Darwin Must Be Taught in Quebec Schools

Curiosity

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http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=c5715990-a9eb-45f2-9c66-26d3ea3c56fa&k=4546

Evangelical schools ordered to teach Darwin
Quebec crackdown

David Rogers; with files from Joanne LauciusNational Post; CanWest News Service
Tuesday, October 24, 2006

OTTAWA - The Quebec Ministry of Education has told unlicensed Christian evangelical schools that they must teach Darwin's theory of evolution and sex education or close their doors after a school board in the Outaouais region complained the provincial curriculum was not being followed.
"Quebec children are legally required to follow the provincial curriculum ... but these evangelical schools teach their own courses on creationism and sexuality that don't follow the Quebec curriculum," said Pierre Daoust, director-general of the Commission Scolaire au Coeur-des-Vallees in Thurso, Que.
Mr. Daoust's complaint sparked the province-wide investigation.
Quebec law requires school boards to assure the Ministry of Education that every child between the ages six of and 16, with the exception of home-schooled children, receives an adequate education, he said.
But the 20 elementary and high school students who attend a school operated by Eglise Evangelique near Saint-Andre-Avellin, Que., are being educated according to a Bible-based curriculum and their high school diplomas will not be recognized anywhere in Canada, he said.
Supporters of Eglise Evangelique, part of the l'Association des eglises evangeliques du Quebec, counter that the school teaches a "world view" that is essential for their students.
"We offer a curriculum based on a Christian world view rather than humanistic world view," said Alan Buchanan, chairman of a committee that reorganized the school's administration this past summer, as well as a former Quebec public school teacher.
Mr. Buchanan said Eglise Evangelique teaches evolution as well as intelligent design.
"We want the children to understand what they're going to meet in the outside world, and also what's wrong with the theory," he said. "We also teach that a better theory -- that God created the universe and so on."
While the school doesn't teach sex education, it does teach biology, he said.
"You have the Christian world view that says sex should only be in the marriage and a public school system that teaches kids about sexuality," Mr. Buchanan said. "We believe students should be taught abstinence."
He said the school met provincial guidelines during two reviews conducted in the 1990s, although they were asked to add a Canadian history course.
Ministry spokeswoman Marie-France Boulay said yesterday the province will negotiate for several weeks with an unspecified number of evangelical schools to determine whether they can meet provincial standards that include the teaching of Darwin's theory of evolution.
Ms. Boulay said two or three unlicensed evangelical schools in the Outaouais are affected.
In addition to the 20 students at Eglise Evangelique, another 40 students attend an unlicensed evangelical school in Gatineau, Que., which falls under the jurisdiction of the Commission Scolaire des Draveurs. There is a third in Hull, Que., Mr. Daoust said. The other school boards haven't complained.
The Quebec government knows of about 30 unlicensed religious schools in the province, including Hasidic schools and several evangelical Christian schools in Montreal, said Dermod Travis, who served on Quebec's Comite sur la langue d'enseignement, a tribunal that hears special cases from the province's educational system.
Other religious denominations may operate faith-based schools as well, but no one really knows where they are.
The Quebec government has known about unaccredited religion-based schools for years, but has tolerated them for fear of offending the denominations sponsoring them.
Members of the Pentecostal Eglise Nouvelle Alliance in Gatineau, which operates a school for about 40 students, refused to discuss the Ministry of Education investigation because their minister, Charles Boucher, is out of Canada until Nov. 1.
Ontario schools are not required to teach either evolution or sex education, said Elaine Hopkins, executive director of the 900-member Ontario Federation of Independent Schools, which has 120,000 children attending schools with a few as 10 students and as many as 1,000.
Many parents send their children to independent schools because they object to the teaching of certain subjects in the public schools, she said. "These are issues that should be decided by the parents, not the province."
At the elementary level in Ontario, there are no curriculum requirements for independent schools at all, although Ms. Hopkins points out that the industry is market-driven.
"It's called direct accountability to the parents," she said. "If you're not going to teach reading, writing and arithmetic, the parents aren't going to pay for it."
At the high school level in Ontario, independent schools are inspected by Ministry of Education officials to ensure that they meet curriculum and hours-of-instruction guidelines for credits to be accepted by the ministry.
 

ottawabill

Electoral Member
May 27, 2005
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Sounds a bit like the Nazi's does it not!!

The reason people send their kids to other schools or home school is because they don't agree with the public education system.

But Quebec has always been a big brother government, they alway know best..Thats why they are such a great nation right?
 

EastSideScotian

Stuck in Ontario...bah
Jun 9, 2006
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Thats pretty sweet, I cant wait for them to become a nation....

Then they can get their own mini Quebec or maybe a bunch....the English andthe Natives could start to bitch about Education, and Language rights......and then they could start to see some Sepretist movements in their own Country.

But anyway back on topic.... Bill your right on, a Christain Family will send htem to a Christain Church, so their kids will learn what the Parents deam appropriate, not the government. Evryone has the right to education, and oddly enough to right to choose....so shouldnt they get to choose what type of education they get?
 

hermanntrude

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jun 23, 2006
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too bloody right it should be taught. In my view almost nothing can be taught as absolute fact, but merely presented as the best knowledge of today. Darwin gave us the most believable theory so far as to how the diversity of life on the planet became so large. Religion should not come into education in my view, but if it must then at least teach people what the rest of the world believes too, let children decide for themselves rather than brainwashing them by teaching them stuff as if there were no alternative
 

ottawabill

Electoral Member
May 27, 2005
909
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so if I say the Conservative party is the naturally governing party of Canada,that should be taught in school and any talk of other parties should be banned??

I am Christian but don't take the Bible literally, for me there is every reason why we may come from Ape's. God could have had that plan from the begining, but to force an issue on all members of society is wrong!!
 

