Psychedelic substances and spiritual development

[Dreadful Nonsense]

Vereya , I am glad you posted more of your expierence. I'm not in the mood to post mine...would like to see unforgiven's inner box's. but alas sigh...well we shall see....he can be inspiring , he's done it for me before....I wanted this to shift to personnal expierence....I had one really mind opening expierence...I don't want to write about it like a tale...i want the impact it had....the head space i was in, knowing it would soon fade.

It left me with a vivid memory of the moment and impression of what we are on certain levels....Well precisely on this level ,here on earth.....


I didn't mean to demean the expierence with my talk of forgotten enlightenment...I have expierenced almost every time i smoked up on weed that very head space...I don't consider weed much of a psychedelic drug...ok I will say for me...i have had mind opening expierence on weed if I'm honest..but mostly just the euphoric delusion of enlightened expierence.....soon forgotten....I'm pretty sure it was just delusional....

please forgive me if I don't write about it tonight....i will though i promise.....lil tired

 

[Vereya]

I didn't mean to demean the expierence with my talk of forgotten enlightenment...I have expierenced almost every time i smoked up on weed that very head space...I don't consider weed much of a psychedelic drug...ok I will say for me...i have had mind opening expierence on weed if I'm honest..but mostly just the euphoric delusion of enlightened expierence.....soon forgotten....I'm pretty sure it was just delusional....

please forgive me if I don't write about it tonight....i will though i promise.....lil tired

I agree with you on the point that weed, like Salvia, is not a "full-fledged" psychedelic, so to say. However, there is a huge difference between smoking it before you've ever been in a psychedelic trip, and after one. When you smoke it before you've ever used any psychedelics, the only thing it ever does is bring you into a nice relaxed state, maybe help you grasp some interesting idea, not more. But its effect somewhat changes after the first trip. It often brings flash-backs of the altered state you had in your trip. And it acquires greater psychedelic properties, if I can say so. At least this is what I personally had experienced - now marijuana allows me to model some small situations, or to model myself in a small degree.

And I am really looking forward to getting to know your experience, DocDred :smile:

 

[Vereya]

IFinally emotions play a very important part in our development... why would controlling them be beneficial. They are part of our total learning experience.

As usual, I am in awe of your thoughts...

Thank you for your words, Curiousity, it is nice to have your ideas appreciated! :smile:

However, you have touched upon a very interesting moment in your post. Very often when I mention controlling one's emotion I get the kind of reaction that I got from you. Sometimes it can even be very negative. Emotions are a very significant part of everyone's life, our emotions make us differ from each other, and give us our uniqueness. When I am talking about controlling emotions, I never mean totally eliminating them, or turning them off, or something of the kind. In fact, I am a very emotional person. I form attachments very easily, I can be very quick-tempered sometimes, I get angry, I get sad, I get happy. Experiencing emotions is one thing, and I am not urging to give it up. I don't think that it is possible to do it, being human. And I don't think that it is really necessary. What is necessary, in my opinion, is to control your emotions, so as not to let them control your life. Recall, just how sensible do you act, when you are really angry? Or do you always stay reasonable when you are really hurt? these are just two simplest examples. In this sense psychedelics give you a new kind of awareness, that allows you to really control yourself. This new awareness allows you to evaluate a situation objctively in a matter of several seconds, discover the right kind of reaction, and respnd accordingly. Besides, it also allows you to stay in a calm and "open" mood, and it is a great gain indeed. Very often, when we are too upset over some little thing, we get so wrapped up in our sadness, that we miss other nice things coming our way. Or, when we are angry with something, we might just pour it out onto others, and really hurt someone else, in turn, and create a serious problem. And once you get these 'side effects" under control, you find that you have a lot more time, energy, positive things in your life, and a lot less problems and negative things.

 

[Unforgiven]

Can't wait to read about Dav's mind opening experience!

 

[Curiosity]

Vereya

I spend my working hours masking my emotions by necessity - as many of us do - in my case imperative - and at the end of a busy day I am ready to expell what I have stored up - and to examine
my gut reactions to things I hear from others - as they apply to me.

It is an exercise I am trained to work within, but yet I still refuse to escape to an easier path than exploration of self - without assistance - whether I am in control or have lost it - because it is the only way I can understand the roots of my reactions.

Forums are another outlet for me because my rules can be changed - and I can experience delight, humor, sadness, frustration and seething anger - and allow the feelings to work their way through my system, whether I choose to dissect them or not - whether they are worth my time or not - all the while I can acknowledge they are there and they are real.

They are proof I am a human with all the faults and frailties we humans have - because much of our lives our working towards overcoming much of what we see as negatives in our lives...that is: overcoming ...or running in fear of them.

I have to do it in full possession of my virgin mind.... unenhanced. Whether it will be enough for me or not - only time will give me the answers. Perhaps by then it won't matter at all. I will have lived.
That is enough.

