The Asteroid 2007 WD5 will not impact Mars.

[darkbeaver]

Cheap shot, Beave, not worthy of you. I thought for a long time you were just putting us on here, and I'm still not entirely convinced you're not, I thought you were smarter than that, but mostly now I'm pretty sure you're actually buying eanassir's nonsense. In which case: Your and eanassir's 'big picture,' very like that of the dinosaurs about to get wiped out by a meteorite impact in that image, is composed mostly of ignorance, fantasy, mysticism, and superstition, and demonstrably so. Somehow it seems relevant to point out that the cartoon is based on relatively recent discoveries that provide an excellent example of how science actually works: a daring hypothesis, with some good evidence but not enough to prove the case, just enough to generate the hypothesis, several decades of detailed field work in geology and paleontology and other sciences, with lots of controversy and argument along the way, and more than a little political BS and ego (scientists are human too), but all the evidence ultimately converged to the same conclusion: hypothesis confirmed beyond a reasonable doubt, even to the point of finding the likely impact site. The real 'big picture' as science has discovered it, with Newtonian mechanics and Maxwell's equations and relativity and quantum theory and evolution and continental drift and a thousand other things, is far more complex, interesting, and challenging than anything any ignorant, superstitious mystic ever imagined.

The mystical and religious imagination is desperately impoverished compared to what science has discovered about reality. What, for instance, does al-Hilly, and by extension eanassir, say about mass extinctions? There have been five major ones that we know of, in which at least 50% of species disappeared, and at least nine minor ones. They mark the boundaries between the divisions on the geological time scale. The most recent major one, at the end of the Cretaceous 65 million years ago, was due to a meteorite impact, the others seem to be due to global climate change. The worst one by far was the one that ended the Permian about 250 million years ago; something like 90% of species snuffed it in that one, and it's strongly associated with markers in the fossil record indicating a sudden, very large increase in greenhouse gases to over twice today's levels. There is powerful evidence that at various times in the last 500 million years the earth has been almost entirely glaciated, and almost entirely tropical. Name me a mystical magical thinker who predicted that.

You want to know about the cosmos around you? Science is the only reliable way we've ever found for testing the truth content of ideas. If you've got a better one, or even another one just as good, lay it out. Otherwise you're just spitting into the wind.

Cheap shot it was not Dexter, it was what it was, a little cartoon with a big message, that was meant in jest. You tend to discount history and adopt the perspective of the isolated academic. The last extinction event was the "dark ages" which resulted in horrific human misery by starvation disease and war, all precipitated by celestial events which have been recorded since the written word. Supression of the study and wide disemination of the information has been ruthlessly persued for millenia by monarch and church alike for obvious reasons of maintenance of control of he masses. Mass hysteria is a dangerous thing to powerful institutions. Science is a powerful tool but it's practice is no means resticted to or the property of official academic organs which historicly have no freedom to deseminate facts not in the interest of the ruling elite and state organs. It is my opinion shared with many others that science as it exists today is an entirely captive group, just another bought and paid for servent of wealth. I give for example the horiffic state of weapons developement as an example of the appauling guilt of the body of science, medicine shares in the same crime the same is true of all the other disciplines everyone of them bought and controled through academia and the unwholesome marriage between the private sector and universitys. This criminal bonding pertains accross the board.
There is ample evidence to prove beyond doubt that the present warming trend is caused by solar activity and has little to do with mans activitys. This period of warming is commonly observed in the science you cite, we are on the cusp of an ice age which is cyclic in nature as is the return of comets and the ensueing ecological disasters of varying degrees recorded in history universaly kept in both written and oral memories of the inhabitants of this planet for at least fifty thoudand years. Civilization and science has cycled accordingly all through that time and indeed all through the geological history of the planet.
If you want to know why religion remains a powerful tool of the elite you should consider what widespread understanding of our celestial history would do to the power structures of humans, this was well understood by the various churches. This planet is visited by comets and asteroids with regularity and predictability, suppression of this knowledge has been near total aided by the temples of science and education who have always obeyed religion or paid the price of outcast or burning. So Dexter while you rail against religion you foget that science has always in the end been a willing insturment of crime and religion.
To have admitted rule by celestial mechanics rather than god would have destroyed the religious/political power structures and made humane science and reason master, this is why it was never done and still does not assend to power and displace the insanity at the top.
There is nothing mysticle fantastic or superstitious about the recorded visitations of celestial bodys in history.
There have always been fire breathing dragons. Takeing offence at the cartoon remides me of the mindless furor witnessed by the anti-Islam cartoons of last year. Science is reliable, and so are hammers and screwdrivers, science is a tool and not a god, it is one aspect of the human experiance and cannot exist in isolation

