The first vote is happening. Iowa is always first. Corn farmers. Last I heard, Obama was winning but it's getting really hard now to find any counts. We'll soon see how this will all play out.
Meanwhile, down in the US
- Thread starter hermite
- Start date
Atrocity-Linked U.S. Officials Advising Democratic, GOP Presidential Frontrunners:
Independent journalist Allan Nairn and American Conservative correspondent Kelley Beaucar Vlahos discuss a little-addressed facet of the 2008 campaign: many of the top advisers to leading presidential candidates are ex-U.S. officials involved in atrocities around the world
Independent journalist Allan Nairn and American Conservative correspondent Kelley Beaucar Vlahos discuss a little-addressed facet of the 2008 campaign: many of the top advisers to leading presidential candidates are ex-U.S. officials involved in atrocities around the world
Democracy Now! - 01/03/08
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]CLICK PLAY TO LISTEN[/FONT]
Real Video Stream Real Audio StreamMP3 Download
Click on "comments" below to read or post comments
AMY GOODMAN: Presidential candidates are scrambling to win last-minute support in Iowa ahead of tonight’s caucus. Thousands of reporters have also descended on Iowa this week, covering everything from Mike Huckabee’s haircut to John Edwards’s rally with singer John Mellencamp.
But little attention has been paid to perhaps one of the most important aspects of the candidates: their advisers, the men and women who likely form the backbone of the candidate’s future cabinet if elected president. Many of the names will be familiar.
Advisers to Hillary Rodham Clinton include many former top officials in President Clinton’s administration: former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, former National Security Adviser Samuel Berger, former UN Ambassador Richard Holbrooke. Senator Barack Obama’s list includes President Carter’s National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski, former counterterrorism czar Richard Clarke, former Middle East negotiator Dennis Ross.
Rudolph Giuliani’s advisers include Norman Podhoretz, one of the fathers of the neoconservative movement. John McCain’s list of official and formal policy advisers includes former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, General Colin Powell, William Kristol of The Weekly Standard, and former CIA Director James Woolsey. One of Mitt Romney’s top advisers is Cofer Black, the former CIA official who now serves as vice chair of Blackwater Worldwide. Vice President Dick Cheney’s daughter Elizabeth is advising Fred Thompson.
Hey DarkBeve..
It's always amazed me that the great unwashed actually believe that an "election" changes anything. If the same advisors that led America into an illegal military invaision of Iraq and cultivated the situation to ensure that multi-billionaire oil magnates and industrialists reaped profits at the expense of the American people to say nothing of the hundreds of thousands murdered by America's military in an action predicated on lies half-truths and fabricated "evidence" what change is practically possible with this same cadre of thieves and liars pushing the buttons and manipulating the levers?
The answer is simple enough.
None.
Americans won't hold their elected mafia responsible for the lies and disassembly of their constitution but would rather their government continue to make a mockery of every international treaty agreement and convention previously held up as affirmation of the committment of America to peace freedom and a "greater" morality.
All the evidence is available to Americans with respect to the activities and behaviors of many of the people mentioned in the article above. From the use of the military at Waco to interference in the judicial system to prepare the field for looting at the hands of "friends of the administration". We have far less to fear from Al Queada and the Taliban than we have to fear from these people in Washington DC and the military junta that's alive and well and living in the United States.
The American answer to those who oppose their pillage of the earth in the name of prosperity is war, both overt "out-in-the-open" war like Iraq and Afghanistan and the covert secret wars that Americans are loathe to acknowledge but available for reference from East Timor and Nicaragua to Indonesia and everywhere in the world where American appetities dictate the course of history.
America in the hands of the conservative movement that's ballooned spending in the name of war-profiteering while squelching any and all consideration of the consequences of the on-going rape and pilliage of the planet as seen in global climate change, $100.00 a barrel petroleum and a plague of corruption infecting everything "American" from industries that promote and profit from sweatshop labor in nations all over the planet to steroid use in sports to placate a population desperately craving any rationale for celebration of a "hero".