It is simply my choice.

Yours choice is yours alone - and no doubt you are fully aware of the boundaries necessary.

I only wish to let you know I think your brain is beautiful enough as it is to become your own explorer within.

 

[DurkaDurka]

I have never used psychedelics specifically for spiritual development, like most young people who take them, it was for the "trip". I find psychedelics fog my brain too much afterwards to gain much spiritual enlightenment from the trip. Also, some trips can get downright scary and it's not something you can easily control or enjoy.

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

Can't wait to read about Dav's mind opening experience!

Well thank you unforgiven...I'm sure you haven't slipped into your old ways of making grandiose statements and implying you have some hidden knowledge, kept only for the very exlusive.Never to be revealed.
It will be nice to read your contribution.....

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

The problem I'm pondering, and hopefully this will show you where i am at on this....Is...How does one impart in type, a shift in attitude, a shift in the way one views the very existance one is a part of.....i'm not that good a writer and want my written expierence deserving of the impact I had one day in a park ,alone with my dog Lucky,a border collie.

 

[Unforgiven]

Oh I'm new here, not a reg like some people seem to think. So there aren't any old ways to slip into. winkety wink.

I have nothing personal I would want to share in this thread, but I really can't wait to see what you've concocted to post here. I'm sure it will be informative and amusing.

Well thank you unforgiven...I'm sure you haven't slipped into your old ways of making grandiose statements and implying you have some hidden knowledge, kept only for the very exlusive.Never to be revealed.
It will be nice to read your contribution.....

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

A key can only unlock a box, to show what is already there.

after a very in depth post by vereya you posted this. I was curious to know what box you were talking about..It's a valid question.
The key is obvious, the psychedelic.

then you go on here

If one is able to accept what it is that is in the box. Some people refuse to look at anything other than what they want to see. Hence the true value of a guide. It's not to have someone take you where you want to go, it's someone who can bring you back safely.

I've had some of the most fun on psychedelics. I've always taken great care with them and had a deep respect of the power that is wrapped up with taking them

so now the above brings us more flowery nice talk without any substance..It's a valid assessment.
well the substance of fun i can see hence the whole fake shamanesque warning by me....but you are in a serious thread talking about guides and your addition of keys and boxes, though flowery leave me wondering....
I would like to see an elaboration is all....


prediction: not going to happen, just more inuendo about my expierence....fun times with unforgiven...

 

[Unforgiven]

While you clearly want to turn this thread into a flame war, nothing new there for you, I want nothing to do with it. You can bait and troll to your hearts content but I'm not interested in talking about what is way over your head, since you have had no experience in it yourself or so you've said.

So go nuts, I like others, remain happy to ignore you.

after a very in depth post by vereya you posted this. I was curious to know what box you were talking about..It's a valid question.
The key is obvious, the psychedelic.

then you go on here

so now the above brings us more flowery nice talk without any substance..It's a valid assessment.
well the substance of fun i can see hence the whole fake shamanesque warning by me....but you are in a serious thread talking about guides and your addition of keys and boxes, though flowery leave me wondering....
I would like to see an elaboration is all....


prediction: not going to happen, just more inuendo about my expierence....fun times with unforgiven...

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

While you clearly want to turn this thread into a flame war, nothing new there for you, I want nothing to do with it. You can bait and troll to your hearts content but I'm not interested in talking about what is way over your head, since you have had no experience in it yourself or so you've said.

So go nuts, I like others, remain happy to ignore you.

Ha...told ya.....

Sooooo yer comments to moi were not bait and trolling.....i politely asked a valid question......you came in this morn will a lil jab ......it's obvious...
But it's ok for you to ask curiosity what something means.....

dude .....just stay real....
i'm not flaming you...just pointing out to the good people your troll game mixed with your grandiose meanderings that when asked to be clarified one ends up with more trolling.....

I don't mind being wrong or in this case if my expierence doesn't measure up to some trolls expectation brace for the make fun fest!!!!
thats ok at least i contribute!!!

you trolled me in the live earth thread with the exact same game......
i'm not hijacking the thread....just assessing one of the contributors comments....if one wants to post something they read somewhere and imply they are like a guru they better well have the expierence to back it up......

 

[Unforgiven]

Preparation has a lot to do with out come. A side from the psychedelic aspect
there is mood alteration and reaction to stymulis that play a role in the effect a drug will have. Also, what goes unmentioned often is the disposition and mental make up of the person to begin with.

Most people who experiment with this for the first few times usualy are doing it just for the high. Little if any preparation to a spiritual reflection is considered. Recording the moments can be exceptually difficult if you don't have support or someone experienced leading you along the path.

I have never used psychedelics specifically for spiritual development, like most young people who take them, it was for the "trip". I find psychedelics fog my brain too much afterwards to gain much spiritual enlightenment from the trip. Also, some trips can get downright scary and it's not something you can easily control or enjoy.