 

[Dexter Sinister]

...mostly they are wrong.

Prove it. Not with arguments from authority, with real evidence and good logic.

 

[darkbeaver]

Darkbeaver,
How can such comet destroy all the dinasors? Did all the dinasors live in one area of the earth? Or did it show its supposed influence by another way?

Even a relatively small strike can throw billions of tons of material into the atmosphere, blocking sunlight destroying vegetation altering climate iceshields ect; In western and northern north america and siberia vast reefs of animal remains are pushed into the mountain slopes of the eastern rockies, similarly islands of mastadon bones still are to be found in the arctic seas, indeed the asian ivory artisans relied on these vast piles of tusks for hundreds of years. Those remains are only between twelve and thirteen thousand years old indeed many of the remains are still frozen as they stood with guts and mouths full of the plant matter they were eating at the time of thier instant death. These facts have been known for years but still have not been admitted to the general stream of knowedge, by design.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Cheap shot it was not Dexter, it was what it was, a little cartoon with a big message, that was meant in jest.

I don't believe you. You were calling us dinosaurs and implying that we're unable to grasp the big picture. The rest of your paranoid ramblings in that post aren't worth responding to.

 

[eanassir]

Even a relatively small strike can throw billions of tons of material into the atmosphere, blocking sunlight destroying vegetation altering climate iceshields ect; In western and northern north america and siberia vast reefs of animal remains are pushed into the mountain slopes of the eastern rockies, similarly islands of mastadon bones still are to be found in the arctic seas, indeed the asian ivory artisans relied on these vast piles of tusks for hundreds of years. Those remains are only between twelve and thirteen thousand years old indeed many of the remains are still frozen as they stood with guts and mouths full of the plant matter they were eating at the time of thier instant death. These facts have been known for years but still have not been admitted to the general stream of knowedge, by design.

Darkbeaver,
Such a big impact may cause various destrctive effects. If I have some reply that may cause nervousness[not of course like this reply of yours], I better postpone the reply to the next day. But on the contrary, I say such events as the comet falling down and the meteorites do fall every now and then on all the planets and moons in our solar system.

 

[eanassir]

Prove it. Not with arguments from authority, with real evidence and good logic.

I have copied the stages that you cited; in order to study it, and will reply, but as I said: how can we be sure of such stages eventhough there are the half life of some radioactive elements ... etc.

 

[darkbeaver]

I don't believe you. You were calling us dinosaurs and implying that we're unable to grasp the big picture. The rest of your paranoid ramblings in that post aren't worth responding to.

I included myself as one of those dinosaurs Dex and freely admit it here and now, I share a common world with the rest of humanity.

{The rest of your paranoid ramblings in that post aren't worth responding to.[/quote]}
And yet respond you did, with systemic faith [handmaiden of religion and power] not argument nor fact of science nor history or extant empirical evidence which in this case lies wholely in my court.
So with that in mind I will supply some facts of science and history to this thread. Feel free to dispute them, but I caution you up front, as soon as you employ faith I'll remind you of it.

 

[darkbeaver]

Darkbeaver,
Such a big impact may cause various destrctive effects. If I have some reply that may cause nervousness[not of course like this reply of yours], I better postpone the reply to the next day. But on the contrary, I say such events as the comet falling down and the meteorites do fall every now and then on all the planets and moons in our solar system.

