one night be any different?

What is the point of the question? The point is that it should be asked so as to teach, to show that not all things are the same, but that there is a difference, that God is different and respect for that difference is what that night is set aside for.

The whole exodus experience is to show the bondage that mankind was in, and the freedom from that bondage became the deliverance.

Similarly, mankind as a whole is experiencing a spiritual bondage as its spirit is held captive to death, (symbolized by Egypt) and the wilderness (life’s struggles) is the experience of getting out (Deliverance)from that bondage and into the promised land. (Rebirth of one’s spirit)

Jesus is a similitude of Moses, the deliverer, but Jesus is not limited to one nation of people, but encompasses the whole, so that no one soul be left out.

The whole bible is about just that, mankinds deliverance by God.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[MHz]

I think you underestimate him. Personally I find Scripture so inconsistent and confounding that I welcome anybody's insights on what it might mean. Doesn't mean I'll buy his explanations, and it should be obvious that for the most part I don't, but he's obviously not stupid and he's always challenging. That's a good enough reason to keep up the conversation.

I wasn't trying to demean AJ. Nor is it a knee-jerk reaction from 'having my theory attacked'. The 'spiritual vs literal' does have some fairly major impact on some things that are said to be going to happen, just as written.
The verses about how physical resurrection takes place and the Dead Sea being made into fresh water are two things that pop into mind.
I agree with him about Jonah, not from what the book of Jonah says but because of what Jesus said, no other sign given to that generation other than the sign of Jonah, being in the grave. The actual book of Jonah does carry more information than just that one point.

Frankly, I don't know. Things have never gone wrong badly enough in my life that I had to think seriously about that. That's kind of the "fallout shelter" question: you're in a shelter with your family with enough food and water to last until the radioactivity dies down enough to enable you to survive outside again, and somebody comes to the door... Letting him in reduces your chances of survival, so what do you do? I don't know what I'd do, and I hope I never have to make such a choice.

If the event is prophecy unfolding shelters and stockpiles might not help. Salvation would then be dependent on ones ability to have such things. Christ doesn't work that way, if he wants a poor one to live through to witness His arrival that is what will happen. Nor are groups saved, it is a one-by-one basis, so no one area is any safer than anyplace else, nor would standing next to all the OT Prophets be of any help, if you aren't meant to be there you won't be. The time for those is a little later in the program.

Should you try to be prepared for just the lights (or whatever) going out, certainly. A shutdown of ATM's could mess up some people worse than a purely physical calamity.

Do either you or AJ want to take a stab at these verses?

Zec:6:1: And I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came four chariots out from between two mountains; and the mountains were mountains of brass.
Zec:6:2: In the first chariot were red horses; and in the second chariot black horses;
Zec:6:3: And in the third chariot white horses; and in the fourth chariot grisled and bay horses.
Zec:6:4: Then I answered and said unto the angel that talked with me, What are these, my lord?
Zec:6:5: And the angel answered and said unto me, These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth.
Zec:6:6: The black horses which are therein go forth into the north country; and the white go forth after them; and the grisled go forth toward the south country.
Zec:6:7: And the bay went forth, and sought to go that they might walk to and fro through the earth: and he said, Get you hence, walk to and fro through the earth. So they walked to and fro through the earth.

 

[mrgrumpy]

So, grump,

you were once a practising, even devout Catholic,

so what changed, or to be more precise,

what changed you ?

My respect for the real. When I was a fully brainwashed religionist, it was almost like living a bad dream; all the fairy tales, magic, angels and devils, the Unseen God who knows what you're going to do, the neo-cannabalism of the eucharistic myths of the Holy Roman Catholic Church,hypocrisy of organized religion , the all knowing God who supposedley knows what you think,the catechism that teaches thinking sinful thoughts is the same as committing them, God's representatives on earth turning out to be gold diggers, pederasts or outright liars. What a load of garbage.

We ought to make legislation to outlaw child abuse as it concerns the teaching of nonsensical myths and brainwashing of children.

That "God" so many worship is nothing more than a silly figment of imagination, wishful thinking, legend, and brain washing.

And all the silly scrptural texts being thrown about on this thread prove nothing more than some folks would rather live fairy tales than real lives.

Sad.

 

[look3467]

Do either you or AJ want to take a stab at these verses?

