The Next Islamophobic Hate Thread

[Chukcha]

Yeah somebody needs help -- anybody who succumbs to the destructive Hitlerian pattern of lies, stereotypes, warism, and hatred. Big help.

And those who follow the terroristic ideas are ok, yes? Tell me, how do you see Hitler much different to Osama bin Laden

 

[thomaska]

Instead of personally debunking all the above BS posted by anti-Muslim bigots, I will reference a web posting which already does this:

Muslims and the 5 Questions

Somebody named Dennis Prager wrote a frankly bigotted op-ed for the LA Times asking "Muslims" 5 questions. The questions are fairly easy to answer in themselves, but the stupidity of the whole framework is what is objectionable. Why is it that our media personalities cannot think their way out of a paper bag? Why don't high school civics courses alert them that there might be a problem with stereotyping everyone that you categorize as belonging to a particular group?

Prager begins his "questions" directed, apparently at all 1.3 billion Muslims in the world, by referring to the recent riots in France. He is thus framing his questions with the implication that those Muslims are all trouble-makers and have something to answer for. But the alienated in-between young African- and North African-French are mostly not very involved in religion and a lot of them couldn't tell you how to pray to save their lives.

Prager's first question is why "Muslims" are so "quiet" (implied is: "about terrorism emanating from other Muslims"). Of course, Muslims have been anything but quiet about terrorism and all sorts of Muslim leaders and groups have repeatedly condemned it. Muslims haven't been "quiet." Prager hasn't been listening.

Moreover, the mere assertion that an act was done in the "name of Islam" would not necessarily connect it to Islam in the eyes of other Muslims. All kinds of crazy things are done in the name of Judaism and Christianity and Buddhism. Why didn't the American Buddhists demonstrate when Aum Shinrikyo let Sarin gas loose in the Tokyo subway? Did American Catholics demonstrate against Franco's policies in Spain? Why should American Catholics even feel responsible for those things? Why should Indonesian or Bangladeshi Muslims demonstrate about something that happened in distant Jordan, which had some local context they don't even understand? People who are actually Muslims don't take seriously small groups of cranks who do bizarre things in the name of Islam.

And let's turn the tables on Prager. Let's ask why he is so quiet.



The above sentence is where this article stopped sounding as good as I thought it was, and became the same old blame game arguement. But I can see the point he's trying to make.

 

[earth_as_one]

I think its a legitimate question. How can you be selectively outraged by atrocities, depending on which group commits them? Its not a blame game but pointing out the hypocrisy.

Hopefully you will read on as the author debunks many common misperceptions about Islam.

 

[northstar]

of all the posts here, the most discriminatory bigot l have seen is you earth, you are full of the BS you are constantly accusing everyone else of. You are against the freedoms and rights of everyone except the Jihad Muslim. In fact, you are a Jihad Muslim.

 

[northstar]

A intolerant discriminatory Jihad Muslim in fact...

 

[Jay]

http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/Mansur_Salim/2006/09/30/1923945.html

