Montebello: Police Inciting Violence At Protest?

[elevennevele]

I thought to hold off addressing this issue until more facts have come to light. However things are now clear enough to be incredibly offended by the general premise of it all.

This is so incredibly offensive to my sensibilities. Whether one agrees with the protesters on issues or not, the idea our law enforcement is enacting tactics to undermine Canadian's democratic right to voice dissent, or opposition to the government is truly abominable. That means any of us can be silenced much the same for whatever cause we might have no matter that we might be right, or trying to oppose something so terribly wrong in 'our' country. We all need to send a message to show that Canadians won't stand for this type of tactic in a society such as ours which is suppose to place such a high importance on individual rights.

Who ever is responsible for the decisions made to utilize this sort of tactic should be fired. Interestingly enough, Stockwell Day has already rejected opposition calls for an inquiry. Why? If they have no part in this, then why not take the position of standing on the side of the citizenry to uphold the importance our country places on individual rights? Honestly, the video is pretty plain in showing what happened with real protesters telling those provocateurs to put down their rocks while telling the riot police that such individuals were trying to incite violence. There is no justification for 'observer police officers' to be carrying rocks, and looking and acting militant in a protest when law enforcement is suppose to uphold the law and act accordingly to maintain the peace.

Absolutely disgusting. Harper however did call the protester 'sad' which in itself is very unbecoming of such a title of leadership. Now tell me again what really is 'sad'?!

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070824.wvideo24/BNStory/National/home



QPP admit to 'agents' but not 'provocateurs'
Critics demand RCMP review

UNNATI GANDHI

Globe and Mail Update

August 24, 2007 at 1:25 AM EDT

Opposition parties are calling on the RCMP to review how it handled security at this week's Montebello summit after Quebec's provincial police force admitted late Thursday that three undercover officers had disguised themselves as demonstrators during a protest.

A video of the demonstration broadcast on the Internet – which shows three men with bandanas across their faces and large rocks in their hands taunting union members before being handcuffed and escorted away by police in riot gear – was at the centre of a controversy that erupted following the North American leaders meeting.

Those at the protest said the officers were acting like agents provocateurs by provoking violence from within the crowd.

Both the RCMP and the Sûreté du Québec initially had denied that any of their officers were involved.

Last night, the SQ said the officers were members of the force.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070824.wquebcpol0824/BNStory/National/home


Quebec police to address summit concerns

Canadian Press

August 24, 2007 at 11:53 AM EDT

MONTREAL — Quebec provincial police are holding a news conference later today to explain why three of its agents played the part of protesters at this week's North American Leaders' summit in Montebello, Que.

After originally denying it, the Quebec force has admitted the undercover officers were involved in the protest after a video clip of the trio showed up on the popular website, Youtube.com.

But Quebec provincial police are denying they were attempting to provoke protesters into violence.

Rather, they say the three officers were planted in the crowd to locate any protesters who were not peacefully demonstrating.

The force will hold the news conference at 3:30 p.m. at its downtown Montreal headquarters.

Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day has already rejected opposition calls for an inquiry.

 

[BitWhys]

...Now tell me again what really is 'sad'?!

What's sad is that's the only part of the prepared speech he was able to salvage when things didn't go the way he was hoping. I would have liked to hear it.

 

[Unforgiven]

So we have people being sent to other countries who in turn send then to other countries where they are tortured for months or years and then the charges they used to send them are gone. We have the police posing as violent protesters trying to incite a violent confrontation between peaceful protesters and the riot gear cladded police force.

Any idea how long it will be before politicians in opposition just start disappearing?

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

So we have people being sent to other countries who in turn send then to other countries where they are tortured for months or years and then the charges they used to send them are gone. We have the police posing as violent protesters trying to incite a violent confrontation between peaceful protesters and the riot gear cladded police force.

Any idea how long it will be before politicians in opposition just start disappearing?

They won't disappear, they'll be on "Special Parlimentary Vacation".;-)

 

[BitWhys]

They won't disappear, they'll be on "Special Parlimentary Vacation".;-)

either that or assigned to the Conservative back bench. same thing.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

either that or assigned to the Conservative back bench. same thing.

I'm listening on the radio how the conservatives are setting up representatives in opposition MP ridings and telling people to go to them instead of their elected representatives when dealing with government issues.

Apparently we'll all be conservatives soon whether we want to be or not.