If anyone believes for a moment that any of the candidates throwing their hats in the ring in the circus happening in the United States ...another fixed election where the wealthy will win at the expense of the poor....is worthy of anything other than contempt and disdain they're most likely those also prepared to sacrifice people and values to their own personal greed and disregard for their humanity.
What bothers me most isn't that people make mistakes, everyone makes mistakes and that's how we sometimes learn...what's more troubling is that Americans just like Canadians grip their fantasies so tightly in the face of lies and turpitude.
Of course to be fair, Canadians are just as willingly ignorant of their own cabal of "representatives" who like every other thief in the night will continue to defraud and lie and steal from the people of Canada...who will celebrate their "candidate's" rise to office.
It seems pointless to even attempt a discussion with people so transfixed with their own stupidity.
It's always amazed me that the great unwashed actually believe that an "election" changes anything. If the same advisors that led America into an illegal military invaision of Iraq and cultivated the situation to ensure that multi-billionaire oil magnates and industrialists reaped profits at the expense of the American people to say nothing of the hundreds of thousands murdered by America's military in an action predicated on lies half-truths and fabricated "evidence" what change is practically possible with this same cadre of thieves and liars pushing the buttons and manipulating the levers?
The answer is simple enough.
None.
Americans won't hold their elected mafia responsible for the lies and disassembly of their constitution but would rather their government continue to make a mockery of every international treaty agreement and convention previously held up as affirmation of the committment of America to peace freedom and a "greater" morality.
All the evidence is available to Americans with respect to the activities and behaviors of many of the people mentioned in the article above. From the use of the military at Waco to interference in the judicial system to prepare the field for looting at the hands of "friends of the administration". We have far less to fear from Al Queada and the Taliban than we have to fear from these people in Washington DC and the military junta that's alive and well and living in the United States.
The American answer to those who oppose their pillage of the earth in the name of prosperity is war, both overt "out-in-the-open" war like Iraq and Afghanistan and the covert secret wars that Americans are loathe to acknowledge but available for reference from East Timor and Nicaragua to Indonesia and everywhere in the world where American appetities dictate the course of history.
America in the hands of the conservative movement that's ballooned spending in the name of war-profiteering while squelching any and all consideration of the consequences of the on-going rape and pilliage of the planet as seen in global climate change, $100.00 a barrel petroleum and a plague of corruption infecting everything "American" from industries that promote and profit from sweatshop labor in nations all over the planet to steroid use in sports to placate a population desperately craving any rationale for celebration of a "hero".
If anyone believes for a moment that any of the candidates throwing their hats in the ring in the circus happening in the United States ...another fixed election where the wealthy will win at the expense of the poor....is worthy of anything other than contempt and disdain they're most likely those also prepared to sacrifice people and values to their own personal greed and disregard for their humanity.
What bothers me most isn't that people make mistakes, everyone makes mistakes and that's how we sometimes learn...what's more troubling is that Americans just like Canadians grip their fantasies so tightly in the face of lies and turpitude.
Of course to be fair, Canadians are just as willingly ignorant of their own cabal of "representatives" who like every other thief in the night will continue to defraud and lie and steal from the people of Canada...who will celebrate their "candidate's" rise to office.
It seems pointless to even attempt a discussion with people so transfixed with their own stupidity.
What gets me is that I can push a button and get in depth information of who's talking to who and see with ease that no change is forthcoming. I am not American and I know more about the candidates than 90% of voteing Americans. What a sorry excuse for a country, they are to stupid to believe to stupid to suck air. Unphucking believable CNN has declared Huckabee the republican winner, and it's because of his christian values, you understand that, does anybody on the planet understand that, he has strong values, jesus h christ, they are well and truely retarded. Well what did I expect.
The list of advisers said it all anyway.The winners in any case will be the same elite that has always run the hole. Everyone of those advisers is a bonified war criminal. Where is my goddman army, we're in Afghanistan saving something from somebody, I want my border closed and the lines of communication severed and a fence two kilometers high built from the Atlantic to the Pacific, so none of those idiots escape to Canada, except Daryl Hanna and a hundred or so million of the smart ones.
