youtube link: Non-Violent Protest against Israel Apartheid Wall
- Thread starter earth_as_one
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Ok where is the video of the human bombs that Hamas sends into Israel to kill the civilians there? It's always about those evil Israelis.
It isn't about those "evil Israelis". This is about human dignity, freedom and justice. Things most of us take for granted, but the people displaced by Israel's creation don't have.
The non-violent protestors included Israelis and Americans. How can this be about evil Israelis???
You use the words Systematically Cleansed Earth, but you have no idea what they mean.
You know how I know that the Palestinians aren't being systematically cleansed or anything near it? Because Palestinians are never treated like this
http://www.un.int/drcongo/war/massacre_rwanda.jpg
The worst photos you can show could be a G8 rally in our own country. Palestine is loud and Whiney, but far from the worst off. All they need to do is stop bombing. Whatever they feel as they throw a temper tantrum is there right is irrelevant. Live by the sword, die by the sword. Thats life.
You know how I know that the Palestinians aren't being systematically cleansed or anything near it? Because Palestinians are never treated like this
http://www.un.int/drcongo/war/massacre_rwanda.jpg
The worst photos you can show could be a G8 rally in our own country. Palestine is loud and Whiney, but far from the worst off. All they need to do is stop bombing. Whatever they feel as they throw a temper tantrum is there right is irrelevant. Live by the sword, die by the sword. Thats life.
Ethnic cleansing in Rwanda killed more people in a shorter time than the ethnic cleansing in Palestine, but both are examples of ethnic cleansing. The Rwandan ordeal is over now, but the ethnic cleansing in Palestine which has been going on for 60 years, continues today.
It is wrong for good people to do nothing in either case.
As I have quoted above, even Israeli historians use the term "ethnic cleansing" to describe what Israel has done to Palestinians. There is no doubt that this is the correct term to describe the ongoing forcible removal of people from their homes to make way for Jewish only colonies.
It is not anti-Jewish or anti-Israeli to correctly label what Israel does to Palestinians as ethnic cleansing.
Here is yet another example of Israeli sources which describes Israel's cleansing of Palestine of Palestinians:
Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions (ICAHD)
More about the above source:
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, its probably a duck. The correct term to describe the forcible removal and displacement of millions of Palestinians is "ethnic cleansing".
Look it up in wikipedia under 20th Century examples of ethnic cleansing:
It is wrong for good people to do nothing in either case.
As I have quoted above, even Israeli historians use the term "ethnic cleansing" to describe what Israel has done to Palestinians. There is no doubt that this is the correct term to describe the ongoing forcible removal of people from their homes to make way for Jewish only colonies.
It is not anti-Jewish or anti-Israeli to correctly label what Israel does to Palestinians as ethnic cleansing.
Here is yet another example of Israeli sources which describes Israel's cleansing of Palestine of Palestinians:
Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions (ICAHD)
Ethnic Cleansing and Israel’s Racist Discourse
Ramzy Baroud
Sunday, December 03, 2006
"The term ethnic cleansing refers to various policies of forcibly removing people of another ethnic group. At one end of the spectrum, it is virtually indistinguishable from forced emigration and population transfer, while at the other it merges with deportation and genocide."
According to this definition, and others including those emerging in the 1990s, following the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans, Palestinians have been and remain victims of a determined and unwavering ethnic cleansing policy that began in 1947-48 and continues until today....
http://www.icahd.org/eng/articles.asp?menu=6&submenu=2&article=311
More about the above source:
ICAHD is a non-violent, direct-action group originally established to oppose and resist Israeli demolition of Palestinian houses in the Occupied Territories. As our activists gained direct knowledge of the brutalities of the Occupation, we expanded our resistance activities to other areas - land expropriation, settlement expansion, by-pass road construction, policies of "closure" and "separation," the wholesale uprooting of fruit and olive trees and more. The fierce repression of Palestinian efforts to "shake off" the Occupation following the latest Intifada has only added urgency to our efforts.
