Bhutto follows her father

[Pangloss]

Kreskin and Wally:

The mechanism of her death will be constantly revised for a few days - no doubt there are a few coroners examining her corpse, and theories will fly until they reach some form of consensus.

It is the most important fact that is however, undeniable: this was a well planned attack, unlikely to have been done by one lone fanatic. The job now is to determine who did it. Al-Q and Taliban, most likely, but evidence is still lacking.

DB:

Yeah. . .I've gone and read some of your posts on other threads. I'm gonna pretty much ignore you, just so you know.

Pangloss

 

[Kreskin]

Her corpse is buried.

 

[wallyj]

Just heard the lever case. Also heard that al-qaeda has claimed responsibility. Both from cbc.

 

[darkbeaver]

Kreskin and Wally:

The mechanism of her death will be constantly revised for a few days - no doubt there are a few coroners examining her corpse, and theories will fly until they reach some form of consensus.

It is the most important fact that is however, undeniable: this was a well planned attack, unlikely to have been done by one lone fanatic. The job now is to determine who did it. Al-Q and Taliban, most likely, but evidence is still lacking.

DB:

Yeah. . .I've gone and read some of your posts on other threads. I'm gonna pretty much ignore you, just so you know.

Pangloss

Well suit yourself. I hope you don't mind if I continue to have an interest in your stuff though.

 

[warrior_won]

A: I don't watch TV

That's too bad; you're missing a whole lot of nothing good.

B: Al-Qaeda is a CIA operation

I don't believe that. I don't think that capturing Osama Bin Laden is number one on America's list of priorities, but I don't believe that Al Qaeda is a CIA operation. I think that the U.S. has an agenda that is leveraged by alowing Osama Bin Laden to remain at large.

C: You seem to believe that the ruling clique believe anti-American sentiment and action is a bad thing, it's a perfect control for manufactured reactionary devices.

I implied no such thing.

You should stop watching the Telly. It's conditioning is obvious.

I don't watch much telly. And I don't listen to radio at all.

 

[warrior_won]

Kreskin and Wally:

The mechanism of her death will be constantly revised for a few days - no doubt there are a few coroners examining her corpse, and theories will fly until they reach some form of consensus.

She's Muslim. No autopsy and no embalming. She will be buried within 24 hours of her death, and she will be buried on her side -- facing Mecca.

 

[gopher]

Well if it's so stupid then you can easily hit this one out of the park.

So do it. Make us all smarter. I'd say thank you.

Pangloss

Since when has neoKKKonniver Hitchens become a psychiatrist?

Electra complex? Since when did she kill her mother so that she can get into bed and screw with her father??

If you think SH'Tchens is so smart, let's see some proof that she did anything like that.

 

[darkbeaver]

Aunt Benazir's false promises

Bhutto's return bodes poorly for Pakistan -- and for democracy there.

By Fatima Bhutto

12/13/07 "LA Times" - -- KARACHI -- We Pakistanis live in uncertain times. Emergency rule has been imposed for the 13th time in our short 60-year history. Thousands of lawyers have been arrested, some charged with sedition and treason; the chief justice has been deposed; and a draconian media law -- shutting down all private news channels -- has been drafted.

Perhaps the most bizarre part of this circus has been the hijacking of the democratic cause by my aunt, the twice-disgraced former prime minister, Benazir Bhutto. While she was hashing out a deal to share power with Gen. Pervez Musharraf last month, she repeatedly insisted that without her, democracy in Pakistan would be a lost cause.

The reality, however, is that there is no one better placed to benefit from emergency rule than she is. Along with the leaders of prominent Islamic parties, she has been spared the violent retributions of emergency law. Yes, she now appears to be facing seven days of house arrest, but what does that really mean? While she was supposedly under house arrest at her Islamabad residence last week, 50 or so of her party members were comfortably allowed to join her. She addressed the media twice from her garden, protected by police given to her by the state, and was not reprimanded for holding a news conference. (By contrast, the very suggestion that they might hold a news conference has placed hundreds of other political activists under real arrest, in real jails.)

