The Next Islamophobic Hate Thread

[Chukcha]

It is most unfortunate that Hitler's defenders continue to insist that the Holocaust never took place. And, as anyone can readily see, modern day counterparts insist on the same thing about similar holocausts in Chechnya and the Middle East.

Gopher, the town Grozny had never had any other name but Grozny it started its existense as Grozny - t-h-i-n-k a-b-o-u-t i-t, the word grozny is a russian meaning - means ferocious, stern... mostly it was called as to show the fearfull name for the "nice" naighbours.

 

[Sassylassie]

Gopher is it fair to call us "Haters"? No, we are only asking questions so we can understand Extreme Islam. Here's another article from a Muslim, my voice isn't the only one asking WHY.

Salim Mansur

I'm sorry ...... for the terrible crimes committed by Muslims.


In a recent column, Michael Coren, my colleague here at the Sun, demanded Muslims apologize for wrongs too numerous to list.

Coren is right. I, as a Muslim, apologize without equivocation or reservation for the terrible crimes -- small and big -- committed by Muslims against non-Muslims and against Muslims, as in Darfur, who are weak and easy prey to those who hold power in the name of Islam.

I imagine, however, Coren is not seeking an apology from a person of Muslim faith such as I, who maintains no rank and cannot speak on behalf of the institutionalized world of Islam.

Like many others who share his frustration and legitimate anger, Coren is asking to hear a contrite voice from within institutionalized Islam -- to repent for Muslim misconduct, past and present, that is indefensible by any standard of civility and decency, and seek forgiveness.

But Coren and others might well wait indefinitely for such an apology from those representatives of institutionalized Islam convinced of their own righteousness, even as they are engineers of a civilization's wreckage and prosper in it by the art of bullying.

Muslims and non-Muslims often point to the fact there is no Vatican in contemporary Islam -- no figure like the Pope or the Archbishop of Canterbury who authoritatively represents the Muslim world.

This is only partly true, for the lack of a Pope-like figure among Muslims does not mean an absence of an institutionalized setting operative in the Muslim world.

From the earliest years of post-Prophetic Islam, Muslims holding the power of the sword and what constitutes the authoritative meaning of the Koran and the prophet's traditions, have rigged the boundaries of institutionalized Islam. The wielders of the sword and interpreters of faith have worked in tandem to impose their consensus on all Muslims, and those who have questioned their authority have paid a steep price.

This institutionalized reality of Islam and its resulting complexity are not well understood by non-Muslims. Institutionalized Islam is represented by Muslim majority states and their political and religious leaders who share a consensus on matters of politics and faith.

Below institutionalized Islam's scrutiny exists a vast unaccounted number of Muslims who seek anonymity to escape the coercive notice of authorities in mosques and in presidential or monarchical palaces. Their voices, were they heard, would be rudely dismissed as heretical.

From its beginnings, institutionalized Islam's representatives hollowed out the spiritual content of Islam in the service of political expediency. The inevitable followed -- politics dressed in the robes of religion.

The faces of institutionalized Islam -- political leaders such as Egypt's Hosni Mubarak or religious leaders such as Lebanon's Hasan Nasrallah -- are revealing of what politics have done to faith.

Within the Arab Sunni world the Egyptian-born Sheikh Qaradawi, 80, of Qatar, is the face of institutionalized Islam. He is the closest to what might pass for a titular head of Muslims akin to the Pope. Qaradawi's words, now broadcast by television network al-Jazeerah, are taken as authoritative pronouncements of Islam. He is the "spiritual" leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, a movement formed to repudiate freedom and democracy, and a defender of Islam's war against the West by any means, including suicide bombings.

For such representatives of institutionalized Islam, all things are political. They are the authoritative guardians of the ideology that in Islam religion and politics are inseparable, and jihad -- holy war -- is its defining aspect.

Hence, since this institutionalized Islam is at war with the West, for Coren or anyone else to expect an apology from its generals is rather naive.

 

[gopher]

In case you missed the question gopher. It isn't going away.

Look again - I did answer it. Pretending that it wasn't answered only proves my point.


Now answer mine -- what is to be done in order to get justice for the 655,000 Iraqis killed by Bush and those others killed by other Western imperialists?