A big strike is not necessary to cause global destruction even passing through the tail of a coment can and has wreaked terrible destruction in recent recorded history.


www.sott.net/articles/show/146792-The-Hazard-to-Civilization-from-Fireballs-and-Comets
What is ultra-red matter?

There appears to be a material dubbed "ultra-red matter" that exists only on about half of all Kuiper belt objects and their immediate progeny, known as centaurs - icy planetoids orbiting between Jupiter and Neptune that very recently escaped from the Kuiper belt.

This ultra-red matter does not exist in the inner solar system, "not even on the comets which come from the Kuiper belt. This suggests that the ultra-red matter is somehow unstable at the higher temperatures close to the sun," Jewitt explained.

The red colors suggest this substance might contain organic molecules. Comets and other planetoids are often thought to have helped bring organic molecules to Earth.

"In the Kuiper belt objects, organics might have been 'cooked' by cosmic ray radiation, giving them dark red surfaces, but there is no proof," Jewitt said. Ideally spacecraft could go out there and find out, he added.

Has the Kuiper belt shrunk?

Theoretical calculations suggest the Kuiper belt was once hundreds or maybe even thousands of times more populated than it is now. "How was 99 percent or 99.9 percent of the mass lost, and when?" Jewitt asked

Secrets in the Oort cloud?

A distant reservoir of trillions of comets known as the Oort cloud theoretically lies up to 100,000 astronomical units from the sun - an astronomical unit or AU being about 93 million miles (150 million kilometers). This means the Oort cloud is a fifth of the way to the nearest star, so far away that objects within it have never been seen directly, only inferred - but it must exist, given all the comets seen over the years.

The Oort cloud is the conjectured source of comets that require centuries or millennia to complete their long journeys around the sun. Since these "long-period comets" come from all directions, the Oort cloud is often thought to be spherical. However, while comets such as Halley's do not come from the Kuiper belt, their orbits also do not jibe with a spherical Oort cloud, Jewitt explained. This suggests there may be an "inner Oort cloud" shaped kind of like a doughnut.

Astrophysicists think the Oort cloud is a remnant of the protoplanetary disk that formed around the sun roughly 4.6 billion years ago. Learning more about the Oort cloud could shed light on how our solar system - and Earth - were born, Jewitt said.

Are there more dwarf planets?

So far, three dwarf planets are recognized - Ceres, Pluto and Eris. The Kuiper belt, which lies about 50 AU from the sun, could hold some 200 more. Beyond that there could be scores of dwarf-planet-sized bodies beyond roughly 100 AU from the sun "that nobody had seen before due to their faintness and slow motion," said astronomer Chad Trujillo at Gemini Observatory in Hawaii. "Even a body as big as Mars could be missed in our current surveys if it were moved beyond a couple hundred AU."

Trujillo noted projects such as Pan-STARRS (Panoramic Survey Telescope And Rapid Response System) and the LSST (Large Synoptic Survey Telescope) "should fill this gap in our knowledge in the coming decade."

Where do the dwarf planets come from?

There are theories that the dwarf planets of the outer solar system may have dwelt in the inner solar system billions of years ago, based on their current orbital trajectories. If so, "why are there so many ices on their surfaces?" Trujillo asked. Bodies in the inner solar system are generally expected to lose their ice due to sunlight.

Trujillo and his colleagues suspect the ice now seen on these dwarf planets is relatively new, with such replacement ice coming perhaps from within these worlds, erupting out during "cryovolcanism." Of course, further research is needed to see if such ice renewal would be enough to cover the dwarf planet after they voyaged from the inner to the outer solar system, he added.

Do cosmic rays come from a bubble around the solar system?

When the supersonic wind of charged particles that flows from our sun collides with the thin gas found between the stars, the solar wind essentially blows a bubble in this interstellar medium - a ball known as the heliosphere.

