Had enough of Harper?

[Cobalt_Kid]

For the leader of one of the weakest minorities in Canadian history Harper has been acting with an arrogance that makes even Pierre Trudeau look humble. One of his first moves as PM was to ignore the spirit of the democractic process and invite a high profile Liberal into his party with promises of a yummy cabinet post and all the perks that come with it.

He also decided that this same government which barely squeeked out a victory was so radically different from what came before that it had to have a new name, thus "Canada's New Government" was born.

Some of his other early moves were to bring the same media advisors that have served Bush so well in pulling the wool over peoples eyes south of the border to come ply their trade here. Not only were big changes going to be made, but we weren't supposed to find out about till later.

His Afghanistan policy also smacks of arrogance, in the most serious military deployment since Korea there's been no real debate and vote, Harper seems more interested in how leaders south of the border view our mission there than Canadians do. And like in the U.S. we weren't going to be able to see images of our fallen returned home to hide the real dimensions of the loss.

Throw in strong-arming the lumber industry, the wheat board and his solution to the fiscal imbalance that once again sees the lions share of transfer payments($1.6 billion) going to Quebec to buy support and how is this government any different from what we had.

Now finally people are starting to catch on.

Canadians have learned that we may be sending prisoners to torture and the government just sat on the knowledge for over a year. N.S. and N.L. have been stabbed in the back to pay for all that largesse going to Quebec. The PM has also decided that he's going to break some of the oldest traditions in this country and not appoint senators, N.S. has four vacancies right now, and committies are going without a quorum for the first time in Canadian history. There's a movement afoot to force the PM to live up to the requirements of the constituion whether he likes it or not. Add in intentional tactics by the government to create chaos in the Parliment and we're left with a pretty dismal picture of a government that many hoped would bring more accountability to Canadian politics not less.

Have you had enough?

 

[Niflmir]

You forgot to add that overwhelmingly the justice committee heard that the mandatory minimum sentences would make the streets more dangerous, not safer, and they decided to push it forward anyways because "We made a promise..."

That he released a 200 page manual to members of committee on how to stall motions and bills in committee that are ideologically opposed by the conservative party.

And that the Atlantic provinces are increasingly becoming alienated and displeased, even and especially Atlantic conservative MLA's. Has a provincial government ever taken the federal government to court before? That would be something to have on your chapter of history.

 

[Colpy]

Well, I do occassionally think I've had enough of Harper......then I consider the alternatives.

I'm not happy about it, but the CPC still gets my vote.

Dion and Layton are just SO much worse.

I sympathize with those longing for a new Reform Party.

 

[DaSleeper]

I kinda miss Preston Manning's ideology..........

 

[Walter]

For the leader of one of the weakest minorities in Canadian history Harper... Have you had enough?

He's made one of the weakest minorities last a long time.

 

[jjaycee98]

He's made one of the weakest minorities last a long time.

And I hope it continues!

 

[MikeyDB]

Well, I do occassionally think I've had enough of Harper......then I consider the alternatives.

I'm not happy about it, but the CPC still gets my vote.

Dion and Layton are just SO much worse.

I sympathize with those longing for a new Reform Party.

Hey Colpy how's it goin dude!

Wouldn't it be nice if a man or woman of integrity stepped onto the political stage in Canada?

Instead the legacy of lies and corruption continue to infect Canadian politics. Would a nation that doesn't appear prepared to hold its government accountable really care?

These are of course difficult times...difficult times when you consider that the governments of our time have no qualms of any kind about lying to the people of their own nations and the world.

Perhaps it's naive to believe in the potential of honesty in government....

If your pals in the military industiral complex want Christmas bonuses then you lie to the people of America and take that nation to war....

If your pals in resources and industry want Christmas bonuses then you accept the theft of a billion dollars as "business as usual" and plunk a forestry industry lacky into a cabinet post....

If your pals in justice want Christmas bonuses, you hide the corruption behind Air India , Mayerthorpe, the RCMP pension fund scandal etc. etc.

Canadian democracy is democracy of the elite...when Stronach or Strong or the likes of Conrad Black or any of the white-collar criminals that run our governments want more wealth and more power, their vote not the vote of the people are what is used by the governments of our nations to create both domestic and foreign policy....