Zec:6:1: And I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came four chariots out from between two mountains; and the mountains were mountains of brass.
Zec:6:2: In the first chariot were red horses; and in the second chariot black horses;
Zec:6:3: And in the third chariot white horses; and in the fourth chariot grisled and bay horses.
Zec:6:4: Then I answered and said unto the angel that talked with me, What are these, my lord?
Zec:6:5: And the angel answered and said unto me, These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth.
Zec:6:6: The black horses which are therein go forth into the north country; and the white go forth after them; and the grisled go forth toward the south country.
Zec:6:7: And the bay went forth, and sought to go that they might walk to and fro through the earth: and he said, Get you hence, walk to and fro through the earth. So they walked to and fro through the earth.>>>MHz

There are other verses in the bible which give light to these by way of explanation.
I will use the 7-day creation to formulate a picture of those verses.

You may not understand readily what I will explain, but perhaps one day, it might.

Verse 1. Zec:6:1: And I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came four chariots out from between two mountains; and the mountains were mountains of brass.


It is using symbols to paint a picture. There is the number 4 and 2 plus the word brass.

The day Jesus died is divided into 4 quarters, and into 2 halves and into one 24 hour day.
If you add them all you will get 7.

If we look at 3 separate pictures of that same day, the first is divided by 4, the second is divided by 2 and the 3rd picture is a whole 24.

In that verse in question, we are looking at the second picture with 2 halves of brass.

Now brass is a symbol seen of earth as well as heaven. Example: As I turned (means looking back to a point in time, a day) and see the second day as Jesus changes from one to the other: Note the change in the next verse.

LEV 26:19 ""And I will break the pride of your power; and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass:"" (Meaning exchanging places)

DEU 28:23 ""And thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron.""

ZEC 6:2 In the first chariot were red horses; and in the second chariot black horses;

This is out of order (Revelation 6:2 to 8 )if looked at as the first picture which is 1=white, 2=red, 3=black 4=pale horses. But this is looking at the second picture so he starts by looking at the second horse which is the red horse, then at the third which is the black horse seen here as the second of two halves.


Zec:6:3: And in the third chariot white horses; and in the fourth chariot grisled and bay horses.

The third horse is not white but black and the fourth horse is pale, so the third picture, is saying “grisled and bay horses” are the three pictures combined as one.


ZEC 6:4 Then I answered and said unto the angel that talked with me, What are these, my lord?
ZEC 6:5 And the angel answered and said unto me, These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth.
The four spirits of heaven is the total of three pictures then seen together. The first picture as 4 6-hour periods is 1=old heaven, 2=old earth, 3=new earth, 4=new heaven.

ZEC 6:6 The black horses which are therein go forth into the north country; and the white go forth after them; and the grisled go forth toward the south country.
The black horses are the third time period which is the judgment, the north country is likened to heaven, the judgments have reached unto heaven, the white is the first time period from sunset to midnight and is the law as Jesus spoke what he would do, this also follows the judgment to heaven, south is hell and the grisled is Jesus going into hell. God with the judgment and law has turned his back on Jesus.


ZEC 6:7 And the bay went forth, and sought to go that they might walk to and fro through the earth: and he said, Get you hence, walk to and fro through the earth. So they walked to and fro through the earth.
Going into hell is walking to and fro in the earth. The tribe of Judah is seen as a goodly battle horse, these are the children of the kingdom cast out with Jesus, so the "get thee hence" is out of god's eyesight.

Jesus leaving heaven, is fallen to earth and is pictured in 3 pictures of the 7 day week, each divided to show what transpired in each picture as a day, as one day He recreates the new heaven and the new earth.

That’s how you decipher these symbolic verses with other verses elsewhere in the bible which give light to each other.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[look3467]

My respect for the real. When I was a fully brainwashed religionist, it was almost like living a bad dream; all the fairy tales, magic, angels and devils, the Unseen God who knows what you're going to do, the neo-cannabalism of the eucharistic myths of the Holy Roman Catholic Church,hypocrisy of organized religion , the all knowing God who supposedley knows what you think,the catechism that teaches thinking sinful thoughts is the same as committing them, God's representatives on earth turning out to be gold diggers, pederasts or outright liars. What a load of garbage.

We ought to make legislation to outlaw child abuse as it concerns the teaching of nonsensical myths and brainwashing of children.

That "God" so many worship is nothing more than a silly figment of imagination, wishful thinking, legend, and brain washing.

And all the silly scrptural texts being thrown about on this thread prove nothing more than some folks would rather live fairy tales than real lives.

Sad.

I am not offended! But you are!

Peace>>>AJ

 

[mrgrumpy]

Yes I am offended.

By stupidity. And all the suffering visited on mankind by the practices of religionists following the dictates of their "God".

