The Asteroid 2007 WD5 will not impact Mars.

[eanassir]

Velikovsky was wrong.

There is mixing of myths and legends with science fiction, atheistic theories and false religious traditions (because of some fabrication due to the enthusiasm),

as opposed to the true pure authentic word of God in the Quran.

About Velikovsky, his theories are imaginary, more like the science fiction; although he tries to explain some religious events by some cosmic events, but his explanation is not realistic.

This is not like the anticipation of the Quranic revelations about many events that will take place in the future, and how God punished the past nations when they associated and became idolaters by earthquakes, and meteoritic rocks and threatened them with comets and other kinds of punishment.

Example: the standstill of the sun, (in the time of Joshua after Moses); this is a fabricated story and not logical: The sun is more than million times bigger than the earth; how can it stop? Or how can the earth stop its axial rotation for one hour then complete its movement again? This is obviously wrong. This had come through the enthusiasm about Joshua and his tremendous and glorious victories. If this was true, then the entire Earth globe would have seen this event, which is a lie.

The same story is repeated in a way of the enthusiasm in the Islam about Imam Ali – peace be on him. In the enthusiastic story (which is certainly not in the Glorious Quran, but some narrated fabricated tradition, because of the enthusiasm concerning his person):

Once, in his campaigns, he came to the land of Babylon ruins; the afternoon prayer was due; he did not pray; he said it is not allowed that ? I? should pray here where God's wrath had been kindled on this land, but ? you ? other Muslims may pray; then he marched forwards until he was away from this cursed land, but then the sun had set; but nevertheless he addressed the sun: I am Imam Ali, return back that I may pray to God! The sun returned with a creaking sound and said to him: Peace be to you, the prince of believers! But of course this story is not in the Quran.

Another false tradition, which is a misinterpretation of the Quran, is that the idolaters of Mecca demanded from Mohammed that he should split the moon into two halves, so that then they might believe, or else they would not believe. So the moon was cleft into two halves, but when they saw that they said: this is only magic.

But this is false interpretation: how can the moon be split in such a way? Is it a small disc as it appears? It is a big object of course, and if this had happened then all mankind all over the world would have seen such splitting of the moon.

The true explanation is as follows:​

"God -be exalted - said in the Quran, 54: 1-2

اقْتَرَبَتْ السَّاعَةُ وَانْشَقَّ الْقَمَرُ(1)وَإِنْ يَرَوْا آيَةً يُعْرِضُوا وَيَقُولُوا سِحْرٌ مُسْتَمِرٌّ(2)​

The explanation1- The hour [of their death] has become imminent, and the moon split [and detached from the earth in the past, and will split into two halves in the future, just before Doomsday.]
2-Yet if they see a sign, they will turn away, and keep up saying, ‘ [the Quran is] a magic!’)

The reason for revealing this aya of the Quran, was that Quraish, the tribe of Prophet Mohammed - Peace be on him – laughed and mocked at Mohammed and said to him: “If, really, you are a prophet, then cleave the moon apart into two halves. Only in case you do that we shall believe you!” Therefore, this aya of the Quran was revealed; its interpretation is:

• ( The hour [of their death] has become imminent) means: the hour of their death has approached and become very near; and We shall punish them for their stubbornness and mocking.
• ( and the moon split [and detached from the earth in the past, and will split into two halves in the future, just before Doomsday.] ) means: the moon had cleft and parted from the Earth in the past, i.e. detached from it, and it will also cleave when Doomsday is nearby.
• (Yet if they see a sign, they will turn away, and keep up saying, ‘ [the Quran is] a magic!’) means: If We show them, nowadays, one of Our manifest signs [or miracles] like the cleavage of the moon, or the other signs which they have demanded, and they see it with their own eyes, then after all, they will not believe in you, Mohammed, because of their stubbornness, but on the contrary, they will go astray of you, and will say: it [: the Quran] is merely a magic, and will go on saying that the Quran is a magic."