 

[gopher]

```nice neighbor```


A history of Chechnya follows:

http://www.chechnyafree.ru/index.php?lng=eng&section=historyeng&row=3


Previously, I posed a question: when were the Romanovs invited to invade Chechnya?

Who exactly is the unfriendly neighbor?

When did Chechnya invade Russia?

In its invasions of Chechnya in the 1990s, Russia has killed over one tenth of the population. Suppose a foreign force invaded the USA and killed over 10 % of the people or over 30 million -- what would the world say to such an invader?

Why isn't Chechnya entitled to its freedom?

Who authorized Russia to continue its occupation of Chechnya?

Why is the brutal genocide of Chechens disregarded by the entire Western world????


Now suppose an Islamic power invaded a Christian nation and committed genocide upon a sizable portion of its population, what would the West say to that????

 

[gopher]

```extreme Islam```


How does that compare with ```extreme Christianity``` such as Ann Coulter or Jerry Falwell or Michael Savage's call for the extermination of 100 million Muslims:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200604190001

Wed, Apr 19, 2006 10:13am EST
Send to a friend Print Version

Savage advocated "kill[ing] 100 million" Muslims; called alleged Duke rape victim a "drunken **** stripping *****"

Summary: On April 17, Michael Savage called for "kill[ing] 100 million" Muslims and referred to the alleged Duke rape victim as a "drunken **** stripping *****."

​

On April 17, nationally syndicated radio host Michael Savage called for "kill[ing] 100 million" Muslims and referred to the woman who alleged she was raped by members of Duke University's lacrosse team as a "drunken **** stripping *****."
On his radio show, Savage told listeners that "intelligent people, wealthy people ... are very depressed by the weakness that America is showing to these psychotics in the Muslim world. They say, 'Oh, there's a billion of them.' " Savage continued: "I said, 'So, kill 100 million of them, then there'd be 900 million of them.' I mean ... would you rather us die than them?" Savage added: "Would you rather we disappear or we die? Or would you rather they disappear and they die? Because you're going to have to make that choice sooner rather than later."






.............................................................................................................






Now do me a favor and answer my earlier question: the West has murdered MILLIONS of Muslims through invasions by England, France, Italy, and Russia. These invaders have also stolen BILLIONS in treasures and continue to profit from those resources. My question: WHAT IS TO BE DONE SO THAT THOSE MUSLIM VICTIMS CAN HAVE JUSTICE FOR THE CRIMES COMMITTED AGAINST THEM????

 

[Sassylassie]

Gopher using 200 year old acts of war between two "Warring Factions" in an argument about Extreme Islam in 2006 is assine. It's not applicable period. Muslims around the world are killing Muslims at a horrific rate, give me "One" example of a Christian killing a Muslim in the name of God in the past month. We learn from History so we don't repeat it and Christians aren't slaughtering anyone. Your agument is mute and fallacy fallible, latin for "Who is easily fallible".

Regarding the article I posted on Muslims asking the same questions as I, do you ever address an issue with a rebuttal that is relevant to the topic. I live in Canada not the US, using American Religious Fanatics isn't relivant to me. I'm discussing Extreme Islam in Canada, please if you can't debate the topic with info relevant to the topic perhaps you should listen and stop dismissing everyones point of view but yours.

 

[CDNBear]

Gopher using 200 year old acts of war between two "Warring Factions" in an argument about Extreme Islam in 2006 is assine. It's not applicable period. Muslims around the world are killing Muslims at a horrific rate, give me "One" example of a Christian killing a Muslim in the name of God in the past month. We learn from History so we don't repeat it and Christians aren't slaughtering anyone. Your agument is mute and fallacy fallible, latin for "Who is easily fallible".

Regarding the article I posted on Muslims asking the same questions as I, do you ever address an issue with a rebuttal that is relevant to the topic. I live in Canada not the US, using American Religious Fanatics isn't relivant to me. I'm discussing Extreme Islam in Canada, please if you can't debate the topic with info relevant to the topic perhaps you should listen and stop dismissing everyones point of view but yours.

Sass, as much as I admire Gophers passion, I'm floored by his blindness to the grey areas of this issue. Yes the Evanglists are in white house, yes Islam in some cases, is bad. But he won't hear of it.

I agree with his position that Christians have commit just as many atrocities over the ages, but like you said, what have they done lately.

You do realise, he might come back with, "They're in Iraq and Afghanistan Killing Muslims."