Scientists have thought unusually weak cosmic rays - energetic particles that zip from space at Earth - come from the heliosphere. Specifically, these rays are thought to come from the "termination shock" - a shock wave of compressed, hot particles that results when the solar wind abruptly brakes against interstellar gas. (The termination shock appears to be about 75 to 85 AU from the sun.)

However, Voyager 1 saw no sign these anomalous cosmic rays were produced at the termination shock. "Perhaps it crossed the shock at the wrong time or place," said MIT astrophysicist John Richardson, or perhaps the standard view on how these anomalous cosmic rays are generated is wrong. Voyager 2 crossed the termination shock in 2007 about 10 billion miles away from where Voyager 1 crossed it in 2004, and its data, which is still being analyzed, "may help us understand where these particle are produced," he explained.

"Cosmic rays have been reported to affect Earth's weather so understanding their source is important," Richardson added. Moreover, high-energy particles from shock waves triggered by huge eruptions from the sun known as coronal mass ejections can damage spacecraft and astronauts, and better understanding the termination shock could help understand these other, potentially dangerous particles.

 

[darkbeaver]

CBC News
Fri, 04 Jan 2008 08:34 EST

Mammoth fossils around the Yukon are offering evidence that ancient meteor explosions may have wiped out entire species there thousands of years ago, a California-based researcher says.

A team led by Richard Firestone, a nuclear scientist at the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory in Berkeley, Calif., made the discovery while testing thousands of samples of fossilized Alaskan mammoth ivory from a suspected meteor impact that occurred about 13,000 years ago.
©R. Firestone

"You would see round circles with little holes in them," Firestone told CBC News in an interview Thursday, referring to hundreds of circular burn marks he saw on some mastadon tusks.

X-ray analysis showed tiny rock fragments deep inside those holes, and metallurgical tests confirmed the fragments did come from meteors.

Firestone said he believes meteorites exploded over parts of Beringia - the Ice Age-era region that includes parts of modern-day Alaska, Yukon and Siberia - creating showers of fragments, or "micrometeorites," that struck and killed many of the prehistoric creatures that roamed the area.

Furthermore, Firestone's team uncovered a surprise: The sample tusks dated back to about 35,000 years ago, meaning they were older than the blast from 13,000 years ago that they were initially studying.

"It turns out that there was an impact event, probably a meteor, that exploded over Alaska and probably over Siberia ... around that time and embedded these particles into the tusks," he said.

"They probably came in under very high velocities, hundreds of kilometres a second almost. It must have exploded and just embedded these things in the tusks in large quantities, as many as 100 or more in one tusk."

The small holes with meteorite fragments were found in about one out of every 1,000 pieces of mastodon ivory pieces Firestone's team has tested. They also found similar fragments in one Siberian bison skull that appeared to have survived the blast, he said.

"In the bison skull, since that was bone, we could see renewed growth around these particles after they had been impacted. So presumably the bison - that particular individual, at least - survived the impact."

Now, Firestone is asking Yukoners for any mammoth fossil samples they may have. He is asking anyone who has found fossilized bone or ivory with circular discolorations to try and collect soil samples in the area where they found the fossil, then contact him at the California laboratory.

"We think they came from your area around the Yukon somewhere," he said. "So presumably [Yukoners] are going to be finding these things if they look for them."

Firestone's findings were presented last month at a meeting of the American Geophysical Union in San Francisco.

 

[eanassir]

A big strike is not necessary to cause global destruction even passing through the tail of a coment can and has wreaked terrible destruction in recent recorded history.
www.sott.net/articles/show/146792-The-Hazard-to-Civilization-from-Fireballs-and-Comets
What is ultra-red matter?

Darkbeaver,
I don't know from where you get such important links and information, but what you replied two days ago is far more scientific and full of wisdom and deep thinking:

"God is one and complete and therefore All-knowing, including these three aspects of knowledge
the known, the unknown and the unknowable. If we do not admit the unknowable then we refute and pollute the all-knowing god, for to know the unknowable is to trangress on gods supremacy.We will never be gods peers but will always remain children."​

 

[CDNBear]

CBC News
Fri, 04 Jan 2008 08:34 EST

beave...