The Fission of Moon into two halves
http://universeandquran.741.com/new_page_4.htm#FissionofMoon

eanassir

http://universeandquran.741.com​

 

[eanassir]

What, for instance, does al-Hilly, and by extension eanassir, say about mass extinctions? There have been five major ones that we know of, in which at least 50% of species disappeared, and at least nine minor ones. They mark the boundaries between the divisions on the geological time scale. The most recent major one, at the end of the Cretaceous 65 million years ago, was due to a meteorite impact, the others seem to be due to global climate change. The worst one by far was the one that ended the Permian about 250 million years ago; something like 90% of species snuffed it in that one, and it's strongly associated with markers in the fossil record indicating a sudden, very large increase in greenhouse gases to over twice today's levels. There is powerful evidence that at various times in the last 500 million years the earth has been almost entirely glaciated, and almost entirely tropical. Name me a mystical magical thinker who predicted that.

Were such stages, estimated as hundreds of million years, before or after the appearance of man on earth?

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Were such stages, estimated as hundreds of million years, before or after the appearance of man on earth?

Long before, millions of years before. Humans have been here for only a few hundred thousand years and the planet's about 4.5 billion years old. That's billion as in the North American usage, a thousand million, not the European usage of a million million.

 

[eanassir]

Long before, millions of years before. Humans have been here for only a few hundred thousand years and the planet's about 4.5 billion years old. That's billion as in the North American usage, a thousand million, not the European usage of a million million.

The creation time intervals:
​

• The solar system elementary formation: formation of the planets and all the moons and meteorites that are between the planets. This lasted 6 000 years.

This is in the Quran 25: 59

الَّذِي خَلَقَ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ وَمَا بَيْنَهُمَا فِي سِتَّةِ أَيَّام ...ٍ ​

The explanation: ([God] Who created the heavens and the earth and what [moons] between them are, in six days …)

Each day equals one thousand years; as in another Quranic revelation.
The creation, here, means the transformation from one state to another.

Intermingled within this period are:

>>The formation of the distinct layers of the gaseous layers or stratified gaseous heavens (seven layers extending above the region of the cloud) – the Stratosphere. This lasted 2 000 years.
>>The earth became cold and had a cold crust, i.e. transformed into an earth after being a sun. This lasted 2 000 years.
>>The falling of the mountains down upon the earth, and they settled on it, and the crust increased in thickness. This lasted 4 000 years.
​

• From the creation and formation of the earth till the creation of man: I don't know how long it lasted. [It means those stages that you mentioned fall within this period.]

​

• The creation of mankind almost started since about 50 000 years;

during which the angels started coming down bringing the revelation to the prophets and messengers, then ascending to heaven; because when man was created there should be the revelation of God's commandment, so that there may be the punishment and reward, or else no judgment could be done.
This is in the Quran 70: 4​

تَعْرُجُ الْمَلَائِكَةُ وَالرُّوحُ إِلَيْهِ فِي يَوْمٍ كَانَ مِقْدَارُهُ خَمْسِينَ أَلْفَ سَنَةٍ​

The explanation: ([Whereby] the angels and [Gabriel] the Spirit ascend to Him in a Day the measure whereof is [to unbelievers as] fifty thousand years.)

The life span of man before the deluge of Noah, was several hundreds of years, while after the deluge the life span of man has become several tens of years.

Noah lived 950 years.[his people also lived hundreds of years.]
Abraham lived ?120 or 180 years.
Moses lived 120 years.
Mohammed lived 63 years.

It means the earth has slowed in its rotation around itself, and the day become longer than before.
All such statements are confirmed by many Quranic revelations.


eanassir
http://universeandquran.741.com​

 

[darkbeaver]

We call it Andem Ghraib.

Are you insinuating that Andem is an international criminal wanted for crimes against humanity. That's not very funny Kreskin. Do you know any Guantanamo jokes? I know lots of 911 jokes we could swap psycologically implanted propaganda all day. Hey, I dare you to use Treblinka in a joke. If Andem dosen't mind being associated with Abu-Ghraib I can't see that he'll mind being associated with Dachow or some other death camp. Afterall it would just be funny right? It always amazes me what desenceitization through mass media has accomplised.;-)

 

[darkbeaver]

Or a paranoid...

I don't think you're qualified to make an assessment like that Dexter. Why not try addressing the subject matter in an adult manner. You are hardly the final arbiter of reality Dexter, and niether is science, which afterall is only a technocratic substitute for religion not to be confused with a completed blueprint for humanity or the universe. I needn't mention the endless list of failed technocrats.
Back to the thread. So you believe that Velikovsky was a complete charlitan then? Humans have been here for a very long time and with very high civilization and technology.