As a direct-action group, ICAHD is comprised of members of many Israeli peace and human rights organizations. All of our work in the Occupied Territories is closely coordinated with local Palestinian organizations.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, its probably a duck. The correct term to describe the forcible removal and displacement of millions of Palestinians is "ethnic cleansing".
Look it up in wikipedia under 20th Century examples of ethnic cleansing:
Even Israeli historianas describe what Israel has done to Palestinians as ethnic cleansing:
Power and History in the Middle East: A Conversation with Ilan Pappe
Q: What is your background and how do you see your own development as a historian?
Pappe: I was born in 1954 to a German Jewish family in Haifa where I lived in blissful ignorance about the world beyond the comfortable and safe mount Carmel until I reached the age of 18. At that age I began my military service which introduced me to other groups and to the host of social problems facing Israeli society. But it was only in the 1970s, at Hebrew University, that I was exposed to the plight of the Palestinians in Israel as an undergraduate in the department of Middle Eastern History. It was then and there that I found my love for history and developed my belief that the present cannot be understood and the future changed without first trying to decipher its historical dimensions.
It was clear that this could not be done freely inside Israel-especially if its own history was to be my subject matter. This is how I found myself at Oxford in 1984 as a D. Phil student under the supervision of two great supervisors, the late Albert Hourani and Roger Owen. The thesis was on the 1948 war in Palestine, a subject that has engaged me ever since my career as a professional historian began. This is still a subject that haunts me and I regard the events of that year as the key to understanding the present conflict in Palestine as well as the gate through which peace has to pass on the way to a comprehensive and lasting settlement in Palestine and Israel. Intimate and strong friendships with Palestinians and the newly declassified material in the archives produced my new look at the 1948 war. I challenged many of the foundational Israeli myths associated with the war and I described what happened in Palestine in that year essentially as a Jewish ethnic cleansing operation against the indigenous population. This conviction informed not only my work as a historian but also affected significantly my political views and activity...
...The Geneva initiative is, like so many other peace plans in the past, an Israeli dictate that seeks, and quite often finds, Palestinian partners. This present peace plan, like the previous one, has three assumptions that have to be deconstructed. The first is that the ethnic cleansing of Palestine in 1948 is irrelevant to the making of peace. The second is that peace excludes any solution for the refugee question based on the right of return and Israeli accountability for the catastrophe of 1948. The third, is that the Palestinians are not entitled to a state, but a dependency over roughly 15 percent of historical Palestine and for that they should declare the end of the conflict....
...the ethnic cleansing in 1948 will never allow Israel to reconcile with the Palestinians and the rest of the Middle East, nor to live in peace with its own Palestinian minority unless Israel boldly faces the past. The ethnic cleansing included the destruction of more than 400 villages, 11 towns and the expulsion of 750,000 Palestinians.
The Israeli state, as a political entity, has to acknowledge the ethnic cleansing. Until today it had failed to do so and it should be made accountable for its deeds and offer compensation for the people it wronged. This should be done on the basis of UN Resolution 194 that allowed the refugees to choose between compensation and return...
http://www.logosjournal.com/pappe.htm
You are mistaken.
Rwanda was an example of genocide and ethnic cleansing. Israel/Palestine is an example of ethnic cleansing.
Israel has forcibly removed hundreds of thousands of non-Jews from Palestine to make way for millions of Jews. Because the people removed were all non-Jews, were removed because they were non-Jews and the people Israel allows to immigrate to Israel are only Jews, this is ethnic cleansing. The longterm goal is to create a pure Jewish state.
No Palestine isn't Rwanda, but yes it is a clear case of ethnic cleansing and unlike Rwanda, Israel's ethnic cleansing continues today.
Israel's ethnic cleansing process is about 80% complete. As soon as Israel has finished building walled in concentration camps complete with guard towers for non-Jews in the occupied territories, they will turn their attention to the non-Jews who hold Israeli citizenship. The Israeli government will claim that it isn't ethnic cleansing but a transfer of domestic terrorists. Most people will believe those lies too.
