Mandatory Service.

[LittleRunningGag]

What did I say about paying back a country that grants you liberty and freedom.(leave it alone caracal,lol.)

You don't see a contradiction there?

'... grants you liberty and freedom.'

How kind of it. I could have sworn that the point of liberty and freedom was to be free to do with yourself what you would. I don't remember reading anywhere that that involved state forced labour.

 

[Sassylassie]

In my town we have a very Elite school, private, and it's students are from around the world but all students are required to join a Cadet Program it's not optional and it amazes me when I see the many faces of the Globe on special events parading down town. Their pride in being in Canada glows, it makes me wonder if we should offer these programs in High School? Not forced but optional?

 

[LittleRunningGag]

In my town we have a very Elite school, private, and it's students are from around the world but all students are required to join a Cadet Program it's not optional and it amazes me when I see the many faces of the Globe on special events parading down town. Their pride in being in Canada glows, it makes me wonder if we should offer these programs in High School? Not forced but optional?

We do. Its called Cadets. I had a few friends who were in them. Or do you mean, as a credit course?

 

[Tonington]

I had a Law Enforcement class in High School ,where we did drill, and security, and Paintball!

 

[the caracal kid]

as a society, we make things maditory as a way of shaping its future.

As we become more and more an intelligence/knowledge driven culture, perhaps we should start with manditory learning (in schools)?

 

[Colpy]

as a society, we make things maditory as a way of shaping its future.

As we become more and more an intelligence/knowledge driven culture, perhaps we should start with manditory learning (in schools)?

Hey, I'm with you 100% on this one CK.............

Perhaps you should rethink your position?

 

[sanctus]

I believe that it would stem the tide of violence, sloth, welfarism, un-accountablity and complacency in the youth of today. Thus helping to change Canada's laxadaisical attitude.

Am I wrong or right?

Why would it have to be military service? Why couldn't we focus instead on better social programs to give youth the incentive to succeed?

 

[sanctus]

as a society, we make things maditory as a way of shaping its future.

As we become more and more an intelligence/knowledge driven culture, perhaps we should start with manditory learning (in schools)?

And on that line of thinking, find a way to make University and colleges free from the burden of tuitions for young people. Many countries not as wealthy as Canada realize the value of education for the young and are able somehow to open the Universites to their people without burdening them with tuition costs.

 

[CDNBear]

Why would it have to be military service? Why couldn't we focus instead on better social programs to give youth the incentive to succeed?

Our social safety BLANKET is big enough. "Get to work you lazy bums", should be a federal moto.

 

[CDNBear]

You don't see a contradiction there?

'... grants you liberty and freedom.'

How kind of it. I could have sworn that the point of liberty and freedom was to be free to do with yourself what you would. I don't remember reading anywhere that that involved state forced labour.

Liberty and freedom don not come cheap.

 

[snowles]

Sorry, but as someone under 30, it's a bad idea.

1. It's contradictory to the ideas of freedom and liberty that military service can be assigned.
2. You will set every young person in this country back two years of education and developmental time. If it takes seven years out of high school to become a doctor or a lawyer, these people will be at least 27 before they even begin their careers. Bad thinking in a time of baby boomers and their retirements en masse.
3. There will be far too many objectors and those who refuse to participate to make it a worthwhile program. If you punish these people, you are robbing them of their freedom. If you don't admonish them, you really take the mandatory aspect out of the 'mandatory service'.
4. We're still a peacekeeping nation; what on earth would be need a nation of trained soldiers for? These people would have to be shuffled around the country, housed, fed and trained on taxpayers' money.
5. It opens the door to mandatory drafting, should the need ever arise in a conflict. And because they already have military training, a wartime measures act could send them right to the front lines.
6. If you're concerned about building character, there are lots of voluteer programs that young people can and do get involved in: Air/Army/Navy Cadets, Scouts, Katmavik, Habitats for Humanity, Meals on Wheels, city-run soup kitchens, after-school clubs, church programs, tree planters, hospital visits, summer camp leaders, YMCA/YWCA, and in Ontario, yearly mandatory volunteering in something of their choice, as part of the new curriculum. Don't let your obvious bias towards the military think that it's the only option out there.

as a society, we make things maditory as a way of shaping its future.

As we become more and more an intelligence/knowledge driven culture, perhaps we should start with manditory learning (in schools)?

Uh, we have that. It's called a curriculum and standardized learning. We're already light years behind students from other countries at universities and colleges, how would leaving for two years and doing nothing educational help bridge that gap?

If you are talking about bitchers, about being there. Staff Sgt's have a way of fixing them.

Yes, because that of course shows all those there how much freedom and liberty they are actually fighting for, and why others should owe that to their country. Pretty empty rhetoric.

 

[the caracal kid]

snowles,

I beleive you misinterpreted my comment on manditory learning.

Firstly, I do not support manditory military service. Secondly, I was refering to exactly what you mentioned regarding our children falling behind compared to other countries. Part of the problem with "standardized learning" is that it serves a LCD. Rather than stimulating the gifted, and aiding the challenged, it creates averages which is a sea of mediocrity. (as well as failing students by teaching "exam smarts" rather than thinking skills.)

 

[Tonington]

You nailed that one Caracal. I don't know about the rest of Canada, but in Nova Scotia the Inclusion policy makes it difficult to hold a kid back. They can be pushed along without learning the curriculum. Imagine if they did that in Universities? In fact I've met many students through my studies who did not have a good grasp of many elementary concepts. Can you believe that in my Calculus class, there were students who didn't understand basic algebra? Forget about quadratics, they had problems with linear algebra. Math doesn't have to be as hard as people make it out to be. I can remember in Junior High and High School students asking, "When will I ever need to know this?" or similar questions. If the Math curiculums put more emphasis on recognition of patterns, that would apply to scholastics outside of Mathematics, and is indeed a very useful skill.

 

[snowles]

Fair enough; my bad caracal.

As far as standardized testing goes in Ontario, I think it has done far more harm than good thus far. The program is so flawed in that the materials are sporadic (in order to cover a lot of ground), and the students are missing out on nailing the basics down cold - there simply isn't any time. My wife, who teaches grade six, has to send her kids home everyday with 4 or 5 hours worth of homework, because there is simply too much stuff to do (civics in grade 4, wtf?). These kids are absolutely burnt out by the time they're done high school, and want nothing to do with higher learning. Even those who do are far behind others when they arrive there.

Universities have to realize one thing: the exchange students, on average, are supposed to be smarter. They are selected from a miniscule sample size: those with superior intelligence, and of those who can afford the ridiculous tuition costs to send them to the other side of the globe. There's an exponentially better chance you're going to see student A from Thunder Bay with a 65 average at Lakehead U. then you would see someone with the same credentials from Pakistan; it just wouldn't make sense otherwise.

I've always been a really, really big fan of CEGEP, and was also quite disappointed when they abolished OAC from Ontario schools. The problem lays in that 4 years is too little time for high school, but five years was too much time, and you had attained all the credits necessary.

 

[MikeyDB]

What if it was mandatory to serve our Nation, but voluntary to do active or combat service?

I can agree in principle to the idea but I have to point out that I don't want some whining "conscientious objecter" holding a gun in my name anywhere in the world. If the only reason somone finds him or herself faced with military service in a combat zone is because they're "putting in their time" that's a recipe for disaster.

I want highly trained skilled fighting men and women to represent my nation. Men and women committed to the principles of justice and freedom for all, and voluntarily motivated to fight and if necessary die for those principles.

For too many years the military has been the port of last refuge for many unskilled and unmotivated people unable to find employment somewhere else. This of course isn't true for a great many and I'd hazard a guess in saying that the vast majority of service personnel are there because they've made a decision to serve their country...as their first choice.

It becomes difficult to separate jingoist rhetoric from substantive fact when it comes to finding and declaring which particular conflict or situation is a credible expenditure of lives. I want our military to be guided by intelligent aware individuals not prepared to compromise the principles implicit in standing up for freedom and justice.

I don't want some American wannabe telling our professional soldiers that they have to participate and perhaps give their lives in some hell-hole because General Motors or Exxon or Ratheon Weapons systems needs them to sacrifice their life.

 

[Tonington]

Again Bear said combat would be voluntary. There are other ways that service members can serve our country without combat. Search and rescue and disaster relief, those are valuable services.

 

[MikeyDB]

Tonnington

Great and I agree one hundred percent. If a person of employable age can demonstrate the requisite skills and tenacity to be useful in the role of SAR or disaster relief, I doubt that they'd have difficulty finding employment to pursue that kind of endeavor outside of military service. If however we're limiting our consideration to those who would be required to serve under some mandatory rule, I still don't want someone who's watching the clock until the moment they can get out of the situation to be given much responsibility at all.

When the military was used in Quebec after the ice storm a few years back...they did a great service for their fellow Canadians no doubt about it. The devil's in the details like always....

 

[Tonington]

Or Hurricane Juan, and White Juan here in Nova Scotia. Maybe our Reserves could be revamped, and even that could be the mandatory service. Only qualified volunteer reservists get to go into combat.

 

[selfactivated]

I know Im not a canadian (I think of myself as an island unto myself lol) but as my kids were groing up in Midland Texas there were several programs that might apply to this thread. First in high school they had a program called Junior Air Force Cadets. All three kids volunteered for it. Critter was in 3 years , Candice (my trouble child) was thrown out first year, Jessa was in one year and didnt "reup" The class took the place of PE.

As I said Candice was my trouble child, after I had her arrested for accosting me with a metal folding chair (her second offence on me) They had her painting graffitti'd fences artound town and in anger management classes. None of which worked.

Personally I think certain kids just wont benifit from any program at all while others (like Critter) excel, either way something that drastic should be a choice not mandatory. Critter tried to join after high school but was 20 lbs over weight and bipolar. He couldnt pass the phych. (poor kid took after Mom way to much.)

 

[gopher]

I cannot speak for the situation in Canada but can do so for the USA.

Unfortunately, 'mandatory service' would lead to cozy assignments to the sons and daughters of wealthy elites but to severe hardships for the children of the poor. I live in a ghetto where many people are parents by the time they are 17 or 18 and if they were forced to leave home it would result in very severe hardships to their young children.

The cost to the government in order to implement such a program would be very high and lead to greater demoralization in society. I previously wrote on this forum that back in the early 1970s, I attempted to enlist in the military. But there were some of my youthful colleagues who took drugs in order to avoid the draft. My feeling is that drug addiction would likely increase and that is something that we as a society cannot tolerate.

I suggest that there are better ways to improve our youth. For one thing we need to invest more money in secondary education and to use creative programs that stimulate kids to stay in schools and to improve themselves.

BTW, like Thomaska, I have known career military people who also say that they do not want any malcontents in the service as it would lead to disruption and unneeded troubles.