Who do you trust

[Vereya]

If a person does not officially belong to any religion, it means that he or she is under the forces of nature. To me, it is the next best thing after being Pagan.
And as for trusting, I didn't mean that I positively distrust every christian, or every Muslim that I meet. It is that I am more careful and alert with them, and I wouldn't take them into my confidence as much as I would a Pagan. Only due to the different approaches to life that these religions teach.

 

[china]

Vereya :
If a person does not officially belong to any religion, it means that he or she is under the forces of nature. To me, it is the next best thing after being Pagan.
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Just wondering , ... how can you tell if a person does not belong to any religion or for that matter ...."is under the forces of nature"? For what I know ,Stalin didn't belong to any official religion so I guess he must have bin under the forces of nature , or maybe even a Pagan but he didn't want to confess it to the people.Too bad.....if he would admit it to the masess that he was a pagan or "under the forces of nature" ,I'm sure that he would have more trusting followers. What 's your opinion Vereya ?

 

[ottawabill]

it is the message to be trusted not the messenger....

Look at the old testement, the message is right and true while the players lie cheat steal and are punished, say they are sorry, come arround to God, then start again...People are people!

 

[china]

ottawabill :
it is the message to be trusted not the messenger..
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.. it seams that in case of Stalin ,he was th message and the messenger.

 

[missile]

I have never met anyone in whom I can place absolute trust .. and not even the guy whose face I see in the mirror when shaving.

 

[ottawabill]

I have never met anyone in whom I can place absolute trust .. and not even the guy whose face I see in the mirror when shaving.

maybe you should get some help..i see a really trustworth guy when I shave...or maybe you need a new mirror hahahaha!!

 

[oneeno]

no wonder you cant trust others..
can you love yourself?
if not, do you find you have never found love in others?

 

[Vereya]

Just wondering , ... how can you tell if a person does not belong to any religion or for that matter ...."is under the forces of nature"? For what I know ,Stalin didn't belong to any official religion so I guess he must have bin under the forces of nature , or maybe even a Pagan but he didn't want to confess it to the people.Too bad.....if he would admit it to the masess that he was a pagan or "under the forces of nature" ,I'm sure that he would have more trusting followers. What 's your opinion Vereya ?

China, belonging to a religion means having been ritually introduced into that religion. For instance, if you've been baptized in a christian church, the ritual of baptism places you into the christian religion, within the chistian egregor. And even if later in life you decide that christianity is not for you, you still remain a christian, as long as you do not remove that ritual by means of another one. It is only in case when no religious ceremony of any kind had been performed on a person, when he or she wasn't ritually "placed", so to say, in any religion, only in this case a person is under the forces of nature, protected by the forces that rule this world. And as for Stalin - as you probably know, he was a student of a theological seminary, studying to be a christian priest before he turned to Revolution. So he was a christian.

 

[china]

Vereya
China, belonging to a religion means having been ritually introduced into that religion. For instance, if you've been baptized in a christian church, the ritual of baptism places you into the christian religion, within the chistian egregor. And even if later in life you decide that christianity is not for you, you still remain a christian, as long as you do not remove that ritual by means of another one__________________

China :What you are saying Vereya sounds very much like becoming a member of one of Canadian political parties.You have a choice to become a member of one of them and you can swich to a different one if you like , but in the end you realize that non of them are true.And that goes for your "party"too , Vereya.
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And as for Stalin - as you probably know, he was a student of a theological seminary, studying to be a christian priest before he turned to Revolution. So he was a christian
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That,s a heavy one Vereya .At this point I must say I realy don't know what it means to be a Christian so perhaps you could explain to me what it is to be a Christian using Stalin as an example.
Thank You , China

 

[Vereya]

:What you are saying Vereya sounds very much like becoming a member of one of Canadian political parties.You have a choice to become a member of one of them and you can swich to a different one if you like , but in the end you realize that non of them are true.And that goes for your "party"too , Vereya.

That was an interesting statement, but I am afraid that I didn't quite understand it. What exactly is my "party", in your opinion, and in which way is it not true?

That,s a heavy one Vereya .At this point I must say I realy don't know what it means to be a Christian so perhaps you could explain to me what it is to be a Christian using Stalin as an example.
Thank You , China

As for Stalin, I didn't actually cite him as an example of a christian. I just answered your question, concerning the religion he belonged to, by telling you of a historical fact. By the way, what he actually did when he came to power, was that he removed most of the old-time priests, and a little time later, around the time of World War II, he replaced them with other priests, who were ready to cooperate with the KGB and the authorities. That was done without too much ado, so even now very few people know about it.

To come back to what it means being a christian. It is strange that you should ask me, because you as a christian are supposed to know it much better than me, because I am Pagan. However, for me being a christian means being a slave. it is my personal opinion, though, and I am not trying to impose it on any one. Actually, I am very interested in your ideas on this subject.

 

[china]

Hi Vereya ,By a 'party' I mean a sect ,a group of people that you are a member of.Does a word make so much differencre? To dwell on it would be somewhat childish.

Vereya
China, belonging to a religion means having been ritually introduced into that religion. For instance, if you've been baptized in a christian church, the ritual of baptism places you into the christian religion, within the chistian egregor

China :Yes , I was baptized when I was few weeks old .It was so long ago ,that I cant even "remember".Obviously it wasn't my conscious decision.But even though ,...SO what ?.Does that mean that when I reach the age of maturity and start being aware of I ,of who I am ,but don't denounce "my" baptisim I am lost .That's just a bit more than childish.

 

[Vereya]

Hi Vereya ,By a 'party' I mean a sect ,a group of people that you are a member of.Does a word make so much differencre? To dwell on it would be somewhat childish.

No, it would hardly be childish to attach meaning to words, as words possess a certain meaning in order to facilitate communication. A party means one thing, a sect - quite another. Using a word, the meaning of which differs from what you want to say leads to unnecessary misunderstandings.
And if by saying that I belong to a sect, you mean that I am Pagan, let me set you right. Paganism is not a sect, it is a religion. In fact, it is far more ancient than christianity. The branch of Paganism that I belong to is the genuine and authentic religion of my people and of my ancestors (and of yours, too, by the way, since our peoples are so closely related). Before christianity and Islam squeezed out all the genuine religions, every nation practiced its own kind of Paganism. Would you go as far as to say that until about two thousand years ago the whole of humanity were sectarians?

China :

Yes , I was baptized when I was few weeks old .It was so long ago ,that I cant even "remember".Obviously it wasn't my conscious decision.But even though ,...SO what ?.Does that mean that when I reach the age of maturity and start being aware of I ,of who I am ,but don't denounce "my" baptisim I am lost .That's just a bit more than childish.

Could you please find me the post in which I said that you will be lost, if you don't denounce your baptism? What I said, was: "belonging to a religion means having been ritually introduced into that religion. For instance, if you've been baptized in a christian church, the ritual of baptism places you into the christian religion, within the chistian egregor. And even if later in life you decide that christianity is not for you, you still remain a christian, as long as you do not remove that ritual by means of another one". It was an answer to your question about how to tell if a person belongs to any religion. I will try to explain it once again, in other terms. If you were once introduced into a religion by means of a special ritual, existing in that religion (previously I used the ritual of baptism as an example. Other religions have other "admittance rituals", so to say), you are now a part of that religion. You belong to it. You live within it. Everything that happens in your life, happens according to the rules of your religion. And it just doesn't matter, if that was you conscious decision, or not, if you wanted it to happen, or not. The fact remains - you underwent some ritual that placed you in that particular religion. And even though you do not accept, or do not like, or do not practice that religion after you reach the age of maturity, even though you practice some other religion, you are still a part of the religion that you were ritually introduced to. Did you ever think, why every existing religion has a kind of a ritual, that introduces you into it? Why not just say - okay, from now on I am christian/Muslim/Buddhist/Pagan? A person might get introduced into a religion, and then forget all about it, but he or she will nevertheless remain in that religion. That was what I tried to explain to you in answer to your question. What exactly do you perceive as more than childish? And as for your being or not being "lost" within your religion, that is a question for you to answer, not for me. Everyone chooses the religion that suits him the most.

 

[china]

Vereya : Everyone chooses the religion that suits him the most._______________________________________________

China : Well ,I haven't chosen any religion and I don't have any intentions of doing sbviously your saying ......" Everyone chooses the religion that suits him the most" implies that you are amember of "some kind of religion".
What I have observed ,is that religions are created by people who need someone to do their thinking for them ,by people who need to submit themselfs to an authority.To me folowing any kind of authority implies a denial of my own inteligence and freedom.
Vereya :
If you were once introduced into a religion by means of a special ritual, existing in that religion (previously I used the ritual of baptism as an example.Other religions have other "admittance rituals", so to say), you are now a part of that religion.

China :
Yes ' So do Hell's Angels ,I guess once an angel ,always an angel.
Vereya :
And as for your being or not being "lost" within your religion, that is a question for you to answer, not for me.
China :
I have asked You, if you belive I will be lost if I'm not a member of a religious group wich includes pagans.
If not ,what's the point of belonging to any of them ?.....,except Voodo .

 

[oneeno]

VEREYA - what is your definition of "religion" ?

 

[china]

Perhaps this fits in this thread ,perhaps it doesn't ,but it in any case it won't hurt to read this recipe once in a while ,or ....twice a day.


HOW TO BE PERFECTLY MISERABLE.

1. Think about yourself.
2. Talk about yourself.
3. Use "I" as often as possible.
4. Mirror yourself continually in the opinion of others.
5. Listen greedily to what people say about you.
6. Expect to be appreciated.
7. Be suspicious.
8. Be jealous and envious.
9. Be sensitive to slights.
10. Never forgive a criticism
11. Trust no one but yourself.
12. Insist on consideration and respect.
13. Demand agreement with your own views on everything.
14. Sulk if people are not grateful to you for favors shown them.
15. Never forget a service you may have rendered.
16. Be on the lookout for a good time for yourself.
17. Shirk your duties if you can.
18. Do as little as possible for others.
19. Love yourself supremely.
20. Be selfish.

This recipe is guaranteed to be infallible.....for all which includes pagans.

-- Gospel Herald.

 

[Vereya]

VEREYA - what is your definition of "religion" ?

Oneeno, it was a very good question, and I will try to give as good an answer.
First of all, I would like to say that for me religion is a very important thing. I do not treat it like something speculative or like some remote philosophical notion. I have had ample opportunities to observe people of different religions, I have changed my religion at one point in my life, and I really did see the way it influenced my whole life, and I was able to draw one conclusion, that is actually based upon facts - religion is a very powerful force, that influences every area of a person's life, despite the fact whether that person realizes that or not.
As for my definition of religion it is as follows - religion is a set of spiritual beliefs that you ACTIVELY practice in your life. The set of beliefs, characteristic of any given religion is shaped by the Deity, or Deities, worshipped in that religion. In any religion a Deity is a kind of immaculate personality, who sets down certain rules, that are in accordance with the kind of a personality the Deity is. Therefore, the ultimate goal of any religion is to reflect in your personality the personality of your Deity, as much as you possibly can, being human. On a more mundane level, a religion, your religion, the essence of your religion, is the guiding principle of your life, some kind of criterion, that helps you to make the right choices. And I also firmly believe that in this world religion exists in order to help people develop and grow.
I hope I have answered you question, and I hope I didn't make my answer sound too general.

 

[Kreskin]

Perhaps this fits in this thread ,perhaps it doesn't ,but it in any case it won't hurt to read this recipe once in a while ,or ....twice a day.


HOW TO BE PERFECTLY MISERABLE.

1. Think about yourself.
2. Talk about yourself.
3. Use "I" as often as possible.
4. Mirror yourself continually in the opinion of others.
5. Listen greedily to what people say about you.
6. Expect to be appreciated.
7. Be suspicious.
8. Be jealous and envious.
9. Be sensitive to slights.
10. Never forgive a criticism
11. Trust no one but yourself.
12. Insist on consideration and respect.
13. Demand agreement with your own views on everything.
14. Sulk if people are not grateful to you for favors shown them.
15. Never forget a service you may have rendered.
16. Be on the lookout for a good time for yourself.
17. Shirk your duties if you can.
18. Do as little as possible for others.
19. Love yourself supremely.
20. Be selfish.

This recipe is guaranteed to be infallible.....for all which includes pagans.

-- Gospel Herald.

Sounds like the Christian right playbook.

 

[Curiosity]

China

Loved your Recipe! It's very accurate.

 

[Hotshot]

I trust people on an individual basis. In the absence of anything else, I give everyone the benefit of the doubt. But if I get a bad vibe or anything, I listen to it. Your religion, or lack thereof, has no bearing on whether or not you are trustworthy, despite what some might claim.

Right on!

 

[Vereya]

Dear China, I would be very much obliged to you if you read my posts, before arguing them with me. Not asking one and the same thing over and over againg, and not having to say one and the same thing over and over again, will save a lot of our time.

I have asked You, if you belive I will be lost if I'm not a member of a religious group wich includes pagans.
If not ,what's the point of belonging to any of them ?.....,except Voodo .

Several posts ago I said the following: If a person does not officially belong to any religion, it means that he or she is under the forces of nature. To me, it is the next best thing after being Pagan. You even quoted these words in one of your own posts. Why then ask the same question again?
And I should say that I don't understand your attitude, China. Though you keep replying to my posts, you never answered a single question I asked you. All you do, is misinterpret my words, ascribe to me things I never said, and imply that there is something very wrong with my beliefs and principles, without confirming it with facts. Does that sound like constructive dialogue to you? It doesn't, to me. It seems to me that you either do not understand what I am saying, or else you are trying to pick a fight. If you do, why don't you choose a man to fight with, why do you fight with a woman?
Another thing. What I am going to say might sound too personal, but your attitude has forced me to say it. It appears from your posts that someone's having firm principles and beliefs irritates you. Well, it is your problem that at your time of life you have probably discovered that all you have held true isn't so. I have beliefs and convictions, and I am willing to discuss them with anyone, but I really mean discuss. And discussion is not something when you say - it is bad, because I say so. Give me facts, and prove to me where I am wrong, or stop saying that I am wrong.
And as for the recipe for being miserable, if you meant it for me, than you can keep it. I don't feel the need to be miserable, and what is written there has nothing to do with me.