I'm sorry ...... for the terrible crimes committed by Muslims


In a recent column, Michael Coren, my colleague here at the Sun, demanded Muslims apologize for wrongs too numerous to list.
Coren is right. I, as a Muslim, apologize without equivocation or reservation for the terrible crimes -- small and big -- committed by Muslims against non-Muslims and against Muslims, as in Darfur, who are weak and easy prey to those who hold power in the name of Islam.
I imagine, however, Coren is not seeking an apology from a person of Muslim faith such as I, who maintains no rank and cannot speak on behalf of the institutionalized world of Islam.
Like many others who share his frustration and legitimate anger, Coren is asking to hear a contrite voice from within institutionalized Islam -- to repent for Muslim misconduct, past and present, that is indefensible by any standard of civility and decency, and seek forgiveness.
But Coren and others might well wait indefinitely for such an apology from those representatives of institutionalized Islam convinced of their own righteousness, even as they are engineers of a civilization's wreckage and prosper in it by the art of bullying.
Muslims and non-Muslims often point to the fact there is no Vatican in contemporary Islam -- no figure like the Pope or the Archbishop of Canterbury who authoritatively represents the Muslim world.
This is only partly true, for the lack of a Pope-like figure among Muslims does not mean an absence of an institutionalized setting operative in the Muslim world.
From the earliest years of post-Prophetic Islam, Muslims holding the power of the sword and what constitutes the authoritative meaning of the Koran and the prophet's traditions, have rigged the boundaries of institutionalized Islam. The wielders of the sword and interpreters of faith have worked in tandem to impose their consensus on all Muslims, and those who have questioned their authority have paid a steep price.
This institutionalized reality of Islam and its resulting complexity are not well understood by non-Muslims. Institutionalized Islam is represented by Muslim majority states and their political and religious leaders who share a consensus on matters of politics and faith.
Below institutionalized Islam's scrutiny exists a vast unaccounted number of Muslims who seek anonymity to escape the coercive notice of authorities in mosques and in presidential or monarchical palaces. Their voices, were they heard, would be rudely dismissed as heretical.
From its beginnings, institutionalized Islam's representatives hollowed out the spiritual content of Islam in the service of political expediency. The inevitable followed -- politics dressed in the robes of religion.
The faces of institutionalized Islam -- political leaders such as Egypt's Hosni Mubarak or religious leaders such as Lebanon's Hasan Nasrallah -- are revealing of what politics have done to faith.
Within the Arab Sunni world the Egyptian-born Sheikh Qaradawi, 80, of Qatar, is the face of institutionalized Islam. He is the closest to what might pass for a titular head of Muslims akin to the Pope. Qaradawi's words, now broadcast by television network al-Jazeerah, are taken as authoritative pronouncements of Islam. He is the "spiritual" leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, a movement formed to repudiate freedom and democracy, and a defender of Islam's war against the West by any means, including suicide bombings.
For such representatives of institutionalized Islam, all things are political. They are the authoritative guardians of the ideology that in Islam religion and politics are inseparable, and jihad -- holy war -- is its defining aspect.
Hence, since this institutionalized Islam is at war with the West, for Coren or anyone else to expect an apology from its generals is rather naive.

 

[Sassylassie]

Earth as one wrote: Hopefully you will read on as the author debunks many common misperceptions about Islam.

Quote from Earth's Article: People who are actually Muslims don't take seriously small groups of cranks who do bizarre things in the name of Islam.

You must be kidding, Global Terror is taking place in the Name of Islam and you post article that says "People who are actually Muslims don't take seriously small groups of cranks who do bizarre things in the name of Islam."

"A few little incidents". Earth read Global newspapers, it's an ugly life for those who live under Muslim Oppression. Look at Somalia, Arab Extremists from the Sudan have envaded this country and it's soldiers are killing Moderate Muslims and Christians. I don't consider murder, raping women and children to be "Bizarre Things" call it what it is murder and rape. Where's the worlds outrage over Sudan's illegal occupation of Somalia??????????????????????????????????? What are the Somalies not as important as the Iragies? I mean where are the peace protesters? Where are the news articles? Nothing but silence on the slaughter of Muslims and Christians in Somalia.

Good Article Jay.

 

[earth_as_one]

If someone starts a string on these conflicts I will comment on them.

Just because someone claims they commit crimes in the name of Islam, doesn't mean that the majority of Muslims support that person or their crimes.

Also just because statements made by Muslims denouncing attacks on civilians don't make the news, doesn't mean Muslims were silent.