Canada isn't a democracy Colpy...stopped being that elusive notion many years ago. It doesn't really matter if its the CPC or the Liberals or the NDP or the Pink Elephant Party that's stealing from us all, so long as there's no integrity in political office....members elected by one group can cross the floor and slip into cabinet posts....unelected....

Rules can be ignored when it comes to NAFTA and international law....Canada supports the U.S. in its disdain for the Geneva Conventions.....

So long as the wealthy elite of this nation are happy...so long as the petroleum cartels can continue to rob Canadians at the gas pumps....everything is peachy keen...

Just don't examine the realities of "democracy" in North America...you're bound to be disappointed.

 

[jimmoyer]

Hey MikeyDB !!

Let's be kind to politicians this week.

Once we immortal voters even consider running for office we lose our sancrosanct righteousness and we lose our immortality. And then we find out how really difficult it is.

We discover that our alternatives mean voting for the whole bill or against the whole bill, full of amendments we like and don't like.

The choices often get so complicated, that a politician can ever barely explain it to the voter needing simplicity.

And what is simplicity ? Is it not a fantasy ?

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

He's made one of the weakest minorities last a long time.

He didn't have any real opposition for the first 10 months, any competent leader would have been able to turn that into a majority. Instead Harper was trying to build Canada into the neocon state that he admires so much south of the border, he should have checked to see if that's what Canadians really wanted first. Bad manners in my view.

 

[BitWhys]

He bought another year off of Duceppe. maybe. Funny part is it didn't even buy him any Quebec votes.

 

[Toro]

No, I have not had enough of Harper.

Hopefully, we'll have him for another 10 years.

That would be awesome!

 

[BitWhys]

yeah

well

you've always been a big fan of record government spending

 

[MikeyDB]

Hey MikeyDB !!

Let's be kind to politicians this week.

Once we immortal voters even consider running for office we lose our sancrosanct righteousness and we lose our immortality. And then we find out how really difficult it is.

We discover that our alternatives mean voting for the whole bill or against the whole bill, full of amendments we like and don't like.

The choices often get so complicated, that a politician can ever barely explain it to the voter needing simplicity.

And what is simplicity ? Is it not a fantasy ?

Hi Jim..

What makes choosing correct apropriate behaviour and attitude so difficult?

When a nation of citizens enshrine their moral theses and principles of justice in a legal document, where is the ambiguity...where is the complexity beyond simple straightforward thought?

Isn't there a document in the United States referred to as the Constitution? Isn't there somewhere in that document a framework describing the dynamic and structures of law that a civil society use to achieve compromise between personal appettites and interests and the greater interests and "good" of the people ....?

We have something like the Constitution here in Canada, but unlike the American constitution we have a government that can choose whenever they like to ignore and break that contract with the people.

Where is the obscurity and complexity in saying .."Yes we will make treaties and agreements with the native people of our nation and we will honor our comittment to those treaties and agreements in a timely fashion.."?

Where is the complexity that obscures the simplicity of embracing the notion of "democracy" and then turning around to hand cabinet posts to individuals NOT ELECTED by the people of that nation?...Is it profoundly simple on my part to believe that a democracy isn't a philosophical construct that is fluid and subject to appointments....regardless of the wishes of the electorate? Does the appointment of ministers NOT ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE to cabinet posts sound like the actions of a DEMOCRACY?

I can reduce everything from NAFTA and foreign policy to the simplest terms possible and you know what becomes readily apparent..?

Our governments aren't democratic at all, and the will of the people of a nation are sacrificed time and time again to the expediency of placating either a powerful "voting-block" or an election campaign donator's interests.... We will play second fiddle to the Jewish lobby in the Whitehouse and conduct foreign policy in the Middle East according to their agenda and their wishes because there are more Jewish votes in New York State than all of Israel!

We will satisfy the forestry products industry in America because if we don't accede to their demands for greater profits we will become victim to American political will that can strangle our borders closed with passport regulations...with inspections regulations with fees and service contracts when we fly with all kinds of hurdles placed in the way...and so the political process is turned as weapon against the world to placate the wealthy and the powerful....

I'm afraid Jim that I'm unable to see exactly how the behaviors of both the American government and the Canadian government can be regarded as exemplars of a functioning democracy when with relatively little effort that lie can be exposed...quite easily.