Ms. Bhutto's political posturing is sheer pantomime. Her negotiations with the military and her unseemly willingness until just a few days ago to take part in Musharraf's regime have signaled once and for all to the growing legions of fundamentalists across South Asia that democracy is just a guise for dictatorship.

It is widely believed that Ms. Bhutto lost both her governments on grounds of massive corruption. She and her husband, a man who came to be known in Pakistan as "Mr. 10%," have been accused of stealing more than $1 billion from Pakistan's treasury. She is appealing a money-laundering conviction by the Swiss courts involving about $11 million. Corruption cases in Britain and Spain are ongoing.

It was particularly unappealing of Ms. Bhutto to ask Musharraf to bypass the courts and drop the many corruption cases that still face her in Pakistan. He agreed, creating the odiously titled National Reconciliation Ordinance in order to do so. Her collaboration with him was so unsubtle that people on the streets are now calling her party, the Pakistan People's Party, the Pervez People's Party. Now she might like to distance herself, but it's too late.

Why did Ms. Bhutto and her party cronies demand that her corruption cases be dropped, but not demand that the cases of activists jailed during the brutal regime of dictator Zia ul-Haq (from 1977 to 1988) not be quashed? What about the sanctity of the law? When her brother Mir Murtaza Bhutto -- my father -- returned to Pakistan in 1993, he faced 99 cases against him that had been brought by Zia's military government. The cases all carried the death penalty. Yet even though his sister was serving as prime minister, he did not ask her to drop the cases. He returned, was arrested at the airport and spent the remaining years of his life clearing his name, legally and with confidence, in the courts of Pakistan.

Ms. Bhutto's repeated promises to end fundamentalism and terrorism in Pakistan strain credulity because, after all, the Taliban government that ran Afghanistan was recognized by Pakistan under her last government -- making Pakistan one of only three governments in the world to do so.

And I am suspicious of her talk of ensuring peace. My father was a member of Parliament and a vocal critic of his sister's politics. He was killed outside our home in 1996 in a carefully planned police assassination while she was prime minister. There were 70 to 100 policemen at the scene, all the streetlights had been shut off and the roads were cordoned off. Six men were killed with my father. They were shot at point-blank range, suffered multiple bullet wounds and were left to bleed on the streets.

My father was Benazir's younger brother. To this day, her role in his assassination has never been adequately answered, although the tribunal convened after his death under the leadership of three respected judges concluded that it could not have taken place without approval from a "much higher" political authority.

I have personal reasons to fear the danger that Ms. Bhutto's presence in Pakistan brings, but I am not alone. The Islamists are waiting at the gate. They have been waiting for confirmation that the reforms for which the Pakistani people have been struggling have been a farce, propped up by the White House. Since Musharraf seized power in 1999, there has been an earnest grass-roots movement for democratic reform. The last thing we need is to be tied to a neocon agenda through a puppet "democrat" like Ms. Bhutto.

By supporting Ms. Bhutto, who talks of democracy while asking to be brought to power by a military dictator, the only thing that will be accomplished is the death of the nascent secular democratic movement in my country. Democratization will forever be de-legitimized, and our progress in enacting true reforms will be quashed. We Pakistanis are certain of this.

Fatima Bhutto is a Pakistani poet and writer. She is the daughter of Mir Murtaza Bhutto, who was killed in 1996 in Karachi when his sister, Benazir, was prime minister.

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[darkbeaver]

This Bhutto case provides us the oportunity to compare the Alternative press with the MSM.
Ms Bhutto was a criminal, with cases progressing against her in multiple countries simultaneously yet the main stream media have in the last 48 hours portrayed her as a bleeding heart liberal, the staunchest most wonderfull fighter for democracy and the aspirations of the common man that god has ever produced. A martyr of biblical proportions, another tear jerking totally bogus misrepresentation of a thieving murdering member of the rotten elite clique.
I tried to listen to Tariq Ali in an interview on CBC earlier today, he was interrupted several times by communications problems and finnally cut off all together, somebody at the mother corp had thier fat finger on the mute button. Fascist bastards. Thier just as bad as CNN or FOX news. He was trying to explain why the elections in Pakistan should be postponed against the wishes of the western coalition, who incidently insist that they should occur as per plan. God help Pakistan, they're next. Right on schedual the murder has been pinned on Al-Queada, christ they're handy to own. All purpose bad guys with a huge network on at least three planets that seems to have the same intelligence capabilitys as you know who. It makes it easy to understand why he's never been arrested.

 

[wallyj]

You start off Ok,and then you lose it with your george bush hatred. I'll bet that you think Bush had more to do with this murder than al-qaeda. DB,you see a Bush behind every bush. It's not like that in the reakl world.

 

[Pangloss]

Since when has neoKKKonniver Hitchens become a psychiatrist?

Electra complex? Since when did she kill her mother so that she can get into bed and screw with her father??

If you think SH'Tchens is so smart, let's see some proof that she did anything like that.

Again with the unreasoned gainsaying and grade-school personal attacks.

I guess this thread has run out of smart.

Sigh.

Pangloss

 

[Pangloss]

Warrior:

Are you sure there was no autopsy (CBC reported minutes ago she has just now been buried)?

State leader assassinated and all, seems to think the state would just bully its way to a post-mortem. . .

I'm going to see if I can find out about an autopsy.

Pangloss

 

[darkbeaver]

You start off Ok,and then you lose it with your george bush hatred. I'll bet that you think Bush had more to do with this murder than al-qaeda. DB,you see a Bush behind every bush. It's not like that in the reakl world.

Hey Wallyj, Bush wasn't in there anywhere. I love GW Bush Wallyj, do you understand, I love Georgie, nobody destroys more American credibility than our boy Georgie, but you're doing your bit.;-)

 

[gopher]

Again with the unreasoned gainsaying and grade-school personal attacks.

I guess this thread has run out of smart.

Sigh.

Pangloss

Oh my dear Pangloss, read the post and you will see that I did not attack you in any way, shape, or form.

:lol:

 

[gopher]

CNN video shows Bhutto being shot first, then came the bomb:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2007/12/28/vo.bhutto.gun.ptv


Warning: GRAPHIC

 

[Pangloss]

Oh my dear Pangloss, read the post and you will see that I did not attack you in any way, shape, or form.

:lol:

Foolish Gopher, why did you assume I thought it was about me? Your personal attack was against Hitchens, instead of what he wrote.

BTW, why the big font?

Pangloss

 

[gopher]

Did you bother to read what that political charlatan wrote?? If you had done so, you would understand how absurd it is.

 

[Pangloss]

Did you bother to read what that political charlatan wrote?? If you had done so, you would understand how absurd it is.

Again, no specifics, no actual refutation of a single fact, just more of the same - empty name calling.

And yes, I did read it. No, I don't agree with all of it. Doesn't mean it isn't smart, well-informed and based on his personal experience and documented fact.

Unlike all of your criticism.

Anyway, this is threadjacking.

Pangloss

 

[gopher]

Oh yeah -- it is a ''fact'' that Bhutto killed her mother so that she could f*ck with her father. That is what is meant by ''Electra complex'' in case you didn't know it. Somehow it is Gospel truth.

After all, Hitchens says so and Pangloss says he can do no wrong.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!


Joke of the Year!

 

[Pangloss]

Gopher:

You misrepresent me (and what I have very clearly written) when you say that I say Hitchens can do no wrong. Also, the "Electra Complex" of which Hitchens writes is not meant to be taken literally.

I think I'm done with you. You're kinda silly and literal minded. Such a shame.

Pangloss