Muslim Leaders
American Muslim Leaders Condemn Attacks
American Muslims and Scholars Denounce Terrorism on Anniversary of 9/11
Australian Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attack
Bin Laden Distorts Islam, Islamic Scholars Say
Bin Laden's Idea of 'Jihad' is Out of Bounds, Islamic Scholars Say
British Muslim leaders condemn terrorism
British Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks
Canadian Muslims Condemn Terorist Attacks
Islamic Statements Against Terrorism in the Wake of the September 11 Mass Murders
Islamic World Deplores U.S. Losses
Looking for Answers in Islam's Holy Book: What Islamic Scholars Have to Say
Muslim Reactions to Sept 11
Muslim World Condemns Attacks on U.S.
Muslim rulers condemn WTC attacks
New Zealand Muslims Condemn Terrorism
Organization of the Islamic Conference Foreign Ministers Condemn International Terrorism
Quran a Book of Peace Not War, Islamic Scholars Say
Scholars of Islam Condemn Terrorism
Some American Muslims Take a Look at Their Communities' Shortcomings
U.S. Muslim Scholars Condemn Attacks
UK Muslim Leaders Condemn 'Lunatic Fringe'
When is jihad OK? Muslim Perspectives

Specific Muslim Scholars
Attacks on Civilians: Forbidden by Islam, by Shaykh Yusuf Qaradawi
Ayatollah Muhammad Husain Fadlallah of Lebanon condemns Osama Bin Laden, by Ayatollah Muhammad Husain Fadlallah
Bin Laden's Violence is a Heresy Against Islam, by AbdulHakim Murad (Tim Winter)
Defending the Civilians (a fatwa against terrorism), by Shaykh Muhammad Afifi al-Akiti
Expert Says Islam Prohibits Violence Against Innocents, by Shaykh Hamza Yusuf
Grand Sheikh of al-Azhar Condemns Suicide Bombings, by Shaykh Muhammad Sayyed Tantawi
High Mufti of Russian Muslims calls for Extradition of Bin Laden, by Russian Muslim leaders
Iran's Supreme Leader Condemns Attacks on U.S., by Ayatollah Ali Khamanei
Islam and the Question of Violence, by Seyyed Hossein Nasr, Iranian scholar
Jihad and the Modern World, by Dr. Sherman Jackson
Jihad: Its True Meaning and Purpose, by Muzammil H. Siddiqui
Most Prominent Sunni Muslim Scholar Condemns Killing of Civilians, by Shaykh Muhammad Sayyed Tantawi, Grand Imam of Al-Azhar University
Muslim Attitudes about Violence, by Shaykh Muhammad al-Munajjid
On the Terrorist Attacks, by Imam Zaid Shakir
Prominent Pakistani Cleric Tahir ul Qadri condemns Bin Laden, by Tahir ul Qadri
Reclaiming Islam from the Terrorists, by AbdulHakim Murad, British scholar
Reflections on the National Horror of September 11, 2001, by Muzammil H. Siddiqui
Refutation of Bin Laden's Defense of Terrorism, by Moiz Amjad, Pakistani scholar
Response to a Question about Islam and Terrorism, by Moiz Amjad, Pakistani scholar
Saudi Clerics Condemn Terrorism, by Sheikh Abderrahman al-Sudayes
Saudi Grand Mufti Condemns Terrorist Attacks in U.S., by Shaikh Abdulaziz Al-Ashaikh
Scholars' Statements Regarding The Attacks In The United States, by Shaykh Abdul-Aziz Aali-Shaykh, Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia and President of the Committee of Senior Scholars, and Shaykh Saleh Al-Lehaydaan, Chief Justice Of The Saudi Arabian Judiciary, and Shaykh Dr. Saaleh Ibn Ghaanem As-Sadlaan, Pres. Higher Studies Dept. Al-Imaam Muhammd Ibn Saud Islamic University
Spanish Muslim Clerical authorities Issue Fatwa against Osamah Bin Laden, by Spanish Muslim leaders
Terrorism Is at Odds With Islamic Tradition, by Khaled Abou El Fadl
Terrorism: Not a doorway to heaven, by Jamil Abdul Razzak Hajoo, of Idriss Mosque, Seattle
The Myth of Islamic Terrorism Exploded, by Shaykh Abdul Azeez bin Abdullah bin Baaz and Shaykh Muhammad Bin Saalih al Uthaymeen
The worst enemies of Islam are from within, by Hamza Yusuf
Top Saudi Cleric Says Attacks on U.S. a Terrible Crime in Islam, by Shaykh Salah al-Lahidan, head of the Islamic Judiciary of Saudi Arabia
Violence Against Innocents Violates Islamic Law, by Imam Siraj Wahhaj
What is jihad? What is terrorism?, by Statement by Muslim scholars