 

[I think not]

Look again - I did answer it. Pretending that it wasn't answered only proves my point.


Now answer mine -- what is to be done in order to get justice for the 655,000 Iraqis killed by Bush and those others killed by other Western imperialists?

No you didn't answer my question. I'm still waiting.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Funny how Gopher dodged my post with the information about Islamic Terrorists in Iraq killing a Priest and a 14 year old boy for the pope's comments..

 

[gopher]

I'm discussing Extreme Islam in Canada


I'm a Yank from Minnesota and cannot answer for conditions in Canada as I have never been there and am not aware of what those conditions are like.


As for the notion that Christians have not killed Muslims, you have already been made aware that Bush (an evangelical Protestant) said he was ordered by the Christian God to invade Iraq. He has killed 655,000 Iraqi Muslims. How can you or anyone else say that Christians have not killed Muslims????


```priest killed by Muslim fanatics```

Any such attack is a tragedy and I have said that before. But why was the fact that Catholics attacked by Hindus ignored on this forum when I twice brought it up?

Again, see:

http://www.asianews.it/view.php?l=en&art=1404



Let's see whether I get any straightforward answer this time. Don't worry, I won't hold my breath.

 

[Colpy]

Okay, here is a straight forward answer:

I don't know who on this forum denied that Christians have killed Muslims, Hindus, Bhuddists, Confucians, agnostics, atheists, jews, pagans, Druids, nature worshipers, and just about anyone else you can think of. Anybody that would deny that simply has no knowledge of history.

Pick any of the groups listed above as victims of the Christians, and investigate them in the role of oppressor, and you will find that they too have killed off folks in as many groups as they have come in contact with.

What is your point? I don't get it.

I do think the idea that the invasion of Iraq killed 655,000 Iraqis is just whacky......I believe the Lancet has a bit of a political agenda here.

 

[gopher]

I don't know who on this forum denied that Christians killed Muslims ...


You don't?

See post # 86 on this thread.

No wait --- let's post an excerpt so that you cannot deny it:

give me "One" example of a Christian killing a Muslim in the name of God in the past month.


Now look at post # 87. No, wait! Let's quote it here:

Christians have commit just as many atrocities over the ages, but like you said, what have they done lately.



Need I say more? There you have two quotes which deny that Christians have killed Muslims in recent times. Also note that the quote in which Bush said he invaded Iraq as per the Christian God's instruction have previously been posted on this forum by other writers. Therefore to say that Christians have not recently killed Muslims is a total absurdity. Nothing could be more inane and baseless.

One possible explanation for this inanity is the fact that Canadians just are not aware of how influential right wing television evangelists are here in the USA. Minneapolis, for example, is thought by many to be a liberal city. St Paul is also thought to be that way. Yet, this metro area has about a dozen right wing evangelical radio stations each of whom speaks reich wing hate garbage on a daily basis. Every day people here are taught that Muslims are devils who must be converted or eradicated. You think I'm making this up? Want to make a bet? Try listening to KKMS which should rightfully be called KKKMS for its brand of "Christian" hate. "Relevant Radio" is a hard core right wing "Catholic" radio station that also features daily hate attacks against Muslims. There are more, especially in the talk shows. Imagine all this endless hate talk in what is thought to be a liberal area! And the problem is worse in other markets that are right wing politically.


``` The Lancet has an agenda```


Again, I wonder how much you really know on the topic. That report of 655,000 dead Iraqis was endorsed by Johns Hopkins University which is the most CONSERVATIVE COLLEGE in the East Coast. If you were from the USA's East Coast you would know this to be incontrovertibly true. If you are a conservative, then you would say that the only agenda here is the pursuit of the truth. Nothing more.

 

[Colpy]

You've missed something, Gopher.

You are misrepresentating the arguments used against you.

Post 86 said, as you quoted it....".give me "One" example of a Christian killing a Muslim in the name of God in the past month"

The key words here are "in the name of GOD"

And the writer is correct. Murder in the name of God has become a Muslim practice, not exclusively, but damn close.............

As for John Hopkins University, I am NOT convinced................a "conservative" university is a contradiction in terms, IMHO.

 

[Chukcha]

Previously, I posed a question: when were the Romanovs invited to invade Chechnya?

Who exactly is the unfriendly neighbor?

When did Chechnya invade Russia?

Why isn't Chechnya entitled to its freedom?

Who authorized Russia to continue its occupation of Chechnya?

Why is the brutal genocide of Chechens disregarded by the entire Western world????


Now suppose an Islamic power invaded a Christian nation and committed genocide upon a sizable portion of its population, what would the West say to that????

nice try with the link above Gopher

-no one invaded chechnya, chechens want to believe in that. That's all there is to it.
second: the unfriendly naighbours are the chechens - not many other republics have created as much trouble as chechens, not many other nations have been behaving so ragefull and disrepectfull towards russians.

- who says chechnya is not entitled to its freedom, they can get out to arabic countries, no one is stoping them.

- chechnya is forgetting something, the land is not theirs in the first place, the story would be different if russian lifes were not at risk, but they are and it is necessary to take more severe steps, as the bombings, rapes, continuing to happen, if they want that land tough luck, this is an open entry to the ME, russia doesn't need it, not at any offer, not in this case.

- the murders are continually done by the chechens not russians, "those who raise a knife shall die from a knife", not one sided action, sorry, one has to defend himself.

and by the way, who gave a permission the arabs to supply weapons illegally to chechens whilst the land is still russian?

all I see is that you defend the muslim, who are the most intollerant in the world, to their own people including, to their own women and children, and yet they are the innosent ones in your point of view.
If you defend them so much, why don't you defend their poor kids from the muslims themselves, maybe that's what those kids need, maybe they would be happier if they were raised in a different atmosphere in a more open minded tolerant world, but only now they are raised not knowing what are they going to be used as - a bomb or a slave? why don't you defend their women as well, who don't have any human rights and can't appeal for it, because they simply scared, yes, yes, gopher, that's all it is

 

[gopher]

```in the name of God```


You conveniently overlooked

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/international-politics/51344-veiled-teacher-facing-sack-5.html

see my post # 73 where your hero Bush says that he committed his acts of imperialistic war in the name of God

CASE CLOSED.

 

[gopher]

```no one invaded Chechnya```


Show me proof that the Romanovs were invited to ener into Chechnya in 1856. Also include proof that Yeltsin was welcomed with open arms in 1996 and that Putin is regarded as a savior today.

When you prove it, then I'll believe you.

 

[gopher]

```As for John Hopkins University, I am NOT convinced................a "conservative" university is a contradiction in terms, IMHO```


OK, so long as you admit that this represents YOUR opinion. You are Canadian, not a Yank who grew up in the East Coast as I did. I know the culture a hundred times better than you do. And one reason why I know JHU so well is because as I have said on this forum before, I am a lacrosse fanatic (a sport you Canadians are well acquainted with). As some Canadians know, JHU is the USA's # 1 lax program. Therefore, I have been following that school's history and politics for a long time. And yes, it is the number one conservative school in the East Coast.

The only agenda it has here is the TRUTH.

 

[Chukcha]

```no one invaded Chechnya```


Show me proof that the Romanovs were invited to ener into Chechnya in 1856. Also include proof that Yeltsin was welcomed with open arms in 1996 and that Putin is regarded as a savior today.

When you prove it, then I'll believe you.

hello my jewish friend oh, I just loved it, you've gotta laugh!'
ok, I am on my way to get you the proofs, let me tie the laces on my sport shoes.
can I also ask you - do you hate russians?

 

[northstar]

With all of the hate filled Islamophobic threads we continue to have on this forum, let's anticipate what the next one will look like.

Use this thread to post more hate, more sarcasm, more stereotypes, and to show your ignorance of Islam.

C'on you paid Mossad and MEK agents -- earn your money and post more hatred here.

--gopher

What I really hate is people who are so filled with their self-worth that they post in HUGE bold WORDS...but of course that could be a reflection of the fact the really have very little to say, so they post it big!!!

Anyway, what is, is what is...If you want to start a thread to support hatred you just go ahead, rant and rave.

For the others, l have some insightful information...

Proof of Muslims’ advocating and supporting wife beating-


http://switch5.castup.net/frames/20041020_MemriTV_Popup/video_480x360.asp?ai=214&ar=590wmv&ak=null [wife beaters]

 

[Chukcha]

Why is the brutal genocide of Chechens disregarded by the entire Western world????

why is the brutal genocide of russians, armenians, polish, etc, etc, etc disregarded?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russophobia