 

[eanassir]

Oh look, it's a bird no it's a plane----------------------splat ka-boom---- mushrooms anyone?

Darkbeaver,
So there is a lot of jokes. We know Abu-Gharib. what is this Adnem?

 

[Dexter Sinister]

I don't think you're qualified to make an assessment like that Dexter. Why not try addressing the subject matter in an adult manner.

You're not in a strong position to object. Take it the same way you claimed I should take your dinosaur cartoon.

So you believe that Velikovsky was a complete charlitan then?

The hallmark of a charlatan is a deliberate attempt to deceive, and Velikovsky believed he was right, so no, he wasn't a charlatan. He was just wrong. Anybody who reads Worlds in Collision and thinks Velikovsky was on to something is simply revealing scientific illiteracy.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

All such statements are confirmed by many Quranic revelations.

Religious revelation is not the way to get scientific data, and arguments from authority aren't worth anything. The Quran may indeed confirm all your claims; science contradicts most of them, and given the history of religion and science, science seems more likely to be right.

 

[darkbeaver]

Darkbeaver,
So there is a lot of jokes. We know Abu-Gharib. what is this Adnem?

Nice guy, agent for the site.

 

[eanassir]

Religious revelation is not the way to get scientific data, and arguments from authority aren't worth anything. The Quran may indeed confirm all your claims; science contradicts most of them, and given the history of religion and science, science seems more likely to be right.

No one with scientific attitude can claim any of such stages and be certain of every theory; because everyday there are theories, and it is not scientific to take them as facts. Science is never non-religious or atheist. True science does not contradict any of that. The ancient also denied their apostles on such claims that they know the science (according to their time) and that the religion of the apostle is backwarded and is a collection of myths of the old [the nations more older than them.]

This is in the Quran 16: 24​

وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُم مَّاذَا أَنزَلَ رَبُّكُمْ قَالُواْ أَسَاطِيرُ الأَوَّلِينَ​

The explanation: (When it is said to them: "What is it that your Lord has sent down?", they say: "[Only] written fables of the ancients.")​

Therefore, it is a matter of guidance, I believe that the non-religious is like the blind, and he follows his desires, and lies to himself; and the proof of this is that a large number of scientists are believers in God and in His revealed books, and others are atheists. Moreover, this is true of different levels of education; man will see believers and disbelievers. They cannot restrict the science according to their desires, and their claim that the science disagree about the Quran and the other revealed books. ​

 

[darkbeaver]

You're not in a strong position to object. Take it the same way you claimed I should take your dinosaur cartoon.

The hallmark of a charlatan is a deliberate attempt to deceive, and Velikovsky believed he was right, so no, he wasn't a charlatan. He was just wrong. Anybody who reads Worlds in Collision and thinks Velikovsky was on to something is simply revealing scientific illiteracy.

I believe that's too broad a generalization of Velikovskys work Dexter, he wrote of monumental things, but those are by no means in the realm of science fiction or superstition. I believe he wasequal to if not more correct in his work as many of todays popular therorists in astro- physics, quantum theroy etc; even Hawkins has some notable failed ideas indeed we can talk about the popularized but dead end "string theroy" work of the last decade as an indication of what I see as the state of that type of theoretical science. You have to consider a great many possibilitys and not be afraid to puplicly speculate and present those ideas for greater exposure and consideration. Velikovsky was no slouch, very worthy work, his ideas are a matter of very serious scientific consideration even now.

[SIZE=+1]Velikovsky insisted that the ancient record -- including Biblical and other traditional Hebrew texts -- counted as evidence of natural events. Perhaps more than any of his other claims, this drew the ire of the scientific mainstream. His book Worlds in Collision quickly became the number one bestseller, but its publisher Macmillan came under such pressure that they were forced to transfer the publishing rights to Doubleday at the height of the book's popularity.[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]Although there was a resurgence of interest in Velikovsky's work in the early 1970's (beginning in 1972 with the publication of the scholarly journal, "Immanuel Velikovsky Reconsidered"), the pioneer died without his thesis having received a fair or objective hearing. Many who were inspired by Velikovsky -- including several researchers with the Thunderbolts group -- acknowledge that he was wrong on a number of points, but they insist that Velikovsky was closer to the truth than his persecutors.[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]Perhaps the most critical point that Velikovsky got right was his description of mankind as a race "living in amnesia". This was an issue on which Velikovsky spoke with authority -- he was a student of Freud's first pupil Wilhem Stekel, and was Israel's first practicing psychoanalyst. Of course, many psychoanalysts believe that destructive emotional patterns have their roots in past traumas. And the celestial dramas first described by Velikovsky were the most traumatic events in recorded history.[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]This is where we begin to see the enormity of the catastrophic model championed by Velikovsky and later elaborated by Electric Universe proponents. One cannot overstate the influence that planetary catastrophe had on the world's earliest religions. According to Velikovsky, outrageous tales that do not answer to anything in our world today -- including the heaven shattering wars of the gods, displacements of planetary motions, and the re-arrangement of the sky -- are in fact historical accounts, presented in the language of myth, describing the chaotic solar system of ancient times.[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]Within every cultural heritage, there is a great deal of unique mythological content or interpretation. But at the same time, cross-cultural comparison reveals certain underlying themes preserved by all cultures. And these themes become evidence of extraordinary events. In Judeo-Christian tradition, we are told that the rib of Adam became the first woman, Eve. A serpent in the garden tempted Eve, and deceived her into tasting the forbidden fruit. God responded by cursing Adam and Eve, casting them out of the garden. Adam's children then multiplied, only to be destroyed in the great flood, when God retaliated against the "wickedness of man". Virtually every culture on Earth had its own version of this tale -- the father of the race, the mother of the race, the serpent enemy, the primeval paradise and the Golden Age, the fall from paradise, and a great flood or world-destroying catastrophe.[/SIZE] http://www.rense.com/general67/whytheelectricuniverse.htmVelikovsky was simply a genius in more than one dicipline, his work cannot be lightly trashed.He was more right than wrong and many of todays top science speculators only wish they had his smarts.

 

[darkbeaver]

All the scientists thought that the clouds covering Venus were water vapor and that the surface temperature of Venus was 68 degrees F or 20 C. A nice shirt sleeve environment where guys like Oscar could grow up. Well, all the scientists except one thought Venus was a greenhouse - Immanuel Velikovsky. He said Venus had a surface temperature of 800 F (paper burns at 451 F), and the clouds were hydrocarbons and unsuitable for breathing. Therefore, definitely no greenhouse, but an uninhabited and uninhabitable planet! Naturally, the establishment scientists of the time scoffed at Velikovsky, told him how wrong he was, kept the book publisher MacMillan from publishing his book, and made a scientific pariah of him. Later, when Venusian probes proved Velikovsky was right - did they offer an apology? Are you serious? No way. What they did do was rather interesting, though. They said, in effect, we were right about Venus being a greenhouse -- we just got the date wrong -- it was a greenhouse a looonnnng time ago, you see, and that caused a concentration of carbon dioxide to build up, and the temperature of the whole planet to rise until it got be 800 F. Now this was silly enough, but these reputable scientists weren't finished with us yet. They also warned that if we don't stop emitting carbon dioxide and other related chemicals (fluorocarbons, etc) into the air, then we will have the same greenhouse effect on Earth and we will eventually all burn up, too! They even created several phrases to scare people with and trick them into giving them tax money to do their research with -- "greenhouse gases" and "global warming". All this because they didn't wish to admit that they were wrong and Velikovsky's predictions were right -- not only of the surface temperature of Venus -- but also about a couple of dozen other things which have also proved to be true, such as radio emissions from Jupiter, among other things. Matt and his jeep lands on Venus, but the jeep sinks out of sight and he and his crew get taken below the water to a Venerian civilization consisting of all female creatures requiring specialized diplomatic skills to handle them. Matt and his crew rescue the space ship Astarte which crashed over a hundred years earlier on the planet, about 1975, which makes that another good guess for Heinlein, since by that time the USA had sent a manned expedition to the Moon, and could have made a manned trip to Venus if they had wished to. But, you see, it turned out Velikovsky was right, so they couldn't. When the first unmanned probe to Venus burnt up in the atmosphere, exactly as Velikovsky predicted, I cheered.
http://www.doyletics.com/arj/spacecad.htm

 

[darkbeaver]

Immanuel Velikovsky was a modern heretic of Science and during his Inquisition by the American Academy for the Advancement of Science, he was held up to ridicule after being promised an open forum to present his views. Velikovsky presented 26 hypotheses in his landmark book Worlds in Collision that were ridiculed in 1952 and then later proven to be accurate before his appearance at the AAAS convention, such as radio emissions from Jupiter, and still the august body of the AAAS chose to treat Velikovsky in the 1980s as shabbily as the Church Inquisition treated Galileo in his time. Several of the scientists who called Velikovsky a crackpot used his ideas later without bothering to mention his name. http://www.doyletics.com/arj/gdrvw.htm

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Velikovsky was no slouch, very worthy work, his ideas are a matter of very serious scientific consideration even now.

That is simply false. His reputation among serious scientists is exactly zero, he contributed nothing to science, you will not find his work referenced in serious scientific work except analyses that show how and why he was wrong. You've been taken in by the woo woo crowd and their journals and web sites. This kind of sweeping generalization is typical of them, from the long passage you quoted: "One cannot overstate the influence that planetary catastrophe had on the world's earliest religions." Yes one can, and that sentence does. Until relatively recently in human history, pretty much everybody lived and died within a very short distance of where they were born, so any catastrophe that happened to them would be, from their perspective, the whole world. Many cultures have a global flood story, but if your whole world is encompassed by a horizon of a few hundred kilometers, and includes rivers that flood in the spring, chances are there will be a tribal tale of a vast flood. There have indeed been planetary catastrophes, the record is clear in the geological column, but not within the last 4000 years as Velikovsky requires.

Velikovsky postulates that Venus was ejected as a comet from Jupiter, bounced around the solar system for a while, including several close encounters with Earth, and eventually settled down into its current nearly circular orbit. That seems to be based on a huge and unexplained assumption: that any reference by any culture to any supernatural being that is also represented by a celestial body, is really a direct observation of that body. Thus he takes completely literally the old Greek tale of Athena being born full grown from the head of Zeus, as an observation of an actual event. Along the way he thoroughly confuses references to Venus, Aphrodite, and Athena, as if they were all the same character. He uses those events and carefully selected mythology from many cultures, to try to explain some of the miracles recorded in the Old Testament. He's very ingenious, comes across as very scholarly and diligent, and he writes entertainingly, but he's quite wrong.

For Venus to be ejected from Jupiter and pass near Earth multiple times, well understood principles of orbital mechanics require it to be in a very elongated elliptical orbit. For that to happen, there's a very narrow (and therefore unlikely) range of velocities it can have, greater than Jupiter's escape velocity but less than the sun's escape velocity at Jupiter's distance. It must have been ejected at between 70 and 73 km/sec, in a very particular direction. Probability alone argues strongly against this. Consider too that Venus has about 80% of Earth's mass. If it were in a very elongated orbit and several grazing encounters with the Earth circularized it into its present position, Earth's orbit would have been similarly perturbed in the opposite direction and there'd have been far worse catastrophes than anything Velikovsky envisioned. If Earth had been in the habitable zone around the sun before his catastrophes, it certainly wouldn't have been afterwards. The moon wouldn't still be where it is either.

Velikovsky's central thesis simply cannot possibly be correct. Yes, he was right about some things; If you make enough claims you're bound to get a few lucky hits, that's how psychics work, but in the few places he was right, he was right for the wrong reasons. For instance, he attributes Venus' high surface temperature to heating during its encounters with Earth and Mars and its close passage around the sun at perihelion, though nowhere did he state what he thought its actual surface temperature would be. The actual cause, a runaway greenhouse effect, was first analyzed and described in a 1940 paper--which Velikovsky almost certainly read--published in the Astrophysical Journal by Rupert Wildt, shortly after carbon dioxide had been discovered spectroscopically in Venus' atmosphere. Velikovsky used a very similar argument to claim that Mars too would be hot, and he was dead wrong about that. It's also fairly easy to show with the Stefan-Boltzmann equation that the maximum amount of heat Venus could have picked up from the sun in a close perihelion could not possibly have kept it hot for the 3500 years Velikovsky requires. The mechanism he proposed cannot account for the surface temperatures of either Venus or Mars.