 

[earth_as_one]

This website also:

http://groups.colgate.edu/aarislam/response.htm

 

[northstar]

Well written Joy,

and l think that asking for apologies from centuries ago is pointless, since our world was fought over for a number of reasons and basically we rest on a bloody foundation.

Our humanity and the struggle is a shared history, and l think that to point fingers and demand apologies now is just adding friction.

The Pope only represents a portion of the religion that make up the multi-culturalism of the western world, so to ask for any apology form the crusades is pointless, and yet it was done, and l disagree with us being blamed by a conflict that had two players and l can completely sympathise with both sides, but mainly l can see the Christain side as being the one needing an apology.

I understand that there is really no one who can represent the Muslim community, as it is a completely different structure than what we are familiar with.

The current problem is that the Muslims that have immigrated to the western world or are a few generations here, are either fitting in nicely, or they are actively rioting, pushing the lessons of the Jihad, and sometimes being guilty bystanders rather than supporting our life style of freedom and democracy.

I enjoy the multiculturalism of our country and learning about the different faiths the different cultures, and enjoying in the richness of the experience. What bothers me is when our school system is being challenged by demands such as teachers of the Muslim faith wearing burkas and veils and masks to teach our children.

This is imposing a belief on others. You don't see Jehovah witnesses apporaching our schools, you don't see born-again christians imposing there beliefs on our children. You don't see Klu-Klux Klan members hiding there faces in shopping malls.

The videos l have submitted are a question, of how does this work with our society. I applaud those Muslims' who reported the threats made against them, and for those Muslims that are working within the very tolerant and democratic framework of our society and are not actively supporting the Jihad Muslims.
However, an example of being guilty bystanders is by not robustly denouncing terrorists, and by not robustly supporting the protective measures of our countries hold on peace and freedom.

An example is the Pope's speech. I have yet to see any Muslim read the entire speech and then go to his/her community and tell them of it's true intent and it's true message. l see rioting, burning effigies and murdering an old lady who was carring for sick children, l see demonstrations and complaint. But no where do l see that Muslims' recognize freedom of speech, and that even if the Pope criticized the Muslim, he can say this, he is entitled to his opinion.

However, he didn't, he tried to find something to inspire people, and he came back with one single quote from a revered emperor, that basically the law of Islam was not about violence. And with that was an opportunity for Muslims that had chosen to be part of the Western World, to chose a way of peace and dignity.

The reaction was violence and contempt.

When the Pope apologized, more contempt and further demands to appease the Muslim sensitivity.

This is one example of how the Muslims are continuing to show the Western world that they want special treatment, and basically are challenging our rights and freedom by showing discrimination. For example it is discrimination and against our social values to impair our children rights to schooling. How does a teacher, who is placed in a postion of trust, justify hiding her face in front of the little boys. That is gender discrimination, and it is religious discrimination, and it is intolerance for a social system that is in place to benefit everyone.

It is discrimination and anti-Western Society to publish teachings, such as l have provided here, and have them as part of the Mosques teachings for women who are muslim, or who are married to a Muslin, in order for them to learn that it is okay to allow abuse that we criminalize, because the scriptures support this. It is not okay within our society, and these Muslim teachings are against the rights and freedoms of our society.

So l would greatly appreciate your feedback on these issues l have raised.

 

[northstar]

EARTHGRUB,

Instead of filling up your posts with other people's work why can't you take your links and start your own thread...

You basically are not contributing, except ushering threats to try to curtail freedom of speach, you are a good little Jihad...