 

[hermanntrude]

I'm listening on the radio how the conservatives are setting up representatives in opposition MP ridings and telling people to go to them instead of their elected representatives when dealing with government issues.

Apparently we'll all be conservatives soon whether we want to be or not.

unless of course people take the drastic action of not going to them, but going to their MPs as they always have done

 

[elevennevele]

The idea of law enforcement manufacturing chaos or unlawfulness to they can justify reason for riot police to march on a bunch of peaceful protesters and stop them from enacting their individual right to protest is step in the direction towards a police state. This is a very dangerous action for a society to allow and already holds precedent in examples which makes me feel sick inside if I were to dare draw comparisons to.

Once the nation's law enforcement starts to 'manufacture' the justification to persecute individuals, we as a society are truly then losing our way.

Why is the current government not demanding an independent investigation into what has happened? The reputation and respect for our law enforcement is already at an all time low. Not taking measures to fairly get to the truth and thus deal with the situation appropriately and with transparency only deepens the public mistrust. To not even take it seriously enough to have the matter dealt with is a huge red flag against public interest and a huge show of contempt for individual rights by a government sworn in to uphold them.

 

[Karlin]

The internet is helping us here - Global TV actually ran this story today!! I guess they could not deny that it happened when so many of us read it on the internet.

The TV news showed that the "agent provocateurs" were wearing THE SAME BOOTS as the arresting officers. Not just illegal and immoral, but DUMB too.

Also very cool is the fact that none of our Canadian Content conservatives are responding to this thread - its pretty clear that this is real and it us ugly and indefensible.

This kind of police action is certainly evidence of the kind of tactics that are being used against us as the corporate-conservative cabal tried to implement its agenda [whatever that is]. It is certainly not about doing "the will of the people", it is the opposite in more ways than one. Aside from the agenda itself, it is the tactics that tell us how bad this will be for Canadians, and citizens anywhere.

 

[YoungJoonKim]

Also very cool is the fact that none of our Canadian Content conservatives are responding to this thread - its pretty clear that this is real and it us ugly and indefensible.

Criticism will never end!
Either it be liberal or conservative
WoOoOOoOo!!

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

Also very cool is the fact that none of our Canadian Content conservatives are responding to this thread - its pretty clear that this is real and it us ugly and indefensible.

The conservatives here don't seem too concerned about our freedoms, it's just about conservative power for most of them. As long as Sleazin' Harper's getting what he wants they're happy as pigs in ****.

 

[Toro]

Also very cool is the fact that none of our Canadian Content conservatives are responding to this thread - its pretty clear that this is real and it us ugly and indefensible.

As a quasi-libertarian, let me answer then.

People have the right to protest. No police force should interfere with this on political grounds.

But people do not have the right to incite violence. If there are people bent on violence, then I have no problem with the police force infiltrating a such a group, no matter what the political leanings of that group.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

As a quasi-libertarian, let me answer then.

People have the right to protest. No police force should interfere with this on political grounds.

But people do not have the right to incite violence. If there are people bent on violence, then I have no problem with the police force infiltrating a such a group, no matter what the political leanings of that group.

The protestors didn't incite to violence, the undercover cops did. They were the ones in masks carrying rocks and confronting the police line. It was the demonstrators that stopped them.

In a state where the authorities don't respect the law there is none.

 

[Niflmir]

As a quasi-libertarian, let me answer then.

People have the right to protest. No police force should interfere with this on political grounds.

But people do not have the right to incite violence. If there are people bent on violence, then I have no problem with the police force infiltrating a such a group, no matter what the political leanings of that group.

You mean the North american conception of libertarianism right?

Yeah, my uncle is a police officer and has explained that they will put plain clothes police officers in the crowds to keep things calm. But I don't think carrying a large rock around fit into his description anywhere.

 

[Unforgiven]

The internet is helping us here - Global TV actually ran this story today!! I guess they could not deny that it happened when so many of us read it on the internet.

The TV news showed that the "agent provocateurs" were wearing THE SAME BOOTS as the arresting officers. Not just illegal and immoral, but DUMB too.

Also very cool is the fact that none of our Canadian Content conservatives are responding to this thread - its pretty clear that this is real and it us ugly and indefensible.