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

i know i am not going to be able to articulate this proper like,but here goes.I have been thinking to use poetic liscence in the way, that it might be presented but lets see......


first off spiritually at this point in my life i was a total athiest, never gave the thought of reincarnation any thought...had taken the TM meditation course but that was shrouded in science even though we did this Jai Guru Dev thing which we all had no idea what was going on.....so zero religion and zero knowledge of reincarnation except knowing what it ment.....


I was 13 ,in '69 when first dropped me first hit of lsd.....real lsd not the acid bathtub mixture you see today...although i do have a few friends that from time time find the real deal...last time i did the real deal was in the late 80's...

But the expierence was on what was called synthetic mescaline in montreal.
LSD is called a trip for it really is a trip. the term is used differently today , as is tripping....But Pure LSD takes 4 hours after you eat it to hit your peak which lasts 20 minutes and then a slow descent of another 4 hours....the effects are there till you go to sleep....I say this for the syntha mesc was more like a drug...it comes on you and stays and wears off....we used to snort it so you get high real quick.....I used it a lot for it was very smooth, made everything beautiful, gave you that acid way of thinking without the going up wierdness of LSD..In me it was always accompanied with LOVE LOVE and more LOVE....so I was into this stuff pretty regular.....
the day of this expierence;
i was 16 it was summer and i did a batch at about 2 in the afternnon by myself.....walked home and got me dog Lucky....Lucky was with me a lot...i used no leash. she never crossed the streets without waiting for me to give the "Shoooooot". she was no hassle at all and all friend....

So here i am looking over the football field really into the mesc....Lucky was running round doing her thing all over the park...no scoop and poop deal in those days..unheard of lol.....

Ok so my thinking was shifting and i was suddenly really aware of me being in an enviorement and that enviroment was my body....This word to descibe it came to me at the time and repeated in my mind a few times....HUSK....
I was in a HUSK.....at the same time i was aware of like ..me as a spirit/consciousness/no words for it/ in a HUSK....t H h U i S n K g.....

I knew ,i really knewthat I had been in different HUSKS before. Some were better equipped to think the way i was thinking at that moment and i also knew that in this HUSK one needed what I was on to see this as I was seeing this....

Lucky was in her HUSK but it was completely inferior to mine on this planet.
That being said I also knewthat Lucky knew me, loved me and we communicated all the time with or without words and body language.
I became awar that we all were these beings trapped in different HUSKS to live in these different worlds......
again I really knew there were other places/planetsthat i lived on trapped in not really husks like these but similiar.......

It was a moment that faded in intensity ...No matter how much more of the syntha mesc i injested on other occaision i could never regain the impact and the being close to that knowledge in that way........I did not have anymore that day......but it was like a personnal goal to regain that head space.....
Was it a key that unlocked a box in my head....


Unforgiven..i wish this chit btw us would not get in the way anymore.....can you help me out with that

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

As for other planets...i was also really keen to feel part of the planet ..and this HUSK came from this planet...And thoughts of other planets were like as common as the beautiful day i was in.....

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

Dexter's8O going to have a field day with this one:roll:....I'm cool Dexter..i can dig your post....

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Well, not really. I said pretty much everything I have to say on this subject, I'd only be repeating myself and getting increasingly impolite about it, so I've deliberately stayed out of this foolishness. (See? There I go already.) The thought of surrendering control of my mind to anything, drink or drugs or whatever, appalls me.

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

Well, not really. I said pretty much everything I have to say on this subject, I'd only be repeating myself and getting increasingly impolite about it, so I've deliberately stayed out of this foolishness. (See? There I go already.) The thought of surrendering control of my mind to anything, drink or drugs or whatever, appalls me.

Actually apart from the odd scotch and threat i'm the same....those days are long gone...It was a valid expierence....made me look at things from a differnet angle.....It's really hard to impart the whole in type, to expect anyone who has done the real deal to understand it is impossible...well maybe not the outcome....

 

[talloola]

I wouldn't miss one day of my 'real' everyday life, by putting some chemical into my body that
doesn't belong there.
Thanks Dex, as I was beginning to think I was the only one.

I get real joy from feeding myself substances from the earth that I know makes my mind and body
healthy and happy.

Guess I sounds pretty 'square' aye? Wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

I wouldn't miss one day of my 'real' everyday life, by putting some chemical into my body that
doesn't belong there.
Thanks Dex, as I was beginning to think I was the only one.

I get real joy from feeding myself substances from the earth that I know makes my mind and body
healthy and happy.

Guess I sounds pretty 'square' aye? Wouldn't have it any other way.

I don't think you or Dexter are square....
I don't recomend these things to anyone either.
But that does not take away from the expierence.

psychadelic use is a lot different than weed or heroin or meth alchol coke....
.