paganism was the earth based religion that was taking place all over before Christianity began. I think it's pretty silly of the church to think that everyone was satanic before Christ came into the picture. Sure, there were abuses in paganism, much like there have been in the history of the church, but they're no more satanists than catholics are. Becoming involved in any religion though, requires seriously questioning the ideals behind it. Especially because of the lack of set rules within paganism, there is a lot of fear there that it would be easy to get swept into a cult under the guise of 'pagan beliefs', and not realize it until it was too late that you were not involved with pagans at all, but rather, darker beliefs. But, if you're actively questioning everything, and basing your beliefs on your own gut, you'll have no issues maple.
The New Paganism and the Culture of Death
- Thread starter sanctus
- Start date
paganism was the earth based religion that was taking place all over before Christianity began. I think it's pretty silly of the church to think that everyone was satanic before Christ came into the picture. Sure, there were abuses in paganism, much like there have been in the history of the church, but they're no more satanists than catholics are. Becoming involved in any religion though, requires seriously questioning the ideals behind it. Especially because of the lack of set rules within paganism, there is a lot of fear there that it would be easy to get swept into a cult under the guise of 'pagan beliefs', and not realize it until it was too late that you were not involved with pagans at all, but rather, darker beliefs. But, if you're actively questioning everything, and basing your beliefs on your own gut, you'll have no issues maple.
thanks. that makes sense too. the church sure has a hard-on about pagans though, that much i gathered from my priest! but you know what, people can get into cults that say theyre christian and are actually harmful. did you ever hear about this thing in waco texas and the guy burned the place down and killed everybody cos he said he was jesus. we studied it in school. pretty freaky.
I hate to say it, because I enjoy my faith, but asking a Catholic priest about another religion at times can be much like asking a Ford dealer if you should by a Chev or not. You can't always take the information they'll have for you at face value.
That's why, even though you're looking at joining the Catholic church, I STRESS that you ask questions. always ask questions. because even in the church, there are different sects, different beliefs. Some parishes hold different views and can be very hard to deal with. Some priests on the other hand can be very educational and open.
```Jews and Christians alike, at this hour, in this nation, face Joshua's choice. Whom will we serve? The false gods of liberal secularism? Or the Lord God of Israel?```
If adhering to the Bible's laws are of paramount importance, you may begin by condemning Zionism as it has no biblical basis and, as taught by Orthodox Jews, is blasphemy:
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/scriptures/torah/tanach.pdf
and all biblical laws are eternal:
http://www.gods-10-commandments.com/
If adhering to the Bible's laws are of paramount importance, you may begin by condemning Zionism as it has no biblical basis and, as taught by Orthodox Jews, is blasphemy:
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/scriptures/torah/tanach.pdf
and all biblical laws are eternal:
http://www.gods-10-commandments.com/
LOL, Sanctus! This post reminded me of a "Simpsons" episode, in which Bart kept saying "I didn't do it!". Your attitude is the same. Of course I know that you weren't a part of the crusades. I am even ready to admit that you didn't personally burn Geordano Bruno
However, if we treat this subject seriously, I have one thing to say to you - you are a priest, as far as I understand. And as such, you represent your church while talking to other people. And since you represent your church as an organized institution, you should also accept responsibility for its actions and decisions. And saying such things as, I don't know, I wasn't there, I have nothing to do with it, is rather inappropriate, to say the least. The only possible excuse for this kind of behavior is that you have got nothing to say, Sanctus.
By the way, I read a lot of posts in this thread, saying that Paganism is all about narcissistic pleasures. Paganism is about responsibility. It is mainly about taking full responsibility for your actions, be they correct or not.
No, Chukcha, my father's name isn't Stalin or Brezhnev. His name is Koloskov, if you are interested. And if you take time to explain to me, just what is so totalitarian in trying to defend my convictions, and which of my words from this thread reminded you of communism, I will be very much obliged to you indeed.Oh, another smartie
And the next step of your manaure would be showing the way to the Bright Communism, I know, Vereya, I read a lot of your posts, I sort of beginning to understand where you're coming from.
Your father's name wouldn't be Stalin or Brezhnev by any chance, would it?
I can smell the despot totallitarian here, it stinks already.
And a word of advice for you - if you smell something stinking, maybe, it is time to clean your room?
Self-activated, I have absolutely the same feeling about some people here.
You're right.
I am sorry to be over reactive unreasonably.
I read your posts again, and I appologise, I must be too bloody paranoid lately.
Not going to write in any forums from now, don't know what's wrong with me.
Adieus.
Forgive me.
LOL, Sanctus! This post reminded me of a "Simpsons" episode, in which Bart kept saying "I didn't do it!". Your attitude is the same. Of course I know that you weren't a part of the crusades. I am even ready to admit that you didn't personally burn Geordano Bruno
However, if we treat this subject seriously, I have one thing to say to you - you are a priest, as far as I understand. And as such, you represent your church while talking to other people. And since you represent your church as an organized institution, you should also accept responsibility for its actions and decisions. And saying such things as, I don't know, I wasn't there, I have nothing to do with it, is rather inappropriate, to say the least. The only possible excuse for this kind of behavior is that you have got nothing to say, Sanctus.
By the way, I read a lot of posts in this thread, saying that Paganism is all about narcissistic pleasures. Paganism is about responsibility. It is mainly about taking full responsibility for your actions, be they correct or not.
It is not, I believe, inappropriate. I did not deny that these event have happened, but I refuse to take responsiblity for things that happened long before we were all born. It is the same mentality that one could throw against white people for slavery. In other words, that you and I are responsible for those events that lead to the enslavement of black people centuries before we were born. We can only be here, where we are, right now and that is what we are expected to condition ourselves to by God.
Odd that you lump the Jews in, considering they have, for the most part, rejected the Messiah, but your point is germaine none-the-less.
And seeing as you are here...
Why then if you fail to see recognizing the past injustice as a part of your history, do you continuously make the same errors as those that erred in the past?
Your intolerance, lies and misguiding, is just the past revisited and relived.
Your ignorance of one faith and blind aping of another, is exactly what led to the deaths of innocent woman under the watchful eye of the church.
Whether one "believes" it or not, it's an occult religion:
Occult:
of or pertaining to magic, astrology, or any system claiming use or knowledge of secret or supernatural powers or agencies.
Religion:
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
It's roots are not of God, and in fact lead people away from God.
It's dangerous and I would stay as far away from it as possible!
That would have been absolutely right, Sanctus, have you been here just as an ordinary person, an ordinary christian. But since you postion yourself as a priest, you represent the church as an official institution. You chose the position yourself, so face the consequences. Have you been a layman, your answer "I wasn't there, I don't know and I don't care" would have been acceptable. Look at the situation this way - we are talking to each other, me (just an ordinary Pagan, not a Priestess, nothing of the kind) and you (a christian priest). I answer everything you say, I expalin every point that I make with examples, I listen to your words attentively, and I try to answer you as fully as I can. I read your posts, I even look up Bible quotes to substantiate my words. And the only response I get from you is someone's ideas that you quote here, plain unsubstantiated abuse of my beliefs, and saying that you are not responsible for anything. Now, do you realize your position, Sanctus? Do you realize that not only christians and Pagans read this thread, but also people, who haven't chosen their Religion yet. They look upon you as upon the voice of your church here. And seeing the weakness of your position they might naturally interpret it as the weakness of your church. Don't you think so?
No I do not agree. It is, in my opinion, improper to hold anyone today to blame for the behaviour and/or actions of our ancestors. I realize that this is very much a modern ideology, that of being held accountable for what went on centuries ago, but such a position is impossible! Nothing I can do now can fix what happened at that time. Nor would I have necessarily agreed with the actions of those misled people who mis-used the Gospel to justify murder. Like those today who would do so, I am saddened that people use God or Holy Mother Church to justfiy their evil actions.
That being said, I refuse, logically, to blame myself or the Church as a structure, for the behaviour of some of its membership, especially if that behaviour is centuries old.
We must live now, not yesterday and not tomorrow. Understanding the past is a process to better our today, but in the process we must never hold ourselves personally accountable for those actions. Though popular these days to do so, the position is, as I have already stated, impossible for anyone to defend.
If members of your family in 1550 had been bloodthirsty murderers, your premise would suggest that you too share the blame for their actions.
And further, with a big smile, I am very much an ordinary person, thank you very much. Designating my vocation does not mean I have been appointed to act as the representative of my employers
Especially if the question involves a pagan faith group! After all, one can hardly expect them to endorse the "other side"
Last edited:
I think we should view the past as lessons for the present. I do not deny that. However, I simply refuse to feel personally responsible for behaviour or actions done before my time.It is simply impossible to do anything other then learn from the past.
Where to you come up with this stuff..."any system claiming use or knowledge of secret or supernatural powers or agencies."
Christ rose from the dead...
Christ turned water into wine....
Christ walked on water....
If we're free to forget about atrocities in the past before we were born....to tell the Jews that their Holocaust memorials are as useless as remembering the slaughter of millions under the aegis of the Roman Catholic Church...
Christ rose from the dead...
Christ turned water into wine....
Christ walked on water....
If we're free to forget about atrocities in the past before we were born....to tell the Jews that their Holocaust memorials are as useless as remembering the slaughter of millions under the aegis of the Roman Catholic Church...