The real credibility destroyer for me though, occurs as early as page 11 in Worlds in Collision. He claims that all existing theories of orbital mechanics make it impossible for a satellite to orbit a planet faster than the planet itself rotates. That reveals his total ignorance of the subject. There is no connection between a planet's rotational period and the orbital periods of things around it.

 

[eanassir]

He claims that all existing theories of orbital mechanics make it impossible for a satellite to orbit a planet faster than the planet itself rotates. That reveals his total ignorance of the subject. There is no connection between a planet's rotational period and the orbital periods of things around it.

Here Velikovsky was correct.

The expression may be ambiguous; he means: The satellite completes its rotation around the planet in a longer duration than a planet will complete its rotation around itself.

This is as if the satellite is tied to the planet by a rope or chain [of the gravity]. The planet will go on spinning around itself and drag the satellite with it in the same direction the planet is spinning [from right to left.]

The same is applied to the earth and the sun: The sun completes its axial rotation in about 25 days, while the earth completes its rotation around the sun in 365 days.

The earth spins around itself in one day (24 hours), while the moon rotates around the earth in 29days and 12 hours.

Similarly, the meteorites or the rocks that circulate around the earth will complete its rotation around the earth in a period longer than 24 hours.

A rule for objects
http://universeandquran.741.com/new_page_3.htm#ARuleforObjects


eanassir
http://universeandquran.741.com​

 

[Dexter Sinister]

That's absolute nonsense eanassir. There is nothing in orbital mechanics that relates the period of an orbit around a body to the body's period of rotation. It depends on only two things: the masses of the two bodies, and the distance between them. Satellites in low earth orbit complete the trip in a little under 90 minutes. There are hundreds of things in orbit around the earth that complete an orbit in a lot less time than 24 hours. There are millions of things in orbit around Saturn that revolve around the planet faster than it rotates. Every one of them gives the lie to Velikovsky's ignorant claim, and yours.

 

[eanassir]

That's absolute nonsense eanassir. There is nothing in orbital mechanics that relates the period of an orbit around a body to the body's period of rotation. It depends on only two things: the masses of the two bodies, and the distance between them. Satellites in low earth orbit complete the trip in a little under 90 minutes. There are hundreds of things in orbit around the earth that complete an orbit in a lot less time than 24 hours. There are millions of things in orbit around Saturn that revolve around the planet faster than it rotates. Every one of them gives the lie to Velikovsky's ignorant claim, and yours.

No need to say "nonsense". What I mean is clear: I don't mean the speed in km/hr but the number of rotations around the attracting object that rotates around itself.
It cannot be a satellite that completes its orbiting in less than 90 minutes, unless it may be an artificial satellite that has been put in the orbit with certain initial speed by a rocket for example.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

No need to say "nonsense". What I mean is clear: I don't mean the speed in km/hr but the number of rotations around the attracting object that rotates around itself.
It cannot be a satellite that completes its orbiting in less than 90 minutes, unless it may be an artificial satellite that has been put in the orbit with certain initial speed by a rocket for example.

Yes, what you meant was perfectly clear to me, and it *is* nonsense. There is no connection between the angular velocity, to give it its correct name, of a rotating body, and the angular velocity of anything orbiting it. There's nothing unique about artificial satellites, they're subject to the same rules of physics any other orbiting object is. The inner moon of Mars completes an orbit around Mars in less time than it takes Mars to rotate, and the inner rings of Saturn, which are composed of many separate little objects, orbit around Saturn in less time than it takes Saturn to rotate. There's no mystery about it, they behave exactly as predicted by well understood theories of orbital mechanics. You and Velikovsky are completely wrong.

 

[darkbeaver]

That's absolute nonsense eanassir. There is nothing in orbital mechanics that relates the period of an orbit around a body to the body's period of rotation. It depends on only two things: the masses of the two bodies, and the distance between them. Satellites in low earth orbit complete the trip in a little under 90 minutes. There are hundreds of things in orbit around the earth that complete an orbit in a lot less time than 24 hours. There are millions of things in orbit around Saturn that revolve around the planet faster than it rotates. Every one of them gives the lie to Velikovsky's ignorant claim, and yours.

"Religious revelation is not the way to get scientific data, and arguments from authority aren't worth anything."



You forgot charge.You argue from authority more than science.