Not to poke you while your legs in the trap, but do you not find it severely hypocritical to belittle and completely dismiss as 'garbage', the CBC in one thread, then use them to support your theory in another?

 

[Dexter Sinister]

...I will supply some facts of science and history to this thread.

Going to cite Velikovsky again, or others like him? Graham Hancock perhaps? Anybody who uses Velikovsky as a source for anything is just blowing smoke. His work was thoroughly discredited decades ago.

 

[darkbeaver]

beave...

Not to poke you while your legs in the trap, but do you not find it severely hypocritical to belittle and completely dismiss as 'garbage', the CBC in one thread, then use them to support your theory in another?

That's a good point Bear, I'm happy to explain that issue you have. The above item is documented and therefore open to further search. Many of the storys carried by CBC are not news item but manufactured pieces of propaganda, for instance the story last week about the retarded female suicide bombers in the Iraqi market, a total piece of invention, no names for sources no verifiable details and loaded with anti-Islamic slander that had no bearing on the event.

 

[Avro]

So, the CBC has a right wing anti-Muslim bias? Is that what you are saying?

Dark's drug of choice....

 

[darkbeaver]

Going to cite Velikovsky again, or others like him? Graham Hancock perhaps? Anybody who uses Velikovsky as a source for anything is just blowing smoke. His work was thoroughly discredited decades ago.

Smoke indeed, and fire and comets, moving planets, suns in different quarters and parting of seas and many great floods all of it true Dex all of it recorded by witnessess all of it understood and verifiable by todays frantic search for those very same cosmic agents of chaos. I'm sorry that you've decided against adjusting your perspective a bit to incorporate the evidence and the resulting explanations.
I'm quite aware of what was done to Velikovsky and why, it had nothing to do with his science and everything to do with preservation of the status-quo exactly by the same systemic witch hunt and burning common to the dark ages and the reformation by exactly the same agents of manipulative control, the church and the monarchy. So I hope you're not agreeing with the churches condemnation and sentencing of Galelao or Bruni for exactly the same transgressions as Velikovsky made. It's well documented and well understood so I'm not going to waste more of your time, if you haven't read Velikovskys stuff you don't know what you're missing, I , like Einstien enjoyed his writing a lot. By the way much of Velikovskys work was verified correct by space flight and the observations and experiments conducted since it was written.
Planets have moved arround violently in the solar system within recorded history Dex , the proof is all there in the old books and the rocks. The surface of this planet resembles that of the moon, loads of fresh craters all over the place.

 

[darkbeaver]

So, the CBC has a right wing anti-Muslim bias? Is that what you are saying?

Dark's drug of choice....

I'm pretty sure you have committed a thread infraction Avro, I don't see anything in your post about science or environment, I think you're just causeing trouble I'm reporting you to the inquisition.

 

[Avro]

I'm pretty sure you have committed a thread infraction Avro, I don't see anything in your post about science or environment, I think you're just causeing trouble I'm reporting you to the inquisition.

Something a commie pinko would do.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

... if you haven't read Velikovskys stuff you don't know what you're missing...

Yes, I've read lots of Velikovsky's stuff. He started with the assumption that all myths and legends actually record true events, he cherry picked them to suit his thesis, arbitrarily changed them or made other stuff up when necessary to keep his tale consistent, showed complete ignorance of orbital mechanics, and on and on and on. He's fulla crap, and if he's going to be your source for the science and history you're going to bring to this thread, all you're going to contribute is more misinformation.

For someone to wear the mantle of Galileo, it's not enough just to be persecuted. You also have to be right. Velikovsky was wrong.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Something a commie pinko would do.

Or a paranoid...

 

[Kreskin]

We call it Andem Ghraib.