I want to experience reality .
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El Barto :
China , I've done this in the past, to become aware of all the judgeing one does in a day. Just that is hard to control.
why control anything ? If there is understanding ,then there is no reason to control .
China , I've done this in the past, to become aware of all the judgeing one does in a day. Just that is hard to control.
why control anything ? If there is understanding ,then there is no reason to control .
You want to experience reality? Turn off the effing computer and step outside. Enough said!
Please continue; is the reality different?
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Please continue; is the reality different?
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Today, 11:07 AM
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El Barto :
China , I've done this in the past, to become aware of all the judgeing one does in a day. Just that is hard to control.
why control anything ? If there is understanding ,then there is no reason to control .
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ElBarto
Because you "don't get it".... why does that give you the right to slam China's thoughts and his messages of thought for us to think on.
Some people here enjoy the conundrums he delivers whether they are important in your world or not or whether you even comprehend the messages..... it just isn't all about you.... no need to insult.
Because you "don't get it".... why does that give you the right to slam China's thoughts and his messages of thought for us to think on.
Some people here enjoy the conundrums he delivers whether they are important in your world or not or whether you even comprehend the messages..... it just isn't all about you.... no need to insult.
That's a start but if you leave your expectation of the external reality on the desk beside the computer and then go out, whaere will you be?:wave:
ruff ruff ruff ruff barkruff ruffsnarlbarkruffruff I don't see any slam but your, maybe I'm too stupid to see. hahaharuff ruff hahaha:wave:
It’s up to each of us to connect the dots of meaning into reality as we see fit, or not. Nobody else can say what is relevant or meaningful. There are no teachers except for those that are able to help us be what we are or might become. Nobody else can be responsible for our life. There is material however. Two from Rainer Maria Rilke
The Panther
His vision, from the constantly passing bars,
has grown so weary that it cannot hold
anything else. It seems to him there are
a thousand bars; and behind the bars, no world.
As he paces in cramped circles, over and over,
the movement of his powerful soft strides
is like a ritual dance around a center
in which a mighty will stands paralyzed.
Only at times, the curtain of the pupils
lifts, quietly--. An image enters in,
rushes down through the tensed, arrested muscles,
plunges into the heart and is gone.
A Walk
My eyes already touch the sunny hill.
going far ahead of the road I have begun.
So we are grasped by what we cannot grasp;
it has inner light, even from a distance-
and charges us, even if we do not reach it,
into something else, which, hardly sensing it,
we already are; a gesture waves us on
answering our own wave...
but what we feel is the wind in our faces.
We walk, we dance, we feel, we live. Sometimes we think, but if we think in language we may be missing the point. Words are categories into which we put our experience. Individual words can hold many things, but words rarely if ever are individual and particular. Words that become too big may come to hold nothing at all. Such words hold the hyper-truths of clichés. So utterly true they have destroyed their own meanings. Words are abstractions, and abstractions do not exist outside the mind. Abstractions can be no better than close approximations, and may come to approximate nothing at all. If reality is outside then thought in words doesn’t go there.
Life is a walk through time might be a cliché. Perhaps it is, and perhaps our life journeys are thoughts that follow paths of words. If so then we follow abstractions, and our journeys may follow principles that become so broad that the traveler leaves no trace of their passing. Such travelers can follow nobody, and nobody can follow them. They cannot find their ways back to where they were. They may have arrived at the North Pole where all directions are south. It makes no difference which turn is taken. Questions like what direction is it to Shangra La are meaningless. Every direction is the same. There is no guidance. Such are the risks of thought in words. Principles that become so broad as to be meaningless. We have globalization, freedon and democracy and the war against terrorism to achieve them. We have fashon as principles and we kill for fashion. The next fashion will be much the same. We consume our fashion through words.
However, words, perhaps as those from Rilke, may illicit feeling rather than meaning, and feeling might get us there to the world beyond the Rilke’s bars. Turning off words as thought may get us closer. Turning on words as feeling may get us closer. Meaning often isn’t especially meaningful.
When I solo my canoe down rapides, I do not think. If I took the time to think, to shred the reality of rapides with the knives of abstraction, then rapides might kill me. I hear the roar and see the river’s churning surface. White is bad and dark is good. Big rocks are friends, there are eddies behind. You can’t go where you have to, the current takes you there if you know how. You can’t travel rapides without knowing the river bed, but the bed can only be known from seeing river’s surface. You watch and listen, the paddle knows where to go and what to do. That is why you practiced. I get to the bottom. I had an experience. No thought. Words get in the way. The experience becomes part of me. Reality perhaps.
I can play this game and maybe have a time. I know it as play though. Play is OK.
Rilke translators identified on poemhunter.com
The Panther
His vision, from the constantly passing bars,
has grown so weary that it cannot hold
anything else. It seems to him there are
a thousand bars; and behind the bars, no world.
As he paces in cramped circles, over and over,
the movement of his powerful soft strides
is like a ritual dance around a center
in which a mighty will stands paralyzed.
Only at times, the curtain of the pupils
lifts, quietly--. An image enters in,
rushes down through the tensed, arrested muscles,
plunges into the heart and is gone.
A Walk
My eyes already touch the sunny hill.
going far ahead of the road I have begun.
So we are grasped by what we cannot grasp;
it has inner light, even from a distance-
and charges us, even if we do not reach it,
into something else, which, hardly sensing it,
we already are; a gesture waves us on
answering our own wave...
but what we feel is the wind in our faces.
We walk, we dance, we feel, we live. Sometimes we think, but if we think in language we may be missing the point. Words are categories into which we put our experience. Individual words can hold many things, but words rarely if ever are individual and particular. Words that become too big may come to hold nothing at all. Such words hold the hyper-truths of clichés. So utterly true they have destroyed their own meanings. Words are abstractions, and abstractions do not exist outside the mind. Abstractions can be no better than close approximations, and may come to approximate nothing at all. If reality is outside then thought in words doesn’t go there.
Life is a walk through time might be a cliché. Perhaps it is, and perhaps our life journeys are thoughts that follow paths of words. If so then we follow abstractions, and our journeys may follow principles that become so broad that the traveler leaves no trace of their passing. Such travelers can follow nobody, and nobody can follow them. They cannot find their ways back to where they were. They may have arrived at the North Pole where all directions are south. It makes no difference which turn is taken. Questions like what direction is it to Shangra La are meaningless. Every direction is the same. There is no guidance. Such are the risks of thought in words. Principles that become so broad as to be meaningless. We have globalization, freedon and democracy and the war against terrorism to achieve them. We have fashon as principles and we kill for fashion. The next fashion will be much the same. We consume our fashion through words.
However, words, perhaps as those from Rilke, may illicit feeling rather than meaning, and feeling might get us there to the world beyond the Rilke’s bars. Turning off words as thought may get us closer. Turning on words as feeling may get us closer. Meaning often isn’t especially meaningful.
When I solo my canoe down rapides, I do not think. If I took the time to think, to shred the reality of rapides with the knives of abstraction, then rapides might kill me. I hear the roar and see the river’s churning surface. White is bad and dark is good. Big rocks are friends, there are eddies behind. You can’t go where you have to, the current takes you there if you know how. You can’t travel rapides without knowing the river bed, but the bed can only be known from seeing river’s surface. You watch and listen, the paddle knows where to go and what to do. That is why you practiced. I get to the bottom. I had an experience. No thought. Words get in the way. The experience becomes part of me. Reality perhaps.
I can play this game and maybe have a time. I know it as play though. Play is OK.
Rilke translators identified on poemhunter.com
Last edited:
Well.............as mind boggling as it is, where is the heart in all of it?
How the mind works is like a computer, it is programmed daily by what input it gathers.
But the heart, now there is one who true desires can be found!
Jer 17:9 The heart is perverse above all things, and unsearchable, who can know it?
The mind is forever computing, but the heart, if it can be changed it can do some good.
An in the heart is where the measure of a man is!
My thoughts: only.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
How the mind works is like a computer, it is programmed daily by what input it gathers.
But the heart, now there is one who true desires can be found!
Jer 17:9 The heart is perverse above all things, and unsearchable, who can know it?
The mind is forever computing, but the heart, if it can be changed it can do some good.
An in the heart is where the measure of a man is!
My thoughts: only.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
Not at all. It ignores most inputs, filters and edits and often invents what it chooses to remember, and is much less accurate and complete when it comes to recall, because unlike a computer, the mind has an agenda created by its hopes and fears and wishes and desires and beliefs and so on.
The conscience mind does that, the rest of the mind, does something else.I think of the mind as a sort of mirror, it reflects all incounters,it has no choice but awareness, it cannot normally reflect on the total input of even a second so it has learned to filter and edit and invent, that learning is a product of the total mind and total accumulation which is ancient. The mind is no more like a computer than a bucket is to the Louvre.Dexter you have become a fine magician and astrologer. And I mean that as a sincere stringless compliment .:laughing7::laughing7::wave:
From most people, I'd probably take offense at that, but you're too entertaining to be offensive. I wish I knew what you meant though. ;-)
I wish you could too, I have need of a new astrologer, Merlin grows old.:laughing7:
I wish you knew as well, I have need of a new astrologer, Merlin grows old. haha
I mean if you were hurled back in time, gently, you would be explaining the universe to an incredulous gaping mob of dullards, like me, and try as you might you could never escape the label of magician or astrolager or alchemists, it's not very much different today. It gives me mirth no end to read your posts trying to separate reason and magic when there is no separation. hahahahah If you hadn't been thoroughly enchanted and transfixed by the magic of science, what would you be. You can pull rabits out of hats, and do, and then plead ignorance hahaha:laughing7::wave:
Verry interesting! Doesn't anyone feel sorry for those who feel the need for the state of 'reality'? Not being disabled myself, I have no need of this crutch:|
Perhaps to you. To me, tats are simply artwork.
Illusion is not reality, illusion is only part of reality.
It's no wonder that someone who bases their life on believing in illusion cannot tell the difference between illusion and reality. Comical.
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]lol I think the function of MY thinking is to analyse, formulate plans, process information, run my body, etc. Communications is only a part of it.
Perhaps your thoughts are as you say. Mine are constantly sucking up bits of reality and processing them even if I'm not cognizant of this process. The brain is ALWAYS thinking. It multitasks. It thinks even if you aren't aware of it thinking.
Nuts. I can be content in the knowledge that some things are unknown to me. I find a certain security in that knowledge and that is certainly not denying it, that's simply accepting it.
Again, speak for yourself. Read my last comment.
When the thinking stops, you are dead or comatose. When you become unaware of your thinking, your mind is silent and it sure can be achieved through practise.
Make up your mind. (heh heh. Been wanting to say that for quite some time now). You say at the front that the mind cannot experience anything new. Now you say that it can if it has become silent. Again, one is always thinking. If one stops thinking, one is dead or comatose. The desire to maintain this freedom gives continuity to the memory of the becomer, which is a hindrance to reality. Reality has no continuity; it is from moment to moment, always new, always fresh. What has continuity can never be created.[/quote]Thoughts have continuity and they are created; created by experiences, created by comparisons between experiences, etc.
Again, speak for yourself. History is a part of reality. Get over it.[/FONT]
Geeeez. Reality can't be this. But it can be this if it's under such-and-scch condition. Thinking can't experience the new. But thoughts can experience the new if one senses things. Mind can't be silent. But the mind can be silent when thinking stops. Yada yada yada
My suggestion, China, is you should quit thinking about thinking. You are chasing your tail.
You want to experience reality? Turn off the effing computer and step outside. Enough said!
Please continue; is the reality different?
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Clever Clogs
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El Barto :
China , I've done this in the past, to become aware of all the judgeing one does in a day. Just that is hard to control.
why control anything ? If there is understanding ,then there is no reason to control .
china
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