How is my opinion any more biased than yours? I have even told you that I am open to listening and learning from you...and HAVE listened and learned from you.
Love Of Our Neighbour
- Thread starter sanctus
- Start date
SNFU
I can't answer for Sanctus - but could it be you came out with a baseball bat going after him the way you did as if he had no right to post what he wanted to?
I don't shock easily but your first post to him which has been partially edited was off the wall - and why should Sanctus pay you any attention or wish to talk with you from that point on?
Is it mandatory he respond because he is a priest? He is also a human - treat him so.
I can't answer for Sanctus - but could it be you came out with a baseball bat going after him the way you did as if he had no right to post what he wanted to?
I don't shock easily but your first post to him which has been partially edited was off the wall - and why should Sanctus pay you any attention or wish to talk with you from that point on?
Is it mandatory he respond because he is a priest? He is also a human - treat him so.
I'm not saying he has to do anything...he can do what he wants. And the first post that you read was hardly my first interchange with him. By that point, I had read plenty where when he posted, I was quite blunt in my statements.
I know he is also human...but so are my gay friends, so are the people that I know and have encountered who he refers to as sinners, and when approached about it says that is god's way. Well, to me, that deserves some criticism...and that is what I have put forward. What I have got in response is an email campaign telling people not to respond to me, repeatedly telling me that I am posting in the wrong place at the wrong time, etc. Again...I say....these are public forums for public debate, and that is what I am doing. Again, I will say that, ya, I have been agressive at times, and I have maybe gone overboard, and I learn from those encounters. I don't know if I necessarily apologize, because what I said came from genuine emotion....from my heart. I may have been too aggressive in how I showed those feelings...but I still stand by those feelings.
Again though, it is up to Sanctus, and anyone else whether or not they want to respond to me...that doesn't mean that I have to stop posting though....it doesn't mean that I won't have things to say...and it doesn't mean that I should stop saying them...and I won't. How people want to approach me is up to them.
Yes, forgiveness is "all about you", but people like "me", a non believer, cannot leave the rest of
it to a god. We have to save a little to observe and see what happens as a result of the other's
"sins", and also what kind of action our legal system has to the "sinner". The ability to forgive is
very valuable but we all have a responsibility to help keep our earth free of such "sinners", either
with rehabilitation or punishment or "death", as I believe should happen in the recent "Jessica" case.
I'm sure our Policemen/detectives who see the results of horrible actions from day to day, must have
a very difficult time dealing with thier own feelings in regard to what they observe, and when
bombarded each and every day with such events, I wonder how many of them can "actually" forgive.
I also had some complaints re: the approach of the catholic religion towards gay people. I had some
discussion with Sanctus on this matter. He thoroughly explained the position of the catholic church,
and how they deal with "gay" parishioners.
I still do not agree with the position the catholic church takes on this matter, but it has nothing to
do with Sanctus. He didn't write the bible, he is a priest, he has a position to take on this matter
and he has "no" other choices, so I don't know what else you would ask of him.
A gay person can be a gay catholic and attend church, but if he/she wishes to live a "gay" lifestyle, that
is a sin and not tolerated by the catholic church. They will never change that, and it "still" has nothing
to do with Sanctus as a person or priest.
If you really want to "fight" with someone on this matter, it will have to be someone other than a
priest, who can "fight" back in the way you need, there must be many.
discussion with Sanctus on this matter. He thoroughly explained the position of the catholic church,
and how they deal with "gay" parishioners.
I still do not agree with the position the catholic church takes on this matter, but it has nothing to
do with Sanctus. He didn't write the bible, he is a priest, he has a position to take on this matter
and he has "no" other choices, so I don't know what else you would ask of him.
A gay person can be a gay catholic and attend church, but if he/she wishes to live a "gay" lifestyle, that
is a sin and not tolerated by the catholic church. They will never change that, and it "still" has nothing
to do with Sanctus as a person or priest.
If you really want to "fight" with someone on this matter, it will have to be someone other than a
priest, who can "fight" back in the way you need, there must be many.
I disagree with the idea that there is no choice in the matter, and that is what I am trying to get at. There are catholic based groups who are working to try and change things within the church, to reduce the prejudice, discrimination, etc towards gays. When I approached Sanctus about the idea of questioning...of saying "Um...hey, is what we are doing to gays really right", he stated that, no, you don't question these things. You just do it because god tells you. Well, that's wonderful and all...but where does that leave my gay friends??? Does that mean that forever they are going to be dogged by prejudice and hatred and homophobia partially condoned by, and even pushed by the Catholic church? Sanctus has control over his beliefs. We all do. We all have the capacity to question. Whether we do or not is up to us. By saying he won't question doesn't mean that what he is saying or projecting is good and that he is off the hook because that's the way god wants it. He still has to live here on earth with us. I think, as well, is that the position of the church is based on fallacy...that homosexuality is a CHOICE...and homosexuals themselves have been saying for YEARS that it is not a choice for them!!! But, when I asked Sanctus...he stated that Jesus tells him different. Well...what the heck? So, I see this sort of behaviour as being disructive, disrespectful and mean...but it's justified in our society because it is linked to the church...and I don't buy that. Gay bashing is gay bashing.
Now...picking a fight. Am I picking a fight? Well, you may percieve that I am...and I can probably see why. BUT...BUT...as I have stated before...this IS a public forum. I am sharing my ideas just as he is sharing his. He often DOES presented good ideas. I have stated before that he IS very intelligent and very interesting. I am not trying to get him not to post. I'm glad he posts...him more than ANYONE in here inspires me to think and post and discuss and brings out feelings in me. With his posts, he has an agenda...he is presenting a Catholic viewpoint....with my posts, I am presenting a non Catholic viewpoint with concerns over what the Catholic church is doing in our society at times. And this is why I keeps saying, it seems that the MAJOR faux pas I am making is questioning the church and god and jesus....and...the values of the church. Well...guess what...I AM...and I think for good reason. And that's what public forums are about. If everyone is so upset about me trying to use public forums for coneyeing some of my ideas, and trying to engage in debate, and expressing feelings and such, then they aren't getting the point of a public forum and really should get out and have their own private forum where no one will confront you so you don't have to look at your ideas and beliefs and ever have them questioned! I don't care if Sanctus does not read my posts...others are....others who are reading Sanctus's posts as well. And, when they do, they can make their own decisions of how they feel...they may agree with Sanctus, they may agree with me, they may agree with both of us. I'm not about to stop posting. I'm not looking for a fight. I AM looking to express. I AM looking to discuss. I AM looking to debate. I AM looking to counter opinions that I don't agree with. I AM looking to question. I AM looking to participate in a PUBLIC FORUM...I REPEAT PUBLIC FORUM where ideas are exchanged...where, sure, the debate can get heated....but...what's so wrong with that? It's better than us all just going "Oh yes, Sanctus, oh wise one...we shall follow you and never question anything!". That's kinda...boring...and, rather...scary....
THAT was mean and uncalled for!
Not really. Here we have a man who hates the Church and its teachings, but the minute a post appears on the topic he rushes in like a demon with his hate-filled pro-homosexual agenda.
So in you mind The Love your neighbor only works if your neighbor loves you????? You dont know that man or his trials yet you have the same attitude as him (which you say is wrong)
I don't hate the church...I find myself offended by some of it's teachings, and get frustrated when people say "that's just the way it is!". I'm tired of sanctioned gay bashing that is passed off and defended as okay because it comes from the church. But, I don't HATE the church. In fact, I think religion has a lot of positives to offer people...but I feel strongly that the negatives need to be addressed. People say "The church hasn't changed for 2000 years...it won't change now.". It hasn't changed? Ummmm...so, the church is still under the impression that the earth is flat? The fact is, the church has changed, has developed, has altered overtime. There is call for change within the catholic church even...within many religions...to question things that need questioning, to reanalyze the words of the lord, to take a look at the interpretations of the bible. And I think that this is a good thing...it is GOOD to question...it is GOOD to revisit these ideas and concepts...to take a look at what people see as the word of god and reexamine it. As with all literature, it is open to interpretation...and even many within the catholic church interpret it differently. So, no, I don't hate the church...but, like I said, I do hate some of the things the church teaches, some of the things that the church does, and some of the negative and destructive results. I admire the church for the good it can bring to a community. I dislike the negatives it brings.
Good point, for to love our neighbour means we must love him in spite of how he appears to us.