 

[northstar]

You must be kidding, Global Terror is taking place in the Name of Islam and you post article that says "People who are actually Muslims don't take seriously small groups of cranks who do bizarre things in the name of Islam."

"A few little incidents". Earth read Global newspapers, it's an ugly life for those who live under Muslim Oppression. Look at Somalia, Arab Extremists from the Sudan have envaded this country and it's soldiers are killing Moderate Muslims and Christians. I don't consider murder, raping women and children to be "Bizarre Things" call it what it is murder and rape. Where's the worlds outrage over Sudan's illegal occupation of Somalia??????????????????????????????????? What are the Somalies not as important as the Iragies? I mean where are the peace protesters? Where are the news articles? Nothing but silence on the slaughter of Muslims and Christians in Somalia.

Well said SASSYLASSIE but Earth is into supporting the Jihad Muslims' and has confessed to this in another thread.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Islamic Extremists view women lower than dogs as the Taliban did when they ruled Afghanistan executing women in public. So Gohper has taken it upon himself to defend Islamic Extremists and their treatment of women, Pwned!!

 

[earth_as_one]

Well said SASSYLASSIE but Earth is into supporting the Jihad Muslims' and has confessed to this in another thread.

I'd like to see that quote. If you can't find it (and you won't because I have written no such thing), then the decent thing to do would be to apologize for your personal attacks on me which are not only against the rules on this forum, but also libel.

Canadian Defamation Law

The common law protects every person from harm to their reputation by false and derogatory remarks about their person, known as defamation. In addition, all Canadian provinces have libel/ slander legislation (defamation includes slander and libel, where slander is verbal defamation and libel is printed defamation).

 

[DurkaDurka]

I'd like to see that quote. If you can't find it (and you won't because I have said no such thing), then the decent thing to do would be to apologize for your personal attacks on me which are not only against the rules on this forum, but also libel.

HAHA, internet forum defamation. Is he ruining your Internet Persona? Is he causing distress to your good "nickname".

That was close to being the funniest forum post i have ever seen.

 

[Logic 7]

Oh logic here is your proof of what Happens to a Muslim who happens to find Christianity: Now don't skip over it like you did with Tamaska's post on other Christians being slaughtered in the name of Allah. Just incase you are have trouble understanding the article here's a recap. A Muslim converts to Christianity and the Muslims want him beheaded but he gets away and flees to Italy- well these same Radical Pigs kidnap someone and threaten to kill him if Italy doesn't return the Muslim Convert. Are ya keeping up well they want the Christian back so they can behead him. I'd be happy to post about 50 more examples Logic, but you never read anyone's post but your own.

Afghanistan: Kidnappers of Italian journalist demand return of Muslim convert to Christianity

Abdul Rahman, you may recall, converted from Islam to Christianity and was spirited to Italy when Afghanistan's brave new democratic government determined to obey Muhammad's command to kill those who leave Islam (cf. Bukhari 4.52.260). Now jihadists in Afghanistan are demanding his return in exchange for a kidnapped Italian journalist.
And meanwhile, Islamic apologists in the U.S. blandly claim that Islam has no death penalty for apostasy, and call me "Islamophobic" for pointing out that it actually does (Salam Al-Maryati of MPAC did this to me on the Medved show not long ago, and it has happened elsewhere also). This illustrates the hollowness of the arguments we hear all the time about how we must support self-proclaimed moderate Muslims by refraining from noting the flimsiness and weakness of their presentations. While we're being polite to alleged "reformers," Muslim hardliners are cheerfully implementing the elements of Islamic law that we're nodding our heads and agreeing don't exist.
"Italian's kidnappers set terms for release: website," from AFP, with thanks to the Constantinopolitan Irredentist:

ROME (AFP) - The kidnappers of an Italian photojournalist in Afghanistan have demanded the return of an Afghan Christian convert living in Italy in exchange for keeping the reporter alive, an Italian online newspaper reported. The PeaceReporter website said the kidnappers of 36-year-old Gabriele Torsello had made the demand in a telephone call to Italian non-governmental organisation Emergency and had given four days for their demand to be met.
"We want this issue resolved before the end of Ramadan," the PeaceReporter website quoted them as saying. The holy Muslim fasting month of Ramadan ends this year on October 24.
Earlier this year Italy granted political asylum to 41-year-old Afghan Abdul Rahman, who faced possible execution under Islamic Sharia law in Afghanistan for converting to Christianity.
​

Possible execution under islamic sharia , has nothing to do with beheading someone, and more importantly, how do we know it will happen? brin other exemple that really did happen. Nice try.

 

[earth_as_one]

The Taliban are a political/military organization created by the Pakistani Secret Service with American, British and Saudi funding in order to put Afghanistan under Pakistan's indirect control during the Afghan civil war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban

Up until 9/11, the US didn't have any problems with the Taliban's cruel and barbaric rule of Afghanistan.

But the Taliban represents mainstream Islam as much as The Army of God represents mainstream Christianity.

Army of God

Base of Operation: United States Founding Philosophy: The Army of God is an underground network of terrorists who believe that the use of violence is an appropriate tool for fighting against abortion.

...Several Army of God members have been involved in highly publicized incidents of terrorism. Eric Robert Rudolph was charged with the Atlanta Olympic bombing, as well as the bombings of an abortion clinic and a gay bar in Atlanta. Secondary bombs, designed to detonate after emergency service personnel arrived at the scene, were planted at both the abortion clinic and the gay bar. Another Army of God member, James Kopp, was convicted in the fatal shooting of clinic doctor Dr. Barnett Slepian in 1998. Kopp is believed to be connected with a half dozen other similar shootings that took place between 1994 and 1997. Clayton Waagner, the man who has claimed responsibility for sending over 550 anthrax threat letters to clinics in 2001, signed many of his threat letters with the name Army of God. He also posted threats to kill 42 individuals working at abortion clinics on the Army of God website.

Current Goals: Recent reports have noted the Army's increased anti-gay rhetoric and worry that this may be a precursor to attacks on gays and lesbians.

http://www.tkb.org/Group.jsp?groupID=28

If this group got the same level of support as the Taliban, no doubt they could have trained an army and conquered a small country.

 

[earth_as_one]

HAHA, internet forum defamation. Is he ruining your Internet Persona? Is he causing distress to your good "nickname".

That was close to being the funniest forum post i have ever seen.

I suppose you are right. My post above is pretty dumb.

 

[gopher]

And those who follow the terroristic ideas are ok, yes?


Certainly not to me.

Killing Ixil Indians as John Negroponte and Ronald Reagan did equates with Hitler. Ditto for the bombings and killings of Chechans. Indeed, all forms of imperialism and terrorism equates with these crimes. Therefore, we must condemn all such crimes and to refrain from doing so selectively.

Agreed?

 

[gopher]

Muslims and the 5 Questions

Somebody named Dennis Prager wrote a frankly bigotted op-ed for the LA Times asking "Muslims" 5 questions. The questions are fairly easy to answer in themselves, but the stupidity of the whole framework is what is objectionable.
And let's turn the tables on Prager. Let's ask why he is so quiet...

...I can see the point he's trying to make.

A very good post. The matter of so called Muslim "silence" in the face of terrorism has been debunked so many times over the years but many in the West such as Prager (a man noted for his bigotry) disregard all such talk when it suits him. Meantime, over 655,000 Iraqis have died and we do not get even one word of condemnation from right wing Evangelicals who subscribe to the teachings of the "Prince of Peace" who said to always refrain from fighting and to turn the other cheek.

It is time for the West to take a prolonged look into the proverbial mirror, to cease from its mythmaking, and to correct its errors. The Bible says blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the Children of God". These means that the true Christian is obligated to work for peace, not for war. A lesson that evidently has been lost on certain Westerners and for which they shall be accountable on the Judgment Day.

Thank you for your contribution.