DurkaDurka

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Mar 15, 2006
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Religion should not be an exception to what is taught in school curriculum. If they want to learn about "creationism", learn it in a church.
 

DurkaDurka

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Regardless of them being "church schools", that doesn't give them the right to bypass the provincial school curriculum. If they want their diplomas to be recognized by the government, teach what is supposed to be taught, none of this creationism BS.
 

Curiosity

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YooHoo Hermann !!!

Welcome back - I see you made it to your destination - I hope you have a snowshovel already purchased...
and chains! lol
 

ottawabill

Electoral Member
May 27, 2005
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Public schools are not allowed to do the Lord's prayer or teach about Jesus so should the Church schools not be allowed to do that either?

To me this is the Quebec population alway trying to distance itself from the Catholic church which once ran the show in Quebec. Other provinces, and states for that mater, are secure enough to leave it alone.
 

hermanntrude

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jun 23, 2006
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teach real-world things in schools and teach religion at home and in churches/mosques/temples/other holy places. Children accept most of what they get taught at school at fact. We cannot be sure of any of the things we know but we can be a lot surer of pythagoras's theorem than we can of the story of Noah's flood for instance. that's why i'd separate them.

As for whether darwin's theory of evolution is believable, i expect we've covered that in a bazillion other threads but my two pence is that it seems very believable and although i admit it leaves some questions and cannot be fully proven, I am pretty sure i'm an ape.
 

ottawabill

Electoral Member
May 27, 2005
909
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Eastern Ontario
teach real-world things in schools and teach religion at home and in churches/mosques/temples/other holy places. Children accept most of what they get taught at school at fact. We cannot be sure of any of the things we know but we can be a lot surer of pythagoras's theorem than we can of the story of Noah's flood for instance. that's why i'd separate them.

As for whether darwin's theory of evolution is believable, i expect we've covered that in a bazillion other threads but my two pence is that it seems very believable and although i admit it leaves some questions and cannot be fully proven, I am pretty sure i'm an ape.


Yes except that you are mixing up the topic...what is decreed is that the public school darwin theory must be taught in private religious schools...which in many ways is leaving it in the church, except someone has come into the church and said NO you can't do that.
 

Dexter Sinister

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Oct 1, 2004
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Seems perfectly reasonable to me, really. The province has to maintain educational standards, Darwinism is part of any well-rounded science curriculum, same as Newton's laws of motion and the atomic theory of matter, and it's as much a fact as those two are.

And just as an aside, we're not descended from apes. We have a common ancestor with apes, and a good case can be made that we're just another kind of ape ourselves, but we didn't evolve from them.
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
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governements always have dictated what can and can not be taught to their upcoming minions. Proper programming is paramount!

Lets see about this specific case: science is a reality in the current society (science drives its inovations, its industries, our understandings). Quebec wants to have a competative economy, which means their upcoming minions must be knowledgable to the same extent as other minions. If church schools want to teach their creation mythology in "sunday school" all the power to them, but the goverment has an obligation to its next generation to ensure they are not left behind. If and when "creationism" can actually build a body of evidence to support its hypotheses then they can request to be presented as an alternative to evolution. Until then, it can be told along side the easter bunny and the tooth fairy.
 

ottawabill

Electoral Member
May 27, 2005
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separation of church and state laws were put in to keep Government out of the Church..not the other way around that so many believe.

quoting from sources

"In the United States, separation of church and state is sometimes believed to be in the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution and by legal precedents interpreting that clause, some being extremely controversial. The Establishment Clause states that, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

I know this is Canada and no the U.S. but we use the same separation...just remember who is the chicken and who is the egg
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
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Religions have had their run of "exclusive status". It is far past time for that to come to an end.

Try applying this cop-out to any other scenario to see how reduculous it is.

And people don't believe we are still living in the dark ages!
 

ottawabill

Electoral Member
May 27, 2005
909
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Eastern Ontario
who's asking for exclusive statue??

No one is looking at the public system to adopt anything, rather this is a group of indivuals who believe something different then what is normally taught so they setup their own school separate from the public, then they are told they have to follow the public system anyways. Well if thats the case then should not the public system teach secular and religious notions to include all.

Our general political correctiveness always calls for a mushy middle ground ,don't offend anyone..except groups that can take it. Like Christians.

It is a belief system and thats it. Because I believe in Jesus and God does not make me a southern rightwing t.v. evangelist no matter who much an easy slot that would be to try and stick me into it.

I not even saying the all this Adam and Eve stuff is the way it started...I think it was a good story for people at the time, but someone shouldnot be told that it's my way or the highway..funny thats it only the 1984 Quebec style of government that would be doing this....It's not called for in other Provinces..atleast under home schooling policies.
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
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I am not saying these private schools are not free to teach one or all of the creation myths if they want to.

I am saying that it is fair for the government to set a miminum standard cirriculum for all schools to follow, and that if these private schools wish to go beyond that cirriculum they are free to. They must meet the standards defined by the state in order to be a school though. To allow any private school to arbitrarily throw out cirriculum for "personal belief reasons" is rediculous. How would you feel about a doomsday school that is based on a "personal belief" that the world will end within our lifetime, so the curriculum should be survival based (thus no need for topics such as literature or mathematics)?

Religions are a personal nature and belong in the home (or as an addendum to the required coursework in these private schools). The study of religions should not be undertaken en mass until children reach an age where they are capable of understanding the topics (intertwining philosophy, history, ect). I agree that everybody should study the world's religions (as constructs, not as a faith).

Christianity is dwindling, slowly dieing, and this is why we tend to see such strong defensive stances from christians compared to when christianity was "the norm" and it was the non-christians persecuted for their position. When you talk of christians "taking it", don't forget this is a new concept.