In the end, after Israel's ethnic cleansing is complete, most of the original non-Jewish Palestinians and their descendants will live out their lives as prisoners in their own land, without dignity, freedom or justice. In fact we are already at the point where that describes the situation of the majority of non-Jewish Palestinians and their descendants.
This argument in a nutshell is about whether these people should have dignity, freedom and justice or whether they should rot in the poverty and squalor of refugee/concentration camps. I can't see how people who have lost their dignity and freedom and suffer oppression will ever stop fighting for these things. That's human nature.
Peace can only be achieved by recognizing these things and dealing with it. Denying the facts leads to more oppression, injustice and war.
Rwanda was an example of genocide and ethnic cleansing. Israel/Palestine is an example of ethnic cleansing.
Israel has forcibly removed hundreds of thousands of non-Jews from Palestine to make way for millions of Jews. Because the people removed were all non-Jews, were removed because they were non-Jews and the people Israel allows to immigrate to Israel are only Jews, this is ethnic cleansing. The longterm goal is to create a pure Jewish state.
No Palestine isn't Rwanda, but yes it is a clear case of ethnic cleansing and unlike Rwanda, Israel's ethnic cleansing continues today.
Israel's ethnic cleansing process is about 80% complete. As soon as Israel has finished building walled in concentration camps complete with guard towers for non-Jews in the occupied territories, they will turn their attention to the non-Jews who hold Israeli citizenship. The Israeli government will claim that it isn't ethnic cleansing but a transfer of domestic terrorists. Most people will believe those lies too.
In the end, after Israel's ethnic cleansing is complete, most of the original non-Jewish Palestinians and their descendants will live out their lives as prisoners in their own land, without dignity, freedom or justice. In fact we are already at the point where that describes the situation of the majority of non-Jewish Palestinians and their descendants.
This argument in a nutshell is about whether these people should have dignity, freedom and justice or whether they should rot in the poverty and squalor of refugee/concentration camps. I can't see how people who have lost their dignity and freedom and suffer oppression will ever stop fighting for these things. That's human nature.
Peace can only be achieved by recognizing these things and dealing with it. Denying the facts leads to more oppression, injustice and war.
When you say these things, I keep getting this nagging feeling in the back of my mind.
You are actually a Pro-Israeli poster, trying to post such outrageous statements that people automatically stop even trying to care about the Palestinian plight.
Comparing martial law to Concentration camps? I mean come on.
I know its tough, but Israel and Palestine, on their bad days, are less of an embarassment to humanity that most of the world on its GOOD days.
You wanna talk about Ethnic cleansing? Look to Africa, Look to indochina. If the Palestinians are going through Ethnic cleansing the Jews are god damned incompetant at it.
I don't see the Palestinians suffering ANYTHING like those in Sierra Leonne, Like the Hmong, Like SOOO many people in this world.
Thus I am left to conclude either you have no Idea about the world, or you are just trying to make the Palestinian side of this debate seem so outrageous people will never even consider it in their lives.
You are actually a Pro-Israeli poster, trying to post such outrageous statements that people automatically stop even trying to care about the Palestinian plight.
Comparing martial law to Concentration camps? I mean come on.
I know its tough, but Israel and Palestine, on their bad days, are less of an embarassment to humanity that most of the world on its GOOD days.
You wanna talk about Ethnic cleansing? Look to Africa, Look to indochina. If the Palestinians are going through Ethnic cleansing the Jews are god damned incompetant at it.
I don't see the Palestinians suffering ANYTHING like those in Sierra Leonne, Like the Hmong, Like SOOO many people in this world.
Thus I am left to conclude either you have no Idea about the world, or you are just trying to make the Palestinian side of this debate seem so outrageous people will never even consider it in their lives.
We are talking about ethnic cleansing not martial law. Martial law does not include bulldozing homes because the occupants are the wrong religion to build homes for people who belong to the right religion. That behavior is clearly ethnic cleansing not martial law.
You are also confusing a concentration camp with a death camp. A concentration is where the undesirable people are relocated because of who they are not what they've done. Most Palestinians are innocent and live in walled in compounds because they used to live where Israel is.
My problem with this conflict is that Israel gets away with committing atrocities against these people and it either doesn't make the news, or its spun in such a way that people think Israel's ethnic cleansing is an effect rather than a cause.
With those other conflicts you mentioned most people are in agreement that taking people's homes and forcing them into concetration camps is wrong. Most people agree that in those conflicts, ethnic cleansing is wrong and the people responsible should be held accountable.
But the Israel/Palestinian conflict is the only exception I can think of where the victims of ethnic cleansing are blamed and the people responsible are not held accountable. Only Israel seems able to get away with its ethnic cleansing year after year.
I suspect part of the reason why Israel can get away with committing crimes against humanity is our collective guilt over what happened to Jews during WW II. Canada turned away boatloads of Jewish refugees back then and many Jews were forced back to Europe to face the horrors of Nazi Germany. Damn right we should feel guilty. But Palestinians should not be forced to pay the price for what we westerners and Europeans did to Jews. Palestinians are innocent of these crimes, yet they have been ethnically cleansed off their land to compensate Jewish refugees our crimes and inaction.
Another part of the problem is that powerful pro-Israel people control what we know about this conflict. As a result, most people only know the Israeli viewpoint. I post the Palestinian viewpoint because few people know it. Most of what we know about Palestinians and this conflict is highly filtered and spun in such a way that Israel's crimes seem justified. But as soon as people become aware, they realize how they have been blind.
It should be obvious that only a desperate person with nothing to loose would volunteer to become a human bomb. Yet that's not how most of us see it. Most of us believe Palestinians are subhumans with a death wish, because that how our media portrays them. But watch the Dispatches documentary completely. You will know what its like to live on the other side of the wall and you will see this conflict far more clearly than before. It will open your eyes.
The link again
If you watch this video Z you will understand why I support giving these people dignity, freedom and justice.
Ethnic cleansing is a crime against humanity, no matter how slowly it proceeds. Over 60 years it has resulted in over four million displaced people. Until the world sees Israel's ethnic cleansing as the root cause of the Israel/Palestine conflict, Israel will continue cleansing Palestine of Palestinians and we will never find a peaceful resolution.
You are also confusing a concentration camp with a death camp. A concentration is where the undesirable people are relocated because of who they are not what they've done. Most Palestinians are innocent and live in walled in compounds because they used to live where Israel is.
My problem with this conflict is that Israel gets away with committing atrocities against these people and it either doesn't make the news, or its spun in such a way that people think Israel's ethnic cleansing is an effect rather than a cause.
With those other conflicts you mentioned most people are in agreement that taking people's homes and forcing them into concetration camps is wrong. Most people agree that in those conflicts, ethnic cleansing is wrong and the people responsible should be held accountable.
But the Israel/Palestinian conflict is the only exception I can think of where the victims of ethnic cleansing are blamed and the people responsible are not held accountable. Only Israel seems able to get away with its ethnic cleansing year after year.
I suspect part of the reason why Israel can get away with committing crimes against humanity is our collective guilt over what happened to Jews during WW II. Canada turned away boatloads of Jewish refugees back then and many Jews were forced back to Europe to face the horrors of Nazi Germany. Damn right we should feel guilty. But Palestinians should not be forced to pay the price for what we westerners and Europeans did to Jews. Palestinians are innocent of these crimes, yet they have been ethnically cleansed off their land to compensate Jewish refugees our crimes and inaction.
Another part of the problem is that powerful pro-Israel people control what we know about this conflict. As a result, most people only know the Israeli viewpoint. I post the Palestinian viewpoint because few people know it. Most of what we know about Palestinians and this conflict is highly filtered and spun in such a way that Israel's crimes seem justified. But as soon as people become aware, they realize how they have been blind.
It should be obvious that only a desperate person with nothing to loose would volunteer to become a human bomb. Yet that's not how most of us see it. Most of us believe Palestinians are subhumans with a death wish, because that how our media portrays them. But watch the Dispatches documentary completely. You will know what its like to live on the other side of the wall and you will see this conflict far more clearly than before. It will open your eyes.
The link again
If you watch this video Z you will understand why I support giving these people dignity, freedom and justice.
Ethnic cleansing is a crime against humanity, no matter how slowly it proceeds. Over 60 years it has resulted in over four million displaced people. Until the world sees Israel's ethnic cleansing as the root cause of the Israel/Palestine conflict, Israel will continue cleansing Palestine of Palestinians and we will never find a peaceful resolution.
Actually, that is martial law. Organized religion, being an organization, is a legitimate target. If the pope (assuming he still held the sway) called for all catholics to murder all non-catholics on sight, then regardless of the banner of religion, those who follow the organization would be legitimate targets.
If claiming the title "religion" made you untouchable, then theocracies would rule the world. If you belong to an enemy organization, even a theocratic one, which is hostile, you are a legitimate target for martial law.
Seeing as you still haven't shown my one ditch full of dead Palestinians being bulldozed over by Israelis, I think you need to take another long hard look at the world.
Im still starting to think you are trying to make anyone saying anything Pro-Palestinian look completely ridiculous.
Genocide and ethnic cleansing are different in the way theft and murder are different. Just because theft isn't murder, doesn't mean we should ignore theft.
We are talking about four and a half million displaced people with no natioality, citizen rights, movement and many other fundamental human rights.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you... Would you want the same level of freedom and justice as these people.
You either understand that or you don't I suppose. Here is another perspective
We are talking about four and a half million displaced people with no natioality, citizen rights, movement and many other fundamental human rights.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you... Would you want the same level of freedom and justice as these people.
You either understand that or you don't I suppose. Here is another perspective
They attempt to commit murder, the response is theft. By your own logic it seems Palestine is getting off light. It should really change its behaviour.
Violence only begets more violence. Seeing as its on the losing end, it should probably change strategies. But hey, their choice to make. Like everyone else, they are responsible for their choices.
Violence only begets more violence. Seeing as its on the losing end, it should probably change strategies. But hey, their choice to make. Like everyone else, they are responsible for their choices.
I watched a documentary which showed that a common practice is to play "dead" or "injured" when cameras are present. You run around, throw rocks and fall down holding a knee. Then people will come up and carry you away. It makes great footage until they show the same guy throwing rocks 5 minutes later!
They even showed one "injured" Palestinian getting put down on a side street and laughing as he gets off the stretcher. I guess they forgot to censor that part. ;-)
They even showed one "injured" Palestinian getting put down on a side street and laughing as he gets off the stretcher. I guess they forgot to censor that part. ;-)
Eagle, take a look at this...
http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2006/08/corruption-of-media.html
This is the art of media manipulation.
I'll get back to ya with a couple pics and story about some of these photogs and how someone was caught in the act. In one pic, he's pulling bodies from the rubble, then a few pics later he's dead in the rubble.
It is to laugh, if it wasn't so sad and the fuel of stupidity.
http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2006/08/corruption-of-media.html
This is the art of media manipulation.
I'll get back to ya with a couple pics and story about some of these photogs and how someone was caught in the act. In one pic, he's pulling bodies from the rubble, then a few pics later he's dead in the rubble.
It is to laugh, if it wasn't so sad and the fuel of stupidity.
That's not accurate either. 800,000 Palestinians were forcible removed from their homes to make way for Israel. Over time Israel has expanded continuously displacing more people into a smaller and more fragmented areas. Now 4.5 million people live in a series walled in prison camps.
Your generalizations about these people are about as accurate as your belief that genocide and ethnic cleansing are the same thing.
Even though our news portrays these people as criminals, most are just peaceful people. The first post in this string was a peaceful non-violent protest.
Here is yet another example of non-violent protest: