Not another one! First Look is the only one who can read the Bible right, now this guy..oy veh!
Catholic Discussion
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Not another one! First Look is the only one who can read the Bible right, now this guy..oy veh!
I didn't say catholocism caused suicide...BUT...it can be a factor. If people are constantly cutting someone down for being who they are it affects them in pretty deep ways, and can lead to bad stuff. If someone wants to argue that "hey, not my problem", I argue...bull. If you are catholic and involved in this activity of cutting people down with no sufficient backing as to why...then...you are guilty, I charge. You are guilty of contributing to conditions that can lead to damaging results.
Now back to the bible. The bible is not the word of god. It is a document written by a collective group of people. I don't believe for a second it is the word of god but just a book...but for the sake of this argument, what I want to say is, even if it is the word of god, it has been filtered through humans and has gone through translations and has been altered over time. It is, in no way, the pure, straight up word of god. It is an altered document. So....how can it be trusted? How can anyone look at it as infalliable?
Now back to the bible. The bible is not the word of god. It is a document written by a collective group of people. I don't believe for a second it is the word of god but just a book...but for the sake of this argument, what I want to say is, even if it is the word of god, it has been filtered through humans and has gone through translations and has been altered over time. It is, in no way, the pure, straight up word of god. It is an altered document. So....how can it be trusted? How can anyone look at it as infalliable?
A Sarasota County (FL) Democratic Party leader
sent this out to our
list. He added the 6 points at the end.
Message passing around the Internet: Biblical
marriage
The Presidential Prayer Team is currently urging
us to:
"Pray for the President as he seeks wisdom on how
to legally codify the definition of marriage. Pray that it will be according to Biblical
principles. With many forces insisting on variant definitions of marriage,
pray that God's Word and His standards will be
honored by our government."
Any good religious person believes prayer should
be balanced by action.
So here, in support of the Prayer Team's
admirable goals, is a proposed
Constitutional Amendment codifying marriage
entirely on biblical principles:
BIBLICAL MARRIAGE
I. Marriage in the United States shall consist
of a union between one man
and one or more women. (Gen 29:17-28; II Sam
3:2-5.)
II. Marriage shall not impede a man's right to
take concubines in addition
to his wife or wives. (II Sam 5:13; I Kings 11:3;
II Chron 11:21)
III. A marriage shall be considered valid only
if the wife is a virgin. If
the wife is not a virgin, she shall be executed.
(Deut 22:13-21)
IV. Marriage between a believer and a
nonbeliever shall be forbidden. (Gen
24:3; Num 25:1-9; Ezra 9:12; Neh 10:30)
V. Since marriage is for life, neither this
Constitution nor the
constitution of any State, nor any state or
federal law, shall be construed to permit
divorce. (Deut 22:19; Mark 10:9)
VI. If a married man dies without children, his
brother shall marry the
widow. If he refuses to marry his brother's
widow or deliberately does not
give her children, he shall pay a fine of one shoe
and be otherwise punished
in a manner to be determined by law. (Gen.
38:6-10; Deut 25:5-10)
sent this out to our
list. He added the 6 points at the end.
Message passing around the Internet: Biblical
marriage
The Presidential Prayer Team is currently urging
us to:
"Pray for the President as he seeks wisdom on how
to legally codify the definition of marriage. Pray that it will be according to Biblical
principles. With many forces insisting on variant definitions of marriage,
pray that God's Word and His standards will be
honored by our government."
Any good religious person believes prayer should
be balanced by action.
So here, in support of the Prayer Team's
admirable goals, is a proposed
Constitutional Amendment codifying marriage
entirely on biblical principles:
BIBLICAL MARRIAGE
I. Marriage in the United States shall consist
of a union between one man
and one or more women. (Gen 29:17-28; II Sam
3:2-5.)
II. Marriage shall not impede a man's right to
take concubines in addition
to his wife or wives. (II Sam 5:13; I Kings 11:3;
II Chron 11:21)
III. A marriage shall be considered valid only
if the wife is a virgin. If
the wife is not a virgin, she shall be executed.
(Deut 22:13-21)
IV. Marriage between a believer and a
nonbeliever shall be forbidden. (Gen
24:3; Num 25:1-9; Ezra 9:12; Neh 10:30)
V. Since marriage is for life, neither this
Constitution nor the
constitution of any State, nor any state or
federal law, shall be construed to permit
divorce. (Deut 22:19; Mark 10:9)
VI. If a married man dies without children, his
brother shall marry the
widow. If he refuses to marry his brother's
widow or deliberately does not
give her children, he shall pay a fine of one shoe
and be otherwise punished
in a manner to be determined by law. (Gen.
38:6-10; Deut 25:5-10)
You said the church and its attitudes drove homosexuals to kill themselves. It is not a factor. Suicide is by the individual, alone. No one is to blame for your actions but yourself.
Humourous, but that is not the defintion of marriage given us by Jesus in the Bible which is what is the basis for the Sacrament of Matrimony.
I presented it because I did think it was humourous...but also points out the fact, quite nicely I would say how some parts of the bible are adhered to scrictly to the letter by some, while other parts are ignored. Why is that? And that's not just catholics...this is an issue throughout many religions and interpretations of the bible.
Has to do with the magisterium of the Church. Other Christians? Outside the Church you mean??? There aren't any, but to be fair you need to know I'm "old-school" Catholic. IMO, if you're not under the Pope, you're a heretic
Yaaaaaaaa.....ya...I don't go for that. I mean, hey, if it works for you, all the best...but...not for me...Has to do with the magisterium of the Church. Other Christians? Outside the Church you mean??? There aren't any, but to be fair you need to know I'm "old-school" Catholic. IMO, if you're not under the Pope, you're a heretic
Call me crazy, but I think one guys religion is just as good, or bad as the next guys. I don't think anyone can say with any certainity what the truth is...and if they claim to, they need help...
HOLY CRAP! Is it ironic or not that the last post I made was the 666th post in this thread!!!!
I'm ripe for converting folks! I'm scared!
I'm ripe for converting folks! I'm scared!
Yaaaaaaaa.....ya...I don't go for that. I mean, hey, if it works for you, all the best...but...not for me...
Call me crazy, but I think one guys religion is just as good, or bad as the next guys. I don't think anyone can say with any certainity what the truth is...and if they claim to, they need help...
I know the truth, Christ and the Holy Catholic Church
Anyway, what I don't understand is why you even bother on a Catholic discussion thread?
Well, like I've said before...I'm not here to change minds...that isn't going to happen. I am in here because this is a discussion forum...and this thread is very lively, passionate and interesting. There is a good discussion going on here. People keep asking why I am here, and I answer, why not? It isn't classified as a thread for catholics only. I think I have been raising good points, I have learnt a great deal, I have found the discussion stimulating, and it keeps drawing me back. And people have been engaging me in good conversation and for the most part it has been very respectful.I know the truth, Christ and the Holy Catholic Church
Anyway, what I don't understand is why you even bother on a Catholic discussion thread?
Religion as a whole IS a very interesting topic. I find it fascinating. I have enjoying discussing it in here. I don't agree with alot of the stuff...but that isn't the point. The point is the discussion...and I'm doing that...discussing...sharing my views, reading others views, engaging. I mean, the thread would be pretty boring if everyone just agreed all the time with everyone, right?
Not in the metal music world, man....it's evil, it's sinister...it's....AWESOME!Don't worry, 666 refers to the Emperor Nero, so unless you're him I wouldn't worry
I wonder what happens to many catholic believers who love god and their church, but are homosexual, what are their choices, other than suicide, or, just, hiding in the closet, and
just pretending they are "normal" in the eyes of the church. Tell me what their choices are.
they have to get "cured" in most people's eyes. Although I imagine the intelligent ones find a more tolerant church or keep their religion at home.
I guess I better chime in here with my bible, of course.
Homosexuality? What does the bible say:
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
God gives them up! What does that mean? Don’t expect any blessings from God, but do go your own way.
And expect recompense for that error.
Now, if your organization has rules against homosexuality, then by their own laws you must adhere to them.
Homosexuality is like any other sin, because sin is sin.
Simply put: You want Gods blessings, than become obedient to His desires, otherwise, suffer the consequences without God’s help.
The souls that are in those bodies are precious unto the Lord. No different than mine.
We should instruct them with compassion and love and perhaps, maybe perhaps they might repent. (Change their minds)
But there has to be a structured code as per the verses above that contrast the acceptance or rejection of homosexual behavior but not rejection of the soul.
All of us sins in one way or the other. So, we are not exempt to judge and condemn another sinner’s soul to hell. Regardless: of the sin.
We may address the behavior and judge that as according to our beliefs, but not the soul.
The world is the whipping boy, and in it, there is absolutely no mercy.
So, Mercy than has to come from us. Perhaps we can rescue some of them with our love.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
Homosexuality? What does the bible say:
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
God gives them up! What does that mean? Don’t expect any blessings from God, but do go your own way.
And expect recompense for that error.
Now, if your organization has rules against homosexuality, then by their own laws you must adhere to them.
Homosexuality is like any other sin, because sin is sin.
Simply put: You want Gods blessings, than become obedient to His desires, otherwise, suffer the consequences without God’s help.
The souls that are in those bodies are precious unto the Lord. No different than mine.
We should instruct them with compassion and love and perhaps, maybe perhaps they might repent. (Change their minds)
But there has to be a structured code as per the verses above that contrast the acceptance or rejection of homosexual behavior but not rejection of the soul.
All of us sins in one way or the other. So, we are not exempt to judge and condemn another sinner’s soul to hell. Regardless: of the sin.
We may address the behavior and judge that as according to our beliefs, but not the soul.
The world is the whipping boy, and in it, there is absolutely no mercy.
So, Mercy than has to come from us. Perhaps we can rescue some of them with our love.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
There is a difference between a heart of stone and a hert of flesh.
One is the law, the other is grace.
The law and grace don't mix.
It's like having two masters. Either it's the one or the other, but not two.
Judging with the letter of the law: kills.
Judging with grace: saves.
Moses was the law and Jesus is grace.
Jesus fulfilled the law of Moses so that we may have grace only.
If than by grace, it is no longer the law that kills, but by grace that maketh alive.
If we let Christ rule in our hearts, then we judge righteously by grace.
For if grace, where than is the condemnation?
If we condemn is because we think the law applies, but under grace each individual is a law unto themselves.
God allows us to excercise our individual rights. I mean that's what it's all about.
What restrains us from doing evil, is not the law, but the desire to obey God. A want to, instead of a: have to.
Our choice!
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
One is the law, the other is grace.
The law and grace don't mix.
It's like having two masters. Either it's the one or the other, but not two.
Judging with the letter of the law: kills.
Judging with grace: saves.
Moses was the law and Jesus is grace.
Jesus fulfilled the law of Moses so that we may have grace only.
If than by grace, it is no longer the law that kills, but by grace that maketh alive.
If we let Christ rule in our hearts, then we judge righteously by grace.
For if grace, where than is the condemnation?
If we condemn is because we think the law applies, but under grace each individual is a law unto themselves.
God allows us to excercise our individual rights. I mean that's what it's all about.
What restrains us from doing evil, is not the law, but the desire to obey God. A want to, instead of a: have to.
Our choice!
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
Their only choice is the same one instructed for all non-married people, to live chaste and celibate.
The Church does not condemn them for their inclinations, but the behaviour.
You're free to think that, however untrue it may be. Where do you see hatred? where in the quotations from the Catechism do you read "we hate those who have chosen to live as homosexuals"??? "Hate" is the new buzzword used to give permission for immorality.