The list of advisers said it all anyway.The winners in any case will be the same elite that has always run the hole. Everyone of those advisers is a bonified war criminal. Where is my goddman army, we're in Afghanistan saving something from somebody, I want my border closed and the lines of communication severed and a fence two kilometers high built from the Atlantic to the Pacific, so none of those idiots escape to Canada, except Daryl Hanna and a hundred or so million of the smart ones.
Anyways...
Obama and Huckabee are going to win.
Bad news for Hillary and Romney.
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/state/#IA
Obama and Huckabee are going to win.
Bad news for Hillary and Romney.
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/state/#IA
If they don't suck them in, then they will just.......cheat.
As before.
Just reading the results this time. The rest is too puke making to bother with.
8O
As before.
Just reading the results this time. The rest is too puke making to bother with.
8O
I'm very happy to see that Obama has won the first leg of the democratic leadership.
Edwards did well also, and now he has climbed into second spot, just a smidge ahead
of Clinton.
I hope the two of them keep it going and come in 1 - 2 at the end of it all, then Obama
can put Edwards on the ticket with him for the run for the presidency, or visa versa if
things turn around, just hope Clinton doesn't gain next time, and get back into it.
Huckabee won the republican side, seems like a good guy, not the robot that Romney is.
Edwards did well also, and now he has climbed into second spot, just a smidge ahead
of Clinton.
I hope the two of them keep it going and come in 1 - 2 at the end of it all, then Obama
can put Edwards on the ticket with him for the run for the presidency, or visa versa if
things turn around, just hope Clinton doesn't gain next time, and get back into it.
Huckabee won the republican side, seems like a good guy, not the robot that Romney is.
Great speech by Obama last night. He speaks like Martin Luther King but doesn't speak to only one group. I think most can see what he stands for, whereas Hillary is reliant on being a Clinton and hasn't presented much of a vision.
Huckabee seems like a nice guy but I don't think the country needs an evangelical President at this stage.
Huckabee seems like a nice guy but I don't think the country needs an evangelical President at this stage.
Greetings Kreskin!
Is your interest in the American charade of "elecoral process" born out of concern for the people of the United States who've sat by and watched as their government careens out of control or is it for the rest of the world? Do you expect that the philosophy of greed and uncontrolled consumption that has been conditioned into the American psyche will change simply because the chief corporate protecters will change as a result of this shell-game?
Who do you think is more honest...a Canadian politician or an American politician?
Hi Mikey. True, they all run on change but end up digging the same hole deeper.
I find their process fascinating in many ways. Like I can't figure out why primaries start in Iowa and so much political sway is put into one State. There must be a fairly significant historical reason to the process.
Watching them play to the psychology of the electorate is also interesting. Sooner or later everyone has to be born again or committed to reading the bible, at least they have to lie about it if they don't, in order to have a chance. Some use scare tactics as if they were selling home alarm systems. And they all have to dance around the gun lobby and immigration issues, trying to burn both ends of the candles.
Their politics make for better television than ours.
I find their process fascinating in many ways. Like I can't figure out why primaries start in Iowa and so much political sway is put into one State. There must be a fairly significant historical reason to the process.
Watching them play to the psychology of the electorate is also interesting. Sooner or later everyone has to be born again or committed to reading the bible, at least they have to lie about it if they don't, in order to have a chance. Some use scare tactics as if they were selling home alarm systems. And they all have to dance around the gun lobby and immigration issues, trying to burn both ends of the candles.
Their politics make for better television than ours.
Chuck Berris. He looked seriously drugged up. I liked "Make Me Laugh" too.Kreskin
How true! Don't know if you remember a long time ago there was a TV "program" called "The Gong Show"..... renamed recently to "American Election Idol".....
There is nothing funny about it. To me it represents the despicable ruin that is America and of course the monumental waste of hope for change through a democratic process that in fact does not exist and never has.
Lighten up Beve!