If our governments persevere in effecting trials at Nuremberg, regard Slobodan Milosovic and Saddam Hussein as war criminals and cite precedents established through the Nuremberg trials and the Geneva accords...how do we synthesize the action of these same governments when they choose to ignore those rules and conventions becuase it isn't as convenient to some hidden agenda?

Don't buy into this legalese and bafflegab that the likes of Ken Lay and Fastow or Conrad Black and Johnny Cochrane spew to hide the culpability of Enron and Hollinger and O.J. Simpson..., it's not that complicated a question.

You can choose to live by the system of laws and standards you contributed to erecting as a nation and a member of the world community or you can act without conscience and behave outside the bounds of law...making your democracy and your "rule of law" a lie.

It's happening all around us Jim....and Candians sit by and wag their chins at the Bush circus while the Canadian Harper...Martin and Chretien Follies are obvious to anyone except the disasterously stupid or the morbidly ignorant....

Which I suppose might be an accurate description of most Canadians...

 

[Niflmir]

Well, I do occassionally think I've had enough of Harper......then I consider the alternatives.

I'm not happy about it, but the CPC still gets my vote.

Dion and Layton are just SO much worse.

I sympathize with those longing for a new Reform Party.

Well, I will lay it on the line and explain my reasons for voting in the upcoming election (about 2 years from now?). I voted conservative last time, and things have gone about the way I expected, including the crazy conservative things that I didn't want, but hey life is full of sacrifices. This time around, I really want to see two things: 1) More minority government. 2) Electoral reform to make minority governments more workable.

As I pointed in another thread, unless you vote for the conservatives or the liberals, your vote isn't worth as much, so systemic bias increases voter apathy: the makeup of parliament does not accurately reflect the way the people voted. Statistically, it doesn't matter if you show up to vote or not. On principals, a vote is an endorsement for the system. So the easiest way to say I want electoral reform is not to endorse the system, that is: not to vote. Furthermore, there is so few women in parliament, which is simply the manifestation of the extra cultural barriers that women face before they nominate themself, which increases my displeasure with the electoral system.

There are fewer democracies in the world which are single member plurality than proportional democracies. No single member plurality democracy has yet attained a 30% female population in the national legisltature, or corresponding proportions of minorities for that matter. There is also no reason to think this will be so until all the remaining cultural barriers vanish, which will be a long time in coming.

All that goes a long way to say that a priori, my vote would best be spent in absence. By refusing to vote, I refuse to endorse a manifest discrimination, a manifest unfair representation, although I acquiesce to the result. Statistically, it makes no difference to begin with. Yet there is one party which fights for these very issues, one and only one party: the NDP. OK, granted I am more than a little confused with their siding with bill C-10, amongst other things, but equality of results in Parliament is such an important matter that I can deal with with such an incompetent bill. I will vote NDP simply because they (and to a lesser extent the Bloc Quebecois, who I cannot vote for) seek a genuine representation of women and parliament, understand the special barriers they face which is a qualification in and of itself, and seek to rectify the vote imbalance.

On the principals of an egalitarian society, I can only vote for the New Democrat Party in the upcoming election. Sadly, as the thread I linked shows, such a vote will only be worth half a vote because of the workings of our current electoral system.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

I'm disappointed the conservatives didn't give more power to individual MPs, why do we have over 300 well paid representatives in Ottawa if all they're doing is voting as they're told. One of things I disliked about Chretians mandate is how most of the decision and policy making was being done by a few,mostly un-elected, indivduals in the PMO. I think if anything the situtation is even worse under Harper, and we know even less of what's going on behind closed doors because of the very tight control of the "message" that the conservatives are engaging in.

That's not the way democracies are meant to be run, voters depend on accurate information to make informed choices. IMO what's been going on under the conservatives is election fraud, a lot of gimics to get votes but no real honesty in the direction they're taking us.

 

[MikeyDB]

Niflmir

An erudite synopsis. For the majority of my life I've not voted and would disagree with the sentiment that becuase one does not vote one must acquiesce to the outcome. If one entertains the argument as valid, that a democracy is a representative government...and the exercise/authority of that democracy is usurped by powerful lobby interests, paralyzed by corruption and ineptitude inherent to the poor quality and ineffectual efforts of the people "elected", frustrated by international agreements broken and the world turned on its ear, to please the wealthy elite who manipulate government and society with only their personal wealth and intrerests as the guiding 'principle' at work behind the scenes, that construct ceases to be a democracy. "Voting" legitimizes that sham and we have witnessed elections manipulated and the entire electoral process in Canada and the United States reduced to a dysfunctional unwieldly and highly dubious process that was scorned and ridiculed when a similar condition was witnessed in banana republics and quasi-democracies around the world.

