Night Gallery was even better. Wish I had those. Also, Outer Limits was cool. I can't remember where I got them. Might have been Columbia House. They're in storage right now so I can't go look.
How can we get rid of our sinfulness?
- Thread starter sanctus
- Start date
Yeah, it's one thing to have people offer money and things, but it's a whole different ball game when you request it. My boss took us out for christmas dinner one time. Fancy restaurant. Good grub and good service but they were arrogant enough to "suggest" a tip: it said "suggested tip" right on the tabsheet. I think the boss gave them 5% and not one of us has been back since.
wowwwwwww. i read this through about three times already. you pretty well settled that argument about the bible or the church as authority. but ok, why do people like aj put faith in the bible and not the church. or is it spposed to be both? is it a sin to worship things of god by the way, like the bible for example?
Nuts! Maybe you fell, I didn't. I don't proclaim to be the expert in anything because I can always learn more. I'm also willing to admit when I'm wrong, it doesn't hurt. These people, on the other hand, go on tv purporting to speak for their god and tell everyone what their god requires. They are the "experts" and aren't shy about linking people to that idea. That's why they are hurt when they are caught and have to admit being wrong. It's a simple result of the 1st cardinal sin. (Um, that's pride, in case anyone has forgotten). Hence the aphorism, "pride goes before the fall". (The author wasn't speaking of the seasons.)
i saw him on tv with his new wife and i wondered if he thought about that bible thing about remarrying cos i just read that. it is pretty clear in the bible that it says if a man and wife divorce that they are still like married for god or someting like that. so it goes on to say that if a man remarries and the first wife is like still alive then that is adultery. does jim baker read the bible orwhat? it dosent apply to him? that is why i am going to steer clear of those kinds of guys and gonna get into thse classes sanctus tld me about to join the catholic church. hey, it may have some messes but if im gonna be a christian im gonna go with the one that makes the best sense to me and it is hard to argue with an organization that has lasted 2000 years already.
--------------------Continued from my last post---------
He who would not take those promises throughout one’s life, at the end shall be a fool.
You be the judge of your own soul!
The Church is Christ's bride (Ephesians 5:29) and has "no spot, wrinkle or blemish" (Ephesians 5:27).
Absolutely correct! You as a member of the heavenly church as His bride, because He has cleansed you perfect by reason of His shed blood!
Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Christ also stated that the gates of Hell will not prevail against His Church (Matthew 16:18)
The church as you describe it is in the midst of hell (Earth) and the church of which Jesus speaks is not. For it is a spiritual church of which earth hell, can not prevail against it.
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
This world blinds us to God, unless of course we are born into His world then we shall see who and what God is! Think about it.
Aren’t we blessed yet?
so how can the Church commit error? Individual clergy may commit sins, even popes commit sins because in the Church there are both "weeds and wheat" (Matthew 13:30).
Now you are talking sense! Because you are talking of the earthly church, not the heavenly one.
ORGANIZATION - Is the Church to be a loose conglomerate of believers or is it to be organized and structured? For the interim the earthly structure church works, but for the individual, the onus is on the individual to seek the truth. And by seeking out the truth, the Comforter will teach, guide and direct your paths.
If, the Holy Spirit needs you in that position of Priest, then that’s where you will want to work in, but if He leads you away to other paths, as in Martin Luther and others, so be it.
Scripture clearly established "offices" and a "hierarchy" among Christians.
It says “if”: 1Ti 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
The offices of "bishop, priest (presbyter) and deacon" are mentioned in Scripture (1 Timothy 3:1,8; Titus 1:7 ). What else is this but "organization?"
Sometimes Sanctus, you say things that are truth, yet you can not see passed what you say to see the truth you just quoted. Quote: “What else is this but "organization?"
You said it, “it is nothing but and organization period”.
But the heavenly is a heavenly organization.
Just for thought, consider these two numbers. 10 and 12.
Jesus has 12 Apostles which is an earthly organization and God gave the 10 commandments which is heavenly depicting a heavenly organization.
Or should we believe that any believer can "claim" to be a bishop, priest, deacon or even "apostle?"
Decide for yourself after reading this verse: Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
The word "office" is specifically used in Scripture (1 Timothy 3:1) to describe these positions. Webster defines "office" as "A special duty, trust, charge, or position, conferred by authority or God and for a public purpose; a position of trust or authority." And the office of "apostle" is to be continued (Acts 1:20-26) to the present day.
Question: were today’s clergy present from the Baptism of John to the resurrection?
Act 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
“Qualification” was that one had to be ordained who met the standard in the verse above to be truly a witness.
But after the apostles at the day of Pentecost, then the Promised Holy Spirit fell upon all of them equally. Making of them not one above the other.
Which is and was an intended design: of the works of God.
As it is: today.
Not all believers are "equal" nor have the same gifts (1 Corinthians 12:8-10;
True, but they have the self same spirit!
Ephesians 4:11). Is the Church a "visible, earthly" entity? Yes,
Depends on how you define church. But the heavenly church is invisible and rests in the hearts of mankind. Not in physical materially buildings.
for Christ would not direct us to the Church for disputes if it were not here on Earth (Matthew 18:17).
As said before: confess one to another as being the church.
Nor would "fear" encompass the whole Church if it were a mystical, invisible and heavenly entity (Acts 5:11).
If you have Christ as your foundation, what fear is there to fear?
The Church is definitely here on earth for the actions described in Acts definitely take place on earth and the term used is "the whole Church" (Acts 15:22).
Again, you defining the church as an earthly organization, is correct.
But Sanctus, can you see the spiritual messages in the word of God, or can you see only the physical messages that are in the word of God?
HEAD OF THE CHURCH - Is there to be a visible "head" of the Church here on earth?
NO. Christ is the head of the Church period!
Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Heb 8:4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
But Jesus is not according to the law, for Jesus is according to grace.
Well, as I established under the heading of "Organization," not all believers are to have the same authority or equality within the Church. Did the Apostles have the exact same authority amongst themselves. No, they did not. For it was St. Peter alone that was the "rock" upon which Christ established His Church (Matthew 16:18).
Again brother Sanctus, this rock is not a building, but the type of faith that Peter demonstrated, of this kind of faith, Jesus said, I will build my church upon.
Remember, it is a spiritual church and not a physical one? Or else the verse above would not apply to Jesus as being a high priest? Heb 8:4
And it was St. Peter alone that was given the task of "feeding" Christ's sheep (John 21:15-17 ). Scripture clearly points out St. Peter as Christ's representative on earth.
Representative of the qualifications of being a member of the heavenly church which is by Faith! Peter like kind of faith, if you needed an example.
Christ did not ask the other Eleven to feed and tend His sheep. If you read The Acts Of The Apostles, it is clear that St. Peter leads the Apostles. Therefore, since the Apostles are to be replaced as they die (Acts 1:20-26), then it follows that whoever succeed(s) St. Peter is leader of the Church. There is only to be one shepherd of the Church
One Sheppard is correct, that being Jesus of the heavenly church.
Now, if mankind wants to lord over others, then they choose to become lords of the faith over others. But in Christ’s church, there are no lords except Christ who is Lord over all.
(John 10:16). For the Apostles did not argue amongst themselves whether there was a "greatest" at all, but who amongst them was the greatest (Mark 9:34; Luke 9:46).
Does that not ring as humanistic desire? Luk 22:26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.
ONE CHURCH - Is there to be only one Church or many?
Only “one” church and that church being the church of Christ”.
As far as humanity is concerned, there are many.
According to Scripture, Christ wanted us to be one (John 17:22-23).
Absolutely! One in Christ, in His body the church!
We are all as a Church to be of one mind and to think the same (Philippians 2:2;
You quote it, but you don’t believe it Sanctus, for one faith is the faith of Jesus Christ. He is the one who endured till the end, for our sakes.
Romans 15:5). There is only to be one "faith" (Ephesians 4:3-6), not many.