Remember....as America continues to enforce it's will around the planet, the draft is bound to be used again. More young Americans sacrificed to the greed of the wealthy while the willingly blind masses take out mortgages they can't pay, consume gasoline they can't afford and watch their drugged-up sports heroes on flat screen TV rented from some cutthroat living the American Dream....
More kids drafted feed the appetities of the wealthy industrialists and petrosexuals = fewer Americans...
It's all good!
Remember....as America continues to enforce it's will around the planet, the draft is bound to be used again. More young Americans sacrificed to the greed of the wealthy while the willingly blind masses take out mortgages they can't pay, consume gasoline they can't afford and watch their drugged-up sports heroes on flat screen TV rented from some cutthroat living the American Dream....
More kids drafted feed the appetities of the wealthy industrialists and petrosexuals = fewer Americans...
It's all good!
Then what!!!!?
In American politics you only have a choice of one robot or another. The last president who tried to break the strangle hold of the monied class was JFK, you'll remember his fate, if you don't I can assure you everyone of those robots do.
It is all good except for the millions of non Americans that will die, not to mention all the other life forms. What has always been required is american civil war, why travel to a forigne country to defend American values when you can conduct the same exercise in your own backyard at a fraction of the cost. If Americans want to save thier country from terrorism they should address the real enemy in thier midst and not bother with manufactured boogymen from mars. The martian invasion of 911.
Beve
There won't be much happening along the lines of civil war in the U.S. because as long as there's "get-out-of-jail-free" cards given to the businesses responsible for giving jobs to wetbacks....the "myth" of global warming is addressed by invading whomever has petroleum resources....the caliber of politicians remains the same....Mr. & Mrs. Pollyanna America believe everything is just fine....what they're told by their mafia government....everyone's too busy watching American Idol and Homer Simpson to be concerned. With the continuing decline in levels of education throughout the U.S. there'll be lots of eager young men joining the military to further convince Americans that they're not responsible for anything...by prosecuting regime-change...invaision and covert prisons all over the globe...etc. etc.
Remember, Americans don't care just ask some of the folk who participate here at CC....
There won't be much happening along the lines of civil war in the U.S. because as long as there's "get-out-of-jail-free" cards given to the businesses responsible for giving jobs to wetbacks....the "myth" of global warming is addressed by invading whomever has petroleum resources....the caliber of politicians remains the same....Mr. & Mrs. Pollyanna America believe everything is just fine....what they're told by their mafia government....everyone's too busy watching American Idol and Homer Simpson to be concerned. With the continuing decline in levels of education throughout the U.S. there'll be lots of eager young men joining the military to further convince Americans that they're not responsible for anything...by prosecuting regime-change...invaision and covert prisons all over the globe...etc. etc.
Remember, Americans don't care just ask some of the folk who participate here at CC....
Canadians are just wringing their hands to bash the next President. Dem...GOP...it does not matter.
No No No Eagle...
Whomever your next president will be is entirely beside the point. People with dollar signs in their eyes have been in control of your nation for years now, this "election" is only the requisite "pomp and ceremony" necessary to convince the "people" that "freedom" and "democracy" are alive and well in America.... Remember when necessary your judiciary will decide who sits in the offal office and who doesn't...
Maybe some other nation will recognize the danger America poses to the rest of the world if allowed to continue on in a pattern similar to how it's been going ....like the action necessitated at Hiroshima and Nagasaki....perhaps that solution will be applied to America... Smile you dealt the pack now play the game!
Whomever your next president will be is entirely beside the point. People with dollar signs in their eyes have been in control of your nation for years now, this "election" is only the requisite "pomp and ceremony" necessary to convince the "people" that "freedom" and "democracy" are alive and well in America.... Remember when necessary your judiciary will decide who sits in the offal office and who doesn't...
Maybe some other nation will recognize the danger America poses to the rest of the world if allowed to continue on in a pattern similar to how it's been going ....like the action necessitated at Hiroshima and Nagasaki....perhaps that solution will be applied to America... Smile you dealt the pack now play the game!