This kind of police action is certainly evidence of the kind of tactics that are being used against us as the corporate-conservative cabal tried to implement its agenda [whatever that is]. It is certainly not about doing "the will of the people", it is the opposite in more ways than one. Aside from the agenda itself, it is the tactics that tell us how bad this will be for Canadians, and citizens anywhere.

I find it a bit scary really that as this story emerges the real reaction is to make sure the next ones don't have tells that tip every one off that they are police. Fix the boot problem, a drop the rock policy, and make sure that there is a good communication mechanism from the head that can't be traced back.

As for all out cries, pay special attention to the hommage of the scapegoat.
Or is that escape goat? ;-)

 

[MikeyDB]

Politicians have always lied to constituents. Police are in the business of maintaining the status quo. When the status quo is eliminating citizen participation in discussions that will have outcomes that shape the quality of life and the living standards of millions, the idea of "democracy" is dead.

When there's a belief in the appropriateness and a preparedness to employ fraud as device to demonize citizens, while unsavory perhaps, it isn't against the law. This event may represent as an example the quality and character of the QPP and by association, the "leaders" protecting the elitism of the wealthy, but does it say anything more than that?

It may mean that what the average citizen sees on his/her TV isn't representative of the "truth" at all. It may mean that enough people in positions of authority in this country hold law and integrity as principles in contempt. It may mean that people shouldn't trust either government or police agencies to behave with integrity and honesty.

There's really nothing "new" here after all....

Paul Martin's Liberals stole millions....

RCMP and CSIS supplied lies exaggerations and misinformation to the CIA and American police authorities and Maher Arar was imprisoned and tortured....

CSIS and the RCMP made sure the Air India terrorism was buried for 22 years....


It must make Canadians proud to see the dead bodies of young service people returning from Afghanistan.....

 

[Karlin]

Deaths could have resulted if rock thrown

Ahhh, so we did get an 'its ok' response, from Toro -

But people do not have the right to incite violence. If there are people bent on violence, then I have no problem with the police force infiltrating a such a group, no matter what the political leanings of that group.

Ya, "people who incite violence must be arrested". Good point Toro, but don't you see what that means here? - IF PM HARPER ORDERED THIS 'AGENT PROVOCATEUR' TACTIC, WHICH COULD HAVE RESULTED IN DEATHS OF PROTESTERS IF THOSE ROCKS HAD BEEN THROWN AND POLICE RESPONDED WITH FORCE AGAINST THE PROTESTERS, THEN PM HARPER SHOULD BE ARRESTED.

Like someone else here relied, it was the police[and whoever ordered them to use this tactic], who were inciting the violence in sending in those UC cops with rocks in hand.

Ok, sorry for shouting, but I am getting more and more concerned about what this means. It is scary to think that lives could have been lost because of this police tactic.

Who did order it?
Is it not worth of an inquiry?

If we let this slide, we will be subjected to more of the same, thats a certainty.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

Very good points, this goes far beyond partisan politics, and is becoming a public safety issue.

This calls for a serious inquiry independent of the government which was responsible for security at the summit.

 

[Toro]

Ahhh, so we did get an 'its ok' response, from Toro -

I didn't realize you're a proponent of criminal gang activities, Karlin.

If there is a group that is known to incite violence, then I want the police to stop it. Most law-abiding people do.

A tactic to do so is infiltration. Law enforcement infiltrates all sorts of groups - from the Hell's Angels to drug traffickers to neo-Nazi groups.

Should they infiltrate a political organization because of their views? No, regardless if it is a left-wing or a right-wing group. Should it infiltrate a political organization if it incites violence, regardless if it is a left-wing or a right-wing group? Yes. Absolutely.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

I didn't realize you're a proponent of criminal gang activities, Karlin.

If there is a group that is known to incite violence, then I want the police to stop it. Most law-abiding people do.

A tactic to do so is infiltration. Law enforcement infiltrates all sorts of groups - from the Hell's Angels to drug traffickers to neo-Nazi groups.

Should they infiltrate a political organization because of their views? No, regardless if it is a left-wing or a right-wing group. Should it infiltrate a political organization if it incites violence, regardless if it is a left-wing or a right-wing group? Yes. Absolutely.

I can see the conservative spin machine is going into operation again.

It was the police who were inciting violence here, something you don't want to accept. Same as Day who is using the same crap argument that you are. The police weren't infiltrating a political organization, they were trying to incite a peaceful protest into attacking a police line.