A democracy can only function as a democracy when the informed population of a nation is presented with alternatives and leadership/management by the executive/administration that provides a means whereby the elected representatives are held accountable. We, the democracies of Canada and America have witnessed decades of governments operating without the checks and balances of full disclosure and accountability. We have had our nations taken to war in various arenas around the world not to "right" a clear and present "wrong", but to satisfy the military industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about. When a legacy of corruption existing at the highest altitudes of business and commerce becomes the 'staus quo', when administrations tell the electorate bare-faced lies and fabricate hysteria purporting an urgent requirement for militarism, when the well-being of the domestic populations of our nations are sacrificed in the name of prosecuting these ersatz "wars", when the standard of living and the quality of life of the far greater majority of the population is sacrificed to the interests, power structures and exclusivity of the wealthy, democracy is dead.

We are living in the remanants of what could have been great nations. We are living in the ruins of a framework of principles and philosophies left abandoned at the door of greed and personal interest. We are powerless to prevent the "elected" administrations of our governments from wasting our children's future and abandoning any and all responsibility to our social frameworks.

Thirty million Canadians living in the richest nation on earth...three-quarters of a million of whom rely on foodbanks to survive. One of the worlds greatest resource development potentials sacrificed to the organized criminality of petroleum corporations, banks and industries used by individuals and blocks of the wealthy elite to siphon off the prosperity and progress that ought to belong to everyone and participated in by everyone....

And responsibility for the many wrongs, the cycles of injustice and rampant corruption and criminality accepted today by the "voting-public" rests with the people. It sits at the feet of a conditioned to apathy, cowed by both the myth and misuse of power and frustrated population that has all but surrendered the nations that millions died to defend in two world wars. The "middle-man" who skims his exorbiant fees from the farmer and the hersdsman who produce our food and live on the edge of anarchy as our system crumbles around us. The "corporate elite" who've manipulated their way into the halls of justice and administration sitting as "representative government" officers of the crown and the administration with only their personal agendas as those that widen the gap between the dirt poor and the magnificently wealthy.

We have no one to blame but ourselves.

 

[jimmoyer]

Some suggestions:

1. None of the Above.
This should be a ballot option in all elections. It prevents our leaders from claiming a mandate.


2. Tax code simplicity.

Clean out all the deductions, exemptions. Do not use the tax code to manipulate behavior. Let the outright tax manipulate behavior, not loopholes, exemptions and deductions.

This puts a severe limit on lobbyists corrupt influence. Use outright subsidy expenditures for more transparency, to account for a more obvious payoff visible to all, not hidden in a complex tax code.
Let us see the true cost of government to our own pockets and the true cost of subsidy any human endeavor.

3. BICAMERAL EQUALITY For Canada.
Create a Senate that gives equal representation to each province. The House should represent population of each province. Sound familiar ?

4. Winner Take All for Canada.
You are not happy with all the tweaking of the weighted proportional system of valuing some votes more than others. Teach others that all VOTES count, even if you lose. Is it worth the excercise running a race if you lose ? Why enter any competition ?

 

[missile]

All of our voteds do count . There's a formula where every vote for a Party means X amount of dollars going to them,so The NDP and the Greens have a nice War Chest in reserve. And Harper? I'd still vote for him today.

 

[Karlin]

Time to end this Harper government

Getting back to Harper's reign as PM of Canada, it is time to end this charade before he does any more damage. I do not know who is saying "we don't want an election now", anymore.... it was true last year, but I think we are ready now.

And it would have been easy to trigger an election before the summer rest period began. I think the NDP missed the boat there....maybe could not get help from the Liberals or Bloc, I dunno. The recent budget would have served to defeat the Harper minority rule, but the opposition seemed to forget to vote it down.

Oh well, lets make sure it happens in the fall session then eh?

 

[BitWhys]

...I do not know who is saying "we don't want an election now", anymore...

Duceppe. so you may as well hunker down and learn to find the humour in it.