Trudeau exaggerated FLQ crisis

sanctus

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Oct 27, 2006
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PM told British 'no conspiracy' behind October Crisis: newly declassified files
Bruce Wallace
The Ottawa Citizen
LONDON -- Canada's federal government confided to the British government during the 1970 October Crisis it had "no evidence of an extensive and co-ordinated FLQ conspiracy," despite public declarations at home that the extraordinary police powers of the War Measures Act were necessary to fight an "apprehended insurrection."
The blunt assessment is contained in notes of a meeting in London on Nov. 26, 1970, between then-external affairs minister Mitchell Sharp and Sir Alec Douglas-Home, his British counterpart. They were unsealed this week, along with thousands of other British government documents, after a legally required interim of 30 years.
Mr. Sharp is recorded as saying "the War Measures Act was clearly too broad in its effect," which was why Canada was then in the process of introducing a less draconian public-order law. The minutes of the meeting also show Mr. Sharp expressing surprise and frustration at the inability of police to find and free kidnapped British trade commissioner James Cross.
"Canada needed a more sophisticated police force to cope with the new kind of political threat," he reportedly told Sir Alec and other senior officials from the two countries in a late-afternoon meeting in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. Mr. Sharp said his government had been "startled to find after the kidnapping that the RCMP had no adequate list of FLQ suspects."
The problem facing the government and police, he said, is that "individual operations had been well-planned and disciplined and security within the small cells was tight, which made counter-action the more difficult."
But Mr. Sharp also expressed a firm opinion that Mr. Cross was still alive, arguing the FLQ kidnappers were aware they had made a political miscalculation in killing Quebec justice minister Pierre Laporte, their second kidnap victim.
He speculated that Mr. Laporte's murder was not premeditated but rather the result of panic, a fight, or a miscalculation brought on by drug use by the kidnappers.
"Politically it made no sense," Mr. Sharp is quoted as saying, proceeding to outline another, more dire scenario for the authorities. "If they had killed Mr. Cross and then threatened the life of Mr. Laporte, the provincial government might well have sought to give way," he said.
Mr. Sharp, 89, is currently an unpaid adviser to and close friend of Prime Minister Jean Chretien. He recently re-married and is living in Ottawa.
The newly released British documents suggest that from the beginning, Canada's prevailing view was that the FLQ remained a small band of thugs -- certainly at least until Mr. Laporte was snatched from his South Shore Montreal home on Oct. 10. In a telephone conversation with Mr. Sharp the day before, Sir Alec asked whether the Cross kidnappers were "a particularly tough lot."
"They were very tough, and very young and irresponsible," Mr. Sharp is quoted as answering. But, he added, "there was no big organization involved, just a collection of young toughs."
The documents show that Mr. Cross himself formed the same opinion during his 59-day ordeal -- that the FLQ hardly represented a coherent threat. In his de-briefing to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office also released this week, he said his abductors "had no expectation that their activities would lead to an independent Quebec within 50 years."
They were merely thrilled to be thumbing their noses at the powers of the state, Mr. Cross said, describing his captors as always hard up for money. He described their radical politics as "ill-informed" with only a "superficial understanding of Marxism."
The question of whether there was evidence to justify imposing the War Measures Act has been one of the most controversial and hotly debated points of modern Canadian history. The Canadian, Quebec and Montreal civic governments all insisted at the time that they had evidence of a conspiracy by the FLQ to overthrow elected governments, without revealing exactly the basis of that belief.
Quebec premier Robert Bourassa, in his Oct. 16, 1970 letter to prime minister Pierre Trudeau asking the federal government to grant police extraordinary powers, declared his government was "facing a concerted effort to intimidate and overthrow the government and the democratic institutions of this province through planned and systematic illegal action, including insurrection."
Montreal police chief Michel St. Pierre also wrote Mr. Trudeau arguing that the kidnappings of Mr. Cross and Mr. Laporte on Oct. 10 represented "the launching by this movement of their seditious projects and acts leading directly to the overthrow of the state."
Critics of the Trudeau government's use of the War Measures Act have always alleged no such evidence existed, and that the three levels of government overstated the threat posed by the FLQ.
 

Nuggler

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Feb 27, 2006
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C'est le guerre, non? "gaelic shrug"

:evil3:piece o'crap Sanctus, sorry;

The FLQ was raising merry hell here (you had to live it), and things looked liked they could go "IRA". Of course there was never any belief that they would overthrow the country, but they did manage a couple of kidnappings and a murder.

What needed to happen was exactly what happened. Trudeau proclaimed the War Measures Act, and the rest is history, to be endlessly debated by the libs and cons and whomever else. The result was it gave the country room to breathe while the cops and the army did their work, and sort of nipped a lot of stuff in the bud. Don't mind saying, it was getting damn scarey.

Another result was you now have the also endless ivory tower debate over "sovereign" state of P.Q. or "not", by people who never get their hands dirty, and that's ok. As long as they're talking, they're not shooting. It also showed that the support for the FLQ was minute, fractious, and on a local scale; just what we needed to see.

Funny thing: You get a politico with no guts to do anything and they're vilified as a hand-wringing pinko. Trudeau called their bluff and he's a hand wringing pinko...........go figure.

Personally, I've always believed that Quebec pretty much constitutes maybe not a "sovereign" state, but something definately different, and they should be allowed to percolate in their own coffee maker as long as they want. Long as we can do the same. Nous nous souviens aussi.

Just MHO.

Ugg:grommit:
 

#juan

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The one thing that stll irks me about the kidnappings of Cross and Laport is that the skumbag that strangled Pierre Laport while he was tied hand and foot, ended up working for the Bloc under Lucien Bouchard. for about ten years.
 
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sanctus

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:evil3:piece o'crap Sanctus, sorry;

The FLQ was raising merry hell here (you had to live it), and things looked liked they could go "IRA". Of course there was never any belief that they would overthrow the country, but they did manage a couple of kidnappings and a murder.



Ugg:grommit:

No need to apologize to me. I just shared the article. Personally, I am inclined to agree with you. I think PM Trudeau acted with strength and resolve during a difficult time to show people like the FLQ members that this sort of behaviour would not be tolerated by the Canadian government.I think it worked, at least during his governments' run in Parliament. I admire the strength and federalist position of Mr. Trudeau a great deal.
 
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Colpy

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Personally, I think my hero Pierre behaved like a tinpot Pinochet........his authoritarian streak came to the surface in spades. The man was simply an extremely nasty, incompetent individual. How he has wound up as an icon of Canadian politics is absolutely beyond me.

And, for the leftists on the board, how about some consistency?

I mean the Americans lost over 2500 people in an attack on their nation, yet people howl about the Patriot Act, and the confinement in Guantanamo Bay without trial................and the same people think Pierre Trudeau was right in suspending civil liberties COMPLETELY, and instigating martial law BEFORE ANYONE EVEN DIED. The murder was a reaction to the War Measures Act.

Can this be because Trudeau was left, and Bush is right?
 
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MikeyDB

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Interesting point Colpy....

Is it beyond the realm of possibility for you to consider that both reactions were wrong?
 

Colpy

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Interesting point Colpy....

Is it beyond the realm of possibility for you to consider that both reactions were wrong?

I DO think both reactions were wrong, if we are speaking of the War Measures Act and the post 9-11 assault on American Liberty that is the Patriot Act.
 

BitWhys

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October Crisis: a very real threat (bombs and all) for a definite period of time within our own borders.

The War and Terra©®: a generic threat with no clear end from pretty well anywhere that spooks them.

I gotta say comparing the stacking of bikers and rounders in the hoosegow, refusing them the use of ashtrays and letting photojournalists splash pictures them on the front page for a few weeks, to systematically holding people away from the public eye for months and years on end is pushing it.

Quebec ASKED for military assistance. Sure, Trudeau ended up sending in not just the military but the **** ing military, but at the time he had the support of the VAST majority of Canadians and managed to lift martial law well before the charm wore off.

I was too young to form an opinion of it then and have no interest in playing armchair quarterback about it now. Just saying that the two actions have less in common than a simple question may imply.
 

Sparrow

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Nov 12, 2006
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As a Quebecer myself I remember those days. People were scared and Trudeau did the right thing. There will always be people to protest, and in this case they had their field day. If Trudeau had done nothing they would have said "Look English Canada are ignoring us in our time of need", so he was damned if he did and damned if he didn't. Also that scumbag that strangled PLaporte and ended up working for the Boc just goes to show you what kind of a party it was and probably still is, uncomprehensible!
 

Nuggler

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Feb 27, 2006
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forgot about that

That brave man who strangled a helpless bound captive. :pukeright:

Thanks for jogging the memory bank.

Now I remember why I thought (and think) the FLQ were comprised of a lot of
feces eating lice sh*t, lower than whale excrement, cowardly momma doers.

Course I'm probably being PC for stating that. Ah well..............:munky2:

What's he doing now? Anyone know. Still with the Pequistes? Did karma finally catch up to him?

Course he probably "served his time", and everythings ok now.

Nous nous souviens aussi, dickheads.:angry6:

:grommit:le woof.
 

RomSpaceKnight

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Oct 30, 2006
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Trudeau acted decisively by using the War Measures Act. Then it was repealed when the crisis was over. He did use the Act as a continuing basis for paranoid infringement on the rights of Canadians unlike Bush and the Patriot Act.
 

AndyF

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sanctus:

Gosh, that's almost a verbatim quote from my dad watching television news back then. He said it was no more than a standard criminal case.

AndyF
 

AndyF

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Trudeau acted decisively by using the War Measures Act. Then it was repealed when the crisis was over. He did use the Act as a continuing basis for paranoid infringement on the rights of Canadians unlike Bush and the Patriot Act.

That from the man who coined the phrase "the government has no business in the bedrooms of the nation". :confused: Seems like junior wants dad's job, so we can expect more of the same I guess.

AndyF
 

CDNBear

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What amazes me is that the Federal Governement would bring in the War Measures act, while the Federal Policing Agency, the RCMP, would be forced to guard sensative buildings in Quebec, with unloaded revolvers. As my Dad, a retired RCMP Officer, who was in service during the FLQ crisisand stood on guard for thee, with no bullets in his gun, will tell you, they were told that the powers that be, did not want dead student protesters on the CBC. This would result in several RCMP Officers being severely injured, by the hockey stick spear carrying crowds of French terrorists. Yet many of these people call Native protestors terrorists. The looney lib left and the seperatists boggle the mind.

The hypocracy is baffling!

Colpy, your connection is valid, your questioning of the lack of consistancy in the looney left is more then justified. Their hypocracy, as exampled by soooo many here at CC, is beyond belief!
 

CDNBear

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If anything, it didn't go far enough, nor did the sentencing of the individuals invovled. That's not surprising considering the Liberal regimes that put the judges on the bench, that handed down the lax sentencing and the lax prison terms.

Ex-FLQ member arrested for firebombings

Last Updated: Saturday, October 21, 2000 | 3:53 PM ET

CBC News


A former terrorist who was jailed for bomb attacks 30 years ago has been charged in the recent firebombings of three coffee shops in Quebec. Montreal police believe Réal Mathieu, 53, founded the French Self-Defence Brigade which claimed responsibility for the Oct. 5 attacks on the Second Cup stores.
The group warned it would target businesses with English names, mentioning Second Cup in particular. Police believe the anti-English group has been neutralized now that officials have identified all five members.
Police say they traced the group's e-mail threat with help from computer company Microsoft.
Mathieu is a former member of the FLQ, or Front de libération du Quebec, a separatist terrorist group in the '60s.
In 1967, Mathieu pleaded guilty to several charges, including two counts of manslaughter. A woman died when a bomb went off at a strike-bound shoe factory and an FLQ member working with Mathieu was killed as he planted another bomb.
Mathieu served seven years of a nine-year sentence. He later received a pardon.

The FLQ launched Canada into the October Crisis in 1970, when it kidnapped British trade commissioner James Cross and later killed Quebec cabinet minister Pierre Laporte.
The Oct. 5 firebombings coincided with the 30th anniversary of Cross's kidnapping, but police say they don't believe the two events are linked.
Mathieu faces eight charges, including intent to cause harm using an explosive and possession of prohibited and restricted weapons.
He will stay in custody pending a bail hearing Monday.
Three restaurants, two retail stores and a church where an English-rights lobby group was scheduled to meet have all been attacked since last December. Police are still investigation those incidents.
 

mapleleafgirl

Electoral Member
Dec 13, 2006
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What amazes me is that the Federal Governement would bring in the War Measures act, while the Federal Policing Agency, the RCMP, would be forced to guard sensative buildings in Quebec, with unloaded revolvers. As my Dad, a retired RCMP Officer, who was in service during the FLQ crisisand stood on guard for thee, with no bullets in his gun, will tell you, they were told that the powers that be, did not want dead student protesters on the CBC. This would result in several RCMP Officers being severely injured, by the hockey stick spear carrying crowds of French terrorists. Yet many of these people call Native protestors terrorists. The looney lib left and the seperatists boggle the mind.

The hypocracy is baffling!

Colpy, your connection is valid, your questioning of the lack of consistancy in the looney left is more then justified. Their hypocracy, as exampled by soooo many here at CC, is beyond belief!


but didnt the soldiers guard in quebec too at the time? why wouldnt the rcmp have guns in that sort of a crisis?

i know what you mean about indian terrorists too. seems like theyre never happier than when they are causing trouble.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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but didnt the soldiers guard in quebec too at the time? why wouldnt the rcmp have guns in that sort of a crisis?
Probably because back then the RCMP was a real force, 6 months of basic training, hard men doing an even harder job, they were likely more prone to reacting with deadly force then the Trudeau pussified Armed Forces.

{quote=mapleleafgirl;774950]
i know what you mean about indian terrorists too. seems like theyre never happier than when they are causing trouble.[/quote]
You obviously missed the sarcasm and after reading some of your posts on the First Nations, that doesn't surprise me. You're a bigot.
 

mapleleafgirl

Electoral Member
Dec 13, 2006
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Probably because back then the RCMP was a real force, 6 months of basic training, hard men doing an even harder job, they were likely more prone to reacting with deadly force then the Trudeau pussified Armed Forces.

{quote=mapleleafgirl;774950]
i know what you mean about indian terrorists too. seems like theyre never happier than when they are causing trouble.
You obviously missed the sarcasm and after reading some of your posts on the First Nations, that doesn't surprise me. You're a bigot.[/quote]


i am not, i just dont believe indians should have special rights or status. i think our government should be firm with them and make them work for a livng instead of waiting for money from te taxpayers. who cares now who was here first, we won, they lost, end of story. lets get on with it. i have no sympathy for them at all.to me, there like the royal family, expensive parasites.
 

m_levesque

Electoral Member
Dec 18, 2006
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i am not, i just dont believe indians should have special rights or status. i think our government should be firm with them and make them work for a livng instead of waiting for money from te taxpayers. who cares now who was here first, we won, they lost, end of story. lets get on with it. i have no sympathy for them at all.to me, there like the royal family, expensive parasites.

Bravo! i could not agree with you more! Problem is, people today are afraid to speak this truth. And if you do, they label you a bigot. It is not being a bigot at all, It is way past time for these so called "natives" to be on the government payroll. Make work projects for them and stop any and all treaties and payments.