Abortion is wrong no matter what! Part 2

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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It's pretty obvious that I'm a guy.
So what in Gods name gives you the right to tell a woman what she can or can not do with her body???
I strongly, but strongly disgaree. I think it is immoral and out and out murder. It is a cultural excuse to be sexually active. I believe in old fashioned advice my mother gave me way back in 62-63 when she had the "talk" with me, if you don't want a baby, keep your legs closed.
I wouldn't doubt you dissagree, I have you seen your true colours exposed in your own cruel words. If it isn't condoned by the Church, it should be banned. Welcome to the Christian fascist state.
Because it is immoral, it is a sin and it is murder..are these enough reasons for you?
It's only immoral and or a sin in your eyes and the eyes of the indoctrinated members or your faith. You do not control, nor do you have the right to, the rest of the country, thank your God.
As it suits society, right? Every law we have in the west arrived to us through biblical teachings, so now we are to pick those things we want or don't want, right?
Yes most laws are based on Christian fundamental ideologies, but they have been addapted to fit an evolving world and that is a good thing. If we didn't evolve our laws and ourselves, we would be stuck with the Churches views on the flat planet, the sun orbiting the earth and so on. But don't let progress get in the way of your intolerance.
It's always like this with anti-Church people, they scream about the intolerance of the Church and refuse too acknowledge their own intolerance.
Look, no one posts anything anti Church until the resident religious spammer goes and posts intolerance filled pieces on others religions, or others come along and start talking about subjugating womens rights, with all the Catholic Zealots following along blindly bleating like the Church has trained it good sheeple.
How much is none of our business in Canada? Is it none of our business if a mother murders her day old baby because she changed her mind?
Right on Rene, it is none of your business what anyone else does. If you are so religious and so sure God exists, then you should believe that "murdered" child is innocent and gets an automatic pass through the Pearly gates. The mother a one way trip down. If so, this isn't enough for you? You want to force your religious views on her? How fascist of you!!!
lol I try to too. In my opinion.....I know here we go again........A woman has a choice, its THEIR choice. In all the experiences that Ive had Ive never chose abortion BUT it was MY choice.
Yes it was your choice, is your choice and by God will always be your choice.
 
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CDNBear

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Right. We always have. Read the rules for correct behaviour in Leviticus and Deuteronomy lately? Many of them would get you into serious trouble with the law these days. Stoning adulterers and rebellious children to death, murdering people who work on Sundays... Our laws don't come from biblical teachings and they never have, we pick what suits us based on existing social conditions and mores. Your claim is just a post hoc rationalization.
I really hate to say this Dex, you know you always get my props, but the Magna Carta the Grandfather of our Constitution and The Draconian laws of Kebec, were born of Christion common law and such. I'm not sure on the exact amount and to what extent, I really wish ITN got in these topics sometimes, lol. He'ld know. But I would put money on I'm right here. Although it hurts to admit it.
 

Dexter Sinister

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Oct 1, 2004
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Yes Bear, I agree, mostly, I'm not suggesting Christianity's had no influence on the law, obviously it has, but it's not the only, or even the primary, source. On the matter of abortion specifically, the Bible is almost entirely silent, and nowhere does it explicitly forbid it. There are something over 600 prescriptions for correct behaviour listed in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, and no nominally Christian nation has implemented any of them in law.
 

CDNBear

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Yes Bear, I agree, mostly, I'm not suggesting Christianity's had no influence on the law, obviously it has, but it's not the only, or even the primary, source. On the matter of abortion specifically, the Bible is almost entirely silent, and nowhere does it explicitly forbid it. There are something over 600 prescriptions for correct behaviour listed in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, and no nominally Christian nation has implemented any of them in law.
And for good reason!!!

Good on ya Dex. You always get my props!!!
 

Curiosity

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Jul 30, 2005
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MaryGaspe

Your mother's words to you about keeping your legs closed were appropriate for you at the time....but there are many other scenarious you have omitted regarding the actual creation of a child....

Rape, incest, gang bang, intoxication, drug overdose, mental incapability, and so on. Many children are created through "not so tidy" circumstances. This does not negate the right of the child to be born, but the mother still must have some "rights" as well... if she can bear the decision she might make.

Abortion is often the "solution" for many of the women abused already who cannot comprehend the concept of bearing a child from their experience.... whether it is right or wrong... we cannot judge
anyone for their decision. They alone bear the burden.

Many women come from the abortion decision with a life-long burden which they finally are able to understand and articulate - not that it frees them from the burden, but it does make the burden more
easily carried.... no woman is left unscarred.... even at the most cruel of times for her....

Be gentle in your judgment.
 

TenPenny

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" no woman is left unscarred"

And just in case you cared, for at least some of the men involved, there is always a doubt about whether it was the right decision or not....every human being second guesses their decisions. Even when you're sure that you made the right decision in the circumstances, you sometimes wonder later how the world would have been different.

But we all have to make decisions every day that could change our lives, whether it is to drink and drive, or to eat a sandwich. Either of those decisions, too, could radically change many lives.
 

selfactivated

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" no woman is left unscarred"

And just in case you cared, for at least some of the men involved, there is always a doubt about whether it was the right decision or not....every human being second guesses their decisions. Even when you're sure that you made the right decision in the circumstances, you sometimes wonder later how the world would have been different.

But we all have to make decisions every day that could change our lives, whether it is to drink and drive, or to eat a sandwich. Either of those decisions, too, could radically change many lives.

I care and I do know. Please forgive us for not acknowledging the other siide of this.
 

Curiosity

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TenPenny

Should I apologize? I wonder. The point I made in my message was many women have no choice when they are impregnated.... by the examples I gave.

By all means consider the men in the scenario....but not in the context I was pointing out.... and whether you felt the great need to make that remark:

I do care.... more than you will ever be called upon to demonstrate.

If a woman had the support of a man who wished she carry a child to term even under the most terrible of circumstances..... she may of course change her mind with that added dimension of love which could alter the circumstances....

Life isn't fair however and many abortions are left to the woman's decision alone..... not because she wouldn't love to share with the man... but may not even know who that man or men was....
 

tracy

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I think your post was thoughtful Curio.

I would also love it if the pro-life people would consider the fact that abortions are done on wanted pregnancies as well. I've participated in them as a nurse and none of our families WANTED to abort their unborn child, it was just the better choice for them at the time. They agonize over their decision and don't deserve the condemnation of those who will never understand their situation. I don't understand how anyone with any sort of compassion could look at some of the suffering babies I've seen and NOT think abortion would have been kinder to them.

My general opinion on abortion is if you don't agree with them, don't have one. Otherwise butt out. If it was nearly as sinful as the bible people tell us, I would think there would be a specific prohibition against it in the bible and there isn't.
 

Zzarchov

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Ideals are one thing, Hate Mongering is another. Whats wrong with freedom of choice?

That means he can choose to be hateful. You don't have to like what he says, and certainly not obey it..be he has every right to say it none the less.
 

TenPenny

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TenPenny

Should I apologize? I wonder.

When I grabbed that phrase from your post, I was considering rewording my "in case you care", because I meant "you" in the more general, not specific, sense. But then I thought that it was unlikely that you would think I was specifically making the comment to you, since I wasn't using the html "" tags.

I guess I should have used the New Brunswick phrase "youse" instead.
 

selfactivated

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That means he can choose to be hateful. You don't have to like what he says, and certainly not obey it..be he has every right to say it none the less.


I disagree, hate is invasive. Its hurtful and when people hate me I cry. If someone doesnt like me thats fine but hating me, wishing me harm (or anyone else) then thats different.
 

Zzarchov

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I disagree, hate is invasive. Its hurtful and when people hate me I cry. If someone doesnt like me thats fine but hating me, wishing me harm (or anyone else) then thats different.

I disagree, if I hate something, that is my right to hate. You have no right to tell me what to think, that is invasive.

When many christians see people doing things they consider wrong it actually makes them cry, and to them it is hateful of god. Does that mean you shouldn't be able to say anything any faith considers blasphemous?
 

RomSpaceKnight

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I agree hate is unacceptable. Disagree or dislike all you want but propagating hate is unacceptable. Extreme cases are also punishable under the law. Personal insults and bad manners are usually counter productive as well.
 

selfactivated

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I disagree, if I hate something, that is my right to hate. You have no right to tell me what to think, that is invasive.

When many christians see people doing things they consider wrong it actually makes them cry, and to them it is hateful of god. Does that mean you shouldn't be able to say anything any faith considers blasphemous?


I would give my life to not hurt another person........But thats my faith. To Hate is delete the spirit not just of the one hating but the one hated. Dislike what another does but to hate that person for being human, in need, or having a different oppinion thats more than I can comprehend. People wish me dead because Im not of your faith. and yet I still wish you Love. People have killed doctors and nurses and scared women for having and giving abortions thats hate. I will stop that from happening, Its not your right.
 

RomSpaceKnight

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Excerpts from Hate Crimes and Jesus:
Standing Firm in Love
A Sermon by Pastor John © Sept. 1999 (revised 8-3-2006
)


http://www.allfaith.com/Grace/hate.html

The teachings of Jesus have a lot to offer us in the area of hate and hate crimes. After all, he was an innocent victim of a terrible, fatal hate crime himself! Jesus was ridiculed, tortured and murdered because his religious and political belief did not match up with those of his people and the occupation government then ruling Palestine.

We sometimes want to "Do unto others before they do unto us." We are paranoid, afraid of what we don't understand and so we sometimes lash out. Sometimes when we feel insecure about who we are as individuals we "Do unto others as we think we deserve to have done unto us." By making someone else look "lower" we assume that we look "higher" by contrast. Sometimes we do this with cute little phrases like "There but for the grace of God go I" or one of my favorites, "I hate the sin, but I love the sinner!" Smug little phrases meant to elevate us in the esteem of others, and ourselves. Since I am better than you are, I must be OK! What nonsense!

Scripture says at Acts 17:26:
"From one person God made every nation of people, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and God determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live."​
We are all sisters and brothers, children in the one human family.
Someone might argue, "Yes, but we are not all alike and we have to watch out for "them!" "They" are not like "us." "We're" the good guys!
My dear Lord, how boring life would be without diversity! Yet "different" does not mean "dangerous!" Salt and pepper compliment each other! Night and day follow each other; high and low define each other. So too with the human family, our diversity gives us many flavors and alternatives. It makes us unique and interesting.

Jesus taught at Matthew 5:38-48:
"You have heard that it was said, `Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. God causes the sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
And if you greet only your brothers and sisters, what are you doing more than others? Do not even unchurched do that?
Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect

16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man

Where there is hatred,
Let me sow love;
Where there is injury, pardon;
Where there is error, truth;
Where there is doubt, faith;
Where there is despair, hope;
Where there is darkness, light;
And where there is sadness, Joy.

O Divine Master grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled
As to console;
To be understood, as to understand;
To be loved, as to love.
For it is in giving that we receive,
It is in pardoning that we are pardoned,
And it is in dying that we are born to eternal life.