Some time in the future mankind may look back at this shameful wickedness and , embarrased, ask, "How could we have been so ignorant?"

 

[MHz]

We ought to make legislation to outlaw child abuse as it concerns the teaching of nonsensical myths and brainwashing of children.

My aren't you in Church early today.
Wasn't the scandal in Canada over the mistreatment of the children of native North Americans actually sanctioned by the Government? The RCC who ran the 'schools' wouldn't have had any stolen children to mistreat had it not been for the Gov.
That "God" so many worship is nothing more than a silly figment of imagination, wishful thinking, legend, and brain washing.

And all the silly scrptural texts being thrown about on this thread prove nothing more than some folks would rather live fairy tales than real lives.

Do you ever read science-fiction or see a 'fictional' movie? Is your life any less real after? What would seem to be 'silly' is a comparison between what the RCC teaches as being accurate and what Scripture actually says. In that respect you were right to step away from the RCC and ditch what they promote as truth about God. What you may not have followed up on is reading the verses that would put Scripture as agreeing with you. The RCC may have branded you a Heritic for going against their 'teachings' but the actual way Scripture is written puts you as a champion for accuracy in truth. How ironic would you say that is?

 

[MHz]

There are other verses in the bible which give light to these by way of explanation.
I will use the 7-day creation to formulate a picture of those verses.

You may not understand readily what I will explain, but perhaps one day, it might.

Verse 1. Zec:6:1: And I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came four chariots out from between two mountains; and the mountains were mountains of brass.


It is using symbols to paint a picture. There is the number 4 and 2 plus the word brass.

The day Jesus died is divided into 4 quarters, and into 2 halves and into one 24 hour day.
If you add them all you will get 7.

If we look at 3 separate pictures of that same day, the first is divided by 4, the second is divided by 2 and the 3rd picture is a whole 24.

In that verse in question, we are looking at the second picture with 2 halves of brass.

Now brass is a symbol seen of earth as well as heaven. Example: As I turned (means looking back to a point in time, a day) and see the second day as Jesus changes from one to the other: Note the change in the next verse.

LEV 26:19 ""And I will break the pride of your power; and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass:"" (Meaning exchanging places)

DEU 28:23 ""And thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron.""

ZEC 6:2 In the first chariot were red horses; and in the second chariot black horses;

This is out of order (Revelation 6:2 to 8 )if looked at as the first picture which is 1=white, 2=red, 3=black 4=pale horses. But this is looking at the second picture so he starts by looking at the second horse which is the red horse, then at the third which is the black horse seen here as the second of two halves.


Zec:6:3: And in the third chariot white horses; and in the fourth chariot grisled and bay horses.

The third horse is not white but black and the fourth horse is pale, so the third picture, is saying “grisled and bay horses” are the three pictures combined as one.


ZEC 6:4 Then I answered and said unto the angel that talked with me, What are these, my lord?
ZEC 6:5 And the angel answered and said unto me, These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth.
The four spirits of heaven is the total of three pictures then seen together. The first picture as 4 6-hour periods is 1=old heaven, 2=old earth, 3=new earth, 4=new heaven.

ZEC 6:6 The black horses which are therein go forth into the north country; and the white go forth after them; and the grisled go forth toward the south country.
The black horses are the third time period which is the judgment, the north country is likened to heaven, the judgments have reached unto heaven, the white is the first time period from sunset to midnight and is the law as Jesus spoke what he would do, this also follows the judgment to heaven, south is hell and the grisled is Jesus going into hell. God with the judgment and law has turned his back on Jesus.


ZEC 6:7 And the bay went forth, and sought to go that they might walk to and fro through the earth: and he said, Get you hence, walk to and fro through the earth. So they walked to and fro through the earth.
Going into hell is walking to and fro in the earth. The tribe of Judah is seen as a goodly battle horse, these are the children of the kingdom cast out with Jesus, so the "get thee hence" is out of god's eyesight.

Jesus leaving heaven, is fallen to earth and is pictured in 3 pictures of the 7 day week, each divided to show what transpired in each picture as a day, as one day He recreates the new heaven and the new earth.

That’s how you decipher these symbolic verses with other verses elsewhere in the bible which give light to each other.

Peace>>>AJ

Why are the horses said to be 'in the chariots'?

Wouldn't these 4 spirits of Heaven be more in line with the ones mentioned in this verse, rather the the 4 horses of the seals, riders and no chariots?