Again you quote correctly, but missing the spiritual message.
For the Church is Christ's Body and Christ only had one Body, not many.
Absolutely? You quote it and yet not see it. What can I say?
Also, since the Church is Christ's Bride (Ephesians 5:29), can Christ be married to more than one wife (essentially a spiritual form of the the sin of polygamy)? No, Christ can only have one wife (i.e., one Church, not many).
The bride my friend is the body of believers as a whole, not many believers as many wives , but a body of believers as one wife. Missing the spiritual message again.
In conclusion, Scripture is pretty straightforward about the Church's role in salvation, Its authority and Its organization. It's all a matter of deductive reasoning, correct interpretation and pure logic.[/quote]
Well as I pointed out all those areas where the word is to be looked at by spiritual eyes, your deductive reasoning, can only lead to human understandings, and not been able to see passed them.
You may argue the authority of the physical church all you want, but the authority of the spiritual church which is Jesus can not be touched with priests, popes, minister, or any supposed clergy. Only the heart of us can touch that authority and He grants that to us to whomever will.
Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
We as members of the church of Christ have the authority to bind (meaning to condemn) on earth and to forgive on earth as heaven will be back us up.
But binding is not recommended, but forgiveness is!
For to bind, means to put under bondage, but to forgive, is to loose up.
Enjoying the chat.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
He who would not take those promises throughout one’s life, at the end shall be a fool.
You be the judge of your own soul!
The Church is Christ's bride (Ephesians 5:29) and has "no spot, wrinkle or blemish" (Ephesians 5:27).
Absolutely correct! You as a member of the heavenly church as His bride, because He has cleansed you perfect by reason of His shed blood!
Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Christ also stated that the gates of Hell will not prevail against His Church (Matthew 16:18)
The church as you describe it is in the midst of hell (Earth) and the church of which Jesus speaks is not. For it is a spiritual church of which earth hell, can not prevail against it.
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
This world blinds us to God, unless of course we are born into His world then we shall see who and what God is! Think about it.
Aren’t we blessed yet?
so how can the Church commit error? Individual clergy may commit sins, even popes commit sins because in the Church there are both "weeds and wheat" (Matthew 13:30).
Now you are talking sense! Because you are talking of the earthly church, not the heavenly one.
ORGANIZATION - Is the Church to be a loose conglomerate of believers or is it to be organized and structured? For the interim the earthly structure church works, but for the individual, the onus is on the individual to seek the truth. And by seeking out the truth, the Comforter will teach, guide and direct your paths.
If, the Holy Spirit needs you in that position of Priest, then that’s where you will want to work in, but if He leads you away to other paths, as in Martin Luther and others, so be it.
Scripture clearly established "offices" and a "hierarchy" among Christians.
It says “if”: 1Ti 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
The offices of "bishop, priest (presbyter) and deacon" are mentioned in Scripture (1 Timothy 3:1,8; Titus 1:7 ). What else is this but "organization?"
Sometimes Sanctus, you say things that are truth, yet you can not see passed what you say to see the truth you just quoted. Quote: “What else is this but "organization?"
You said it, “it is nothing but and organization period”.
But the heavenly is a heavenly organization.
Just for thought, consider these two numbers. 10 and 12.
Jesus has 12 Apostles which is an earthly organization and God gave the 10 commandments which is heavenly depicting a heavenly organization.
Or should we believe that any believer can "claim" to be a bishop, priest, deacon or even "apostle?"
Decide for yourself after reading this verse: Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
The word "office" is specifically used in Scripture (1 Timothy 3:1) to describe these positions. Webster defines "office" as "A special duty, trust, charge, or position, conferred by authority or God and for a public purpose; a position of trust or authority." And the office of "apostle" is to be continued (Acts 1:20-26) to the present day.
Question: were today’s clergy present from the Baptism of John to the resurrection?
Act 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
“Qualification” was that one had to be ordained who met the standard in the verse above to be truly a witness.
But after the apostles at the day of Pentecost, then the Promised Holy Spirit fell upon all of them equally. Making of them not one above the other.
Which is and was an intended design: of the works of God.
As it is: today.
Not all believers are "equal" nor have the same gifts (1 Corinthians 12:8-10;
True, but they have the self same spirit!
Ephesians 4:11). Is the Church a "visible, earthly" entity? Yes,
Depends on how you define church. But the heavenly church is invisible and rests in the hearts of mankind. Not in physical materially buildings.
for Christ would not direct us to the Church for disputes if it were not here on Earth (Matthew 18:17).
As said before: confess one to another as being the church.
Nor would "fear" encompass the whole Church if it were a mystical, invisible and heavenly entity (Acts 5:11).
If you have Christ as your foundation, what fear is there to fear?
The Church is definitely here on earth for the actions described in Acts definitely take place on earth and the term used is "the whole Church" (Acts 15:22).
Again, you defining the church as an earthly organization, is correct.
But Sanctus, can you see the spiritual messages in the word of God, or can you see only the physical messages that are in the word of God?
HEAD OF THE CHURCH - Is there to be a visible "head" of the Church here on earth?
NO. Christ is the head of the Church period!
Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Heb 8:4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
But Jesus is not according to the law, for Jesus is according to grace.
Well, as I established under the heading of "Organization," not all believers are to have the same authority or equality within the Church. Did the Apostles have the exact same authority amongst themselves. No, they did not. For it was St. Peter alone that was the "rock" upon which Christ established His Church (Matthew 16:18).
Again brother Sanctus, this rock is not a building, but the type of faith that Peter demonstrated, of this kind of faith, Jesus said, I will build my church upon.
Remember, it is a spiritual church and not a physical one? Or else the verse above would not apply to Jesus as being a high priest? Heb 8:4
And it was St. Peter alone that was given the task of "feeding" Christ's sheep (John 21:15-17 ). Scripture clearly points out St. Peter as Christ's representative on earth.
Representative of the qualifications of being a member of the heavenly church which is by Faith! Peter like kind of faith, if you needed an example.
Christ did not ask the other Eleven to feed and tend His sheep. If you read The Acts Of The Apostles, it is clear that St. Peter leads the Apostles. Therefore, since the Apostles are to be replaced as they die (Acts 1:20-26), then it follows that whoever succeed(s) St. Peter is leader of the Church. There is only to be one shepherd of the Church
One Sheppard is correct, that being Jesus of the heavenly church.
Now, if mankind wants to lord over others, then they choose to become lords of the faith over others. But in Christ’s church, there are no lords except Christ who is Lord over all.
(John 10:16). For the Apostles did not argue amongst themselves whether there was a "greatest" at all, but who amongst them was the greatest (Mark 9:34; Luke 9:46).
Does that not ring as humanistic desire? Luk 22:26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.
ONE CHURCH - Is there to be only one Church or many?
Only “one” church and that church being the church of Christ”.
As far as humanity is concerned, there are many.
According to Scripture, Christ wanted us to be one (John 17:22-23).
Absolutely! One in Christ, in His body the church!
We are all as a Church to be of one mind and to think the same (Philippians 2:2;
You quote it, but you don’t believe it Sanctus, for one faith is the faith of Jesus Christ. He is the one who endured till the end, for our sakes.
Romans 15:5). There is only to be one "faith" (Ephesians 4:3-6), not many.
Again you quote correctly, but missing the spiritual message.
For the Church is Christ's Body and Christ only had one Body, not many.
Absolutely? You quote it and yet not see it. What can I say?
Also, since the Church is Christ's Bride (Ephesians 5:29), can Christ be married to more than one wife (essentially a spiritual form of the the sin of polygamy)? No, Christ can only have one wife (i.e., one Church, not many).
The bride my friend is the body of believers as a whole, not many believers as many wives , but a body of believers as one wife. Missing the spiritual message again.
In conclusion, Scripture is pretty straightforward about the Church's role in salvation, Its authority and Its organization. It's all a matter of deductive reasoning, correct interpretation and pure logic.[/quote]
Well as I pointed out all those areas where the word is to be looked at by spiritual eyes, your deductive reasoning, can only lead to human understandings, and not been able to see passed them.
You may argue the authority of the physical church all you want, but the authority of the spiritual church which is Jesus can not be touched with priests, popes, minister, or any supposed clergy. Only the heart of us can touch that authority and He grants that to us to whomever will.
Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
We as members of the church of Christ have the authority to bind (meaning to condemn) on earth and to forgive on earth as heaven will be back us up.
But binding is not recommended, but forgiveness is!
For to bind, means to put under bondage, but to forgive, is to loose up.
Enjoying the chat.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
For one who believes not in God, sure likes to quote what is Gods?
Quote" pride goes before the fall"
Let me give you the scripture where that is found: Pro 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
rofl Sad effort at making me look like I'm confused as to what I "believe".
I was unaware of the scripture. I've heard and read the saying many times and never noticed a patent mark or a copyright mark. I also echo JK Galbraith sometime, yet I'm not an architect. I echo McLuhan lots, but I'm not a journalist. I echo Einstein lots, but I'm not a theoretical physicist. People use the term aspirin for any acetylsalicylic acid tablets, but the name "aspirin" is a registered trademark product of Bayer. If I say it's wrong to kill, are you gonna accuse me of being religious because the bible says not to kill? aaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahhahahahahhh
BTW, I'm pretty sure that before people invented your god a couple thousand years ago, they noticed prideful people tripping over their tongues, shooting themselves in the foot, and whatnot, so the idea of it most likely isn't the possession of any god.
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The true church is not made with human hands as in a church building and or an organization. The true church is a heavenly church of which Christ is the head of it.
If you become a member of it, then there are no earthlt churches that can bind you to their practices and beliefs. For Jesus says that in Him you are free.
I put my faith in Jesus Christ as my Lord, and Savior and the bible is the word that He witnessed to being His word from God.
He fulfilled every word and tittle of the bible thereby making it truth, in which we as believers could use for our benefit to learning all about Him.
The bible is my source of knowledge of Him, anf Jesus is the savior of my soul. I am saved to eternal life commencing the day I accepted His teaching.
I therefore stand on the foundation He has laid an none other, be iot the Catholic Church, the Mormon Church or any other.
My faith is sealed by the Holy Spirit of which I am the church. I witness to that effect as I live my life day by day and as I witness by word on this forum.
You too can be the church simply by belieing that Jesus saves you by His shed blood, and that you will be saved as promised by Him.
1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
That you MAY KNOW!
1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Confess, means to proclaim you are a believer in Christ, by the forgiveness of your sins.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Given the POWER to become the SONS of God.
When you become a son, meaning member, of His Kingdom, you have the power of God at your bidding.
Hence: praying one for another?
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
Don't wish ill to any of my brethern, but each must reap what they sow. And that's the heart breaker.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
Gilbert, I don't expect you to understand. At least for the moment. But, I am glad you are reading all this stuff. For it is being recorded into your sub conscience, and all it would take is for the Holy Spirit to trigger a memory recall in you and then all of a sudden, you will confirm all that you hear from Him.
I'm not concerned that you see it now or not at all. For the words of life have been presented many times to you and you have refused them.
So,........God is willing to leave you content where you are.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
look , Perfection or Nothing
Hi, vinod, glad to see your reading this wonderful stuff.
Perfection or nothing seems to be the question about mankinds ultimatium.
What does it take to be perfect? Can you tell? And why perfect?
I mean, perfection in the religious context has to do with sin.
Either we sin or we don't?
What say you?
Peace>>>AJK:love9:
All I know is whom so ever you follow , you should be doing it with heart not just , you may have to do it, I have followed One religion and when I was in that , Now I am christian and now I am giving my 100 % for Jesus.:wave:
I rejoice with you Brother!
Your heart has won the gift of life! You are free in Jesus and nothing can touch that. The world may try, but will not succeed.
Peace>>>AJ:love9: