Canada won't oppose death penalty..
- Thread starter Kreskin
- Start date
I think Canadian citizens know the american legal system and expectations well enough to not waste our time fighting their expectations either.
But I think the instant we put down a concrete statement that we won't argue such situations, one will arise which requires a change of our minds.
http://www.aidwyc.org/cases.cfm
The death penalty sure gets rid of that pesky problem of having to admit you screwed it up with all the safe guards and assurances that mistakes don't happen.
Killing someone should be reserved as a response to situations where imminent peril to life or limb exists. Killing someone who is in custody, unable to harm anyone is wrong no matter who does the killing.
The death penalty sure gets rid of that pesky problem of having to admit you screwed it up with all the safe guards and assurances that mistakes don't happen.
Killing someone should be reserved as a response to situations where imminent peril to life or limb exists. Killing someone who is in custody, unable to harm anyone is wrong no matter who does the killing.
Here is my assumption:
Don't go to other countries with crazy laws if you don't want to be subject to them.
If the government forces you to go for some reason, then they should have to get you out and have any pertinent trials in Canada.
Otherwise, simple solution, don't go.
Don't go to other countries with crazy laws if you don't want to be subject to them.
If the government forces you to go for some reason, then they should have to get you out and have any pertinent trials in Canada.
Otherwise, simple solution, don't go.
Yeah but that can happen at any given time really. Look at Pakistan at the moment. All of a sudden there are massive explosions in the street killing hundreds and it's under emergency law whatever that is.
First off, when discussing the death penalty, one should never take it as a given that the crime is amongst the most horrible. One would have to compare all of the cases ever seen before the courts and quantify how many horrible crimes get death penalties and how many don't. In some cases you might simply find that the most horrible crime of the death row convicts are guilty of is reliance upon legal aid or an inability to pay legal bills.
Also, democracy has absolutely no bearing on the justifiability of the death penalty. If 90% of the nation believes that the death penalty should be granted to people who don't wear matching socks, would that make it justifiable? If you think that what a person wears is a little extreme for an example replace person with woman and matching socks with head coverings/modest clothing.
To further both of the above points, it should be noted that consensual homosexual intercourse was once punishable by death in Canada.
Justice is primarily concerned with fairness (as opposed to perfection), rehabilitation and deterrence. There is no argument that it is fair for a Canadian to face the same reasonable punishments as other citizens in nations where they commit crimes. The argument against the death penalty rests on three contentious points about these basic principles, regardless of where it occurs:
Also, democracy has absolutely no bearing on the justifiability of the death penalty. If 90% of the nation believes that the death penalty should be granted to people who don't wear matching socks, would that make it justifiable? If you think that what a person wears is a little extreme for an example replace person with woman and matching socks with head coverings/modest clothing.
To further both of the above points, it should be noted that consensual homosexual intercourse was once punishable by death in Canada.
Justice is primarily concerned with fairness (as opposed to perfection), rehabilitation and deterrence. There is no argument that it is fair for a Canadian to face the same reasonable punishments as other citizens in nations where they commit crimes. The argument against the death penalty rests on three contentious points about these basic principles, regardless of where it occurs:
- The punishment is not reasonable punishment.
- There are more humane methods of ensuring that a person does not reoffend.
- The death penalty has no effect on the violent crime rate.
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The solution still stands. Don't go to Pakistan in the first place, don't go to other countries period unless you're certain its safe.
We most certainly should not oppose the death penalty for anyone convicted of a serious crime in the US. Canada and the US do not share the same judicial system, and until we do, the US is a sovereign country and as such has it's own laws. If you commit a crime in the US, you will face justice in the US, not in Canada.
Would Canadians take kindly to Americans telling them how to run their judicial system? Say for instance an American citizen was arrested in Canada for carrying a firearm without a licence. This would not be a crime in parts of the US, however if the US authorities tried to intervene to get this individual off the hook, how would Canadians react?
Would Canadians take kindly to Americans telling them how to run their judicial system? Say for instance an American citizen was arrested in Canada for carrying a firearm without a licence. This would not be a crime in parts of the US, however if the US authorities tried to intervene to get this individual off the hook, how would Canadians react?
So by that logic, we should never petition for release or extradition of Canadians in a sovereign country? Does that apply to Canadians held in say China? Was PM Harper and former Foreign Affairs Minister Peter MacKay wrong to petition for release of Huseyin Celil?
We aren't trying to change their laws... we aren't trying to get someone off for a crime that they committed... what Canada has said all along is "please do not kill this citizen". That's all.... and it is a reasonable request since Canada has believed in human rights and not the death penalty (up until Harper).
Canada has not "asked" any other country to forgo the death penalty when it comes to anyone besides Canadian citizens. All that has been asked is that Canadian citizens that face the death penalty have their sentences commuted to life without parole. Something that is within the framework of the united states penal system, at least.
China doesn't really count as they don't have a democracy there. They won't as long as they keep supporting Communism.
You never said democracy, you said sovereign nation.
As has been pointed out, and rightly so, democracy is a piss poor yardstick. Democracy can be just as brutal as any other political system.
You're right. I was pretty mad, spewing some Norse god's name, when they drafted and passed bill c-59 within weeks after US pressure this past summer. I was incredible irritated when they threaten us with sanctions and border discrimination when we consider relaxing our drug laws in a democratic manner. I am repeatedly annoyed by attempts by the US government and lobby groups to adjust our copyright laws through trade sanctions.
In short, the US imposes all sorts of pressure upon us in an attempt to effect changes to our legal system in a way which has nothing to do with democracy. We have made a commitment to viewing the death penalty as a cruel form of punishment with the attempts to create an objective sense of justice, our failure to stand by this view makes our legal system nothing short of hypocritical.
One must necessarily accept death as the most ultimate sense of punishment, with the only things possibly worse being fear of death or a position of pain where death is desirable which naturally leads to interpreting death as the ultimate threat. Rights in free and democratic societies can be deprived if that deprivation is justifiable given conditions desirable by all for the society, based on any social contract notion of legitimate authority which democracy is based upon. However, in Canada the test for justifiability is the Oake's Test and the death penalty does not meet the minimal impairment test. If anything, death is maximally impairing, a deprivation of all rights in completeness. The only thing the death penalty accomplishes is to place retribution at the centre of a justice system, thus corrupting it. We cannot sanction the death penalty in other nations and maintain a sense of justice in ours.
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After the death sentence is imposed and the criminal begins the long process of appeals,stays,etc..this is where the cruel and inhuman aspic of the sentence comes. If done,it is best done quickly.
In fact, the time in the appeals process is perhaps the only humane aspect of the whole scenario. It is the only thing that gives the person hope and a chance at redemption. It gives them the opportunity to reflect on their life and how things went. As the terrible retribution is temporarily stayed an individual has the possibility to repent and see the light. Then their neck feels the terrible bite of the guillotine, and they are nothing more than a head in a basket.