Re:7:1: And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
Re:7:2: And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
Re:7:3: Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

In my post to Dex I mentioned a few passages that, if taken literally, point to some events taking place. The end-times have Satan acting with much 'seeable' power, so much that it comes close to deceiving the very elect. One will come saying he is the returned Christ. Since it is only Christ who could do those two things, literally, is that a 'protection' God gave us so we would not be deceived? Those are two things that will be done as soon as He has returned. If there is no fishing done today in the Dead Sea then Christ has not returned, no matter how many say modern-day Israel is proof that Christ has returned and is their protector.

 

[mrgrumpy]

That the government conspired to assist the churches in their torture of children is indicative only of the government being contaminated by so many christian types in the first place.

The contamination of society by religionists spreads to all levels.

 

[mrgrumpy]

MHz

What are you doing pounding away on a keyboard on the SABBATH??

Why aren't you in church, or at least stoning unruly children or adulterers as your Lord has instructed??

I am disappointed in you. tsk tsk.

 

[MHz]

That the government conspired to assist the churches in their torture of children is indicative only of the government being contaminated by so many christian types in the first place.

The contamination of society by religionists spreads to all levels.

You're sure it isn't the other way around? It would seem that profiteers have been around for a very long time. The ones that Governments came from were merchants, driven by collecting material things, including land, all in the names of 'riches'. It would also seem that a sword trumps a book of words if fear of death is applied.

Why aren't you in church, or at least stoning unruly children or adulterers as your Lord has instructed??

I am disappointed in you. tsk tsk.

Sounds like work on the Sabbath. The unruly children are all in their own houses.

The RCC probably has some pretty good insight on a 'a need for clarification' in the issue of adultery.

Say you got married and then got divorced before you heard of the Bible's view on these matters. Scripture says that once divorced you can't marry again, am I exempt from that because I wasn't under that definition when I got divorced?
Is the Bible giving permission to approach a woman you find attractive and 'confessing' that to her so that sin has forgiveness?
If she has a husband do you confess that sin to him? She may just have a twin he could introduce you to.

Who would you go to get the check-boxes on Govt forms, that have divorce for one choice of martial status, grayed out after a certain time? The Church or the State?

 

[look3467]

Yes I am offended.

By stupidity. And all the suffering visited on mankind by the practices of religionists following the dictates of their "God".

Some time in the future mankind may look back at this shameful wickedness and , embarrassed, ask, "How could we have been so ignorant?"

I am going to grant you a gold star, because of the correct word used to identify what ails mankind:........................... stupidity.

But not stupid because of God, but stupid because of the desires of the flesh.


God provided the playing field (Earth) and all its obstacles (Desires of the flesh) in the playing field.
But on top of that He gave us and element of a spiritual desire that causes us to seek out Him with whatever knowledge we have at the time.

Consider the sorts of gods created by mankind for worship and adoration throughout its history and you will see that there lies a desire for the spiritual within each soul.

But knowledge of God was not always available to mankind, so mankind adapted to a god with what ever knowledge was available at those times.

The problem with all of that, is that mankind is not to blame until....... the knowledge of the real God is made available to us.

Which it has, but, because the flesh is what it is, that knowledge is used by mankind's stupidity, if you will, to have power and control of the people.

Now that is mankind's fault, not Gods.

Jesus demonstrated a completely different nature to that of mankind, a Godly nature, a nature of love, which is not a means of control, but which tugs at the strings of the heart, and causes one to "want" rather than force one to do what is right.

You win someones heart, and you have in your midst a loyal friend. One that need not be forced to be your friend, but one who "wants" to be your friend.

That is Gods nature, for Him to desire our heart, for He has given us everything in the world to experience at His cost, for truly, He in Jesus hath paid the price for our privilege of living in the flesh and yet, not hold us accountable for the death of the spirit.

He hath predestined us to glory after this earthly experience.

But suffering is an element of learning. No pain, no gain the saying goes.

How we react to our sufferings, determine the degree of spiritual growth in us.

If blame is all we have for all of it, then it is safely determined that something in us is dastardly lacking, and in need of love, and forgiveness in order for that soul to have a vent to find Godly peace.

Why suppose I am not offended at any body's remarks? I've got that Godly peace in me which gives me understanding that only love can endure.

And love, believe it or not, is of God!

Peace>>>AJ

 

[mrgrumpy]

I am going to grant you a gold star, because of the correct word used to identify what ails mankind:........................... stupidity.



"Consider the sorts of gods created by mankind "

Thanks for the gold star. I shall treasure it always.

"If god did not exist it would be necessary to invent him."
Voltaire

And so we have.

 

[mrgrumpy]

"It shall yet be the boast of women that they contributed not a single line of the Holy Bible".
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