North Korea nuke thread

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
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Or maybe it was the little missile deal that Ollie North and Ronny RAygun hatched a few years back that you're talking about.....

Kim and Saddam can't have weapons unless the Untied States says it's OK for them to have weapons... Unless the United States cuts a deal to supply missiles to some regime in the Middle East or supplies another regime with WMD then...well of course that's perfectly OK!

Why on earth would a bunch of Iranians or Iraqis or millions of other people be annoyed that the great powers feel just perfectly OK with arming various governments and racicals and criminals with weapons from time to time and so a few million of their brothers and sisters are annihilated becasue that's what the U.S. and Britain and Canada decides is better...... could that be what you're talking about?????
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
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Just an aside of sorts here and I realize it's thematically misplaced, but if your nation supplies weapons and armaments to different regimes at different times and millions of people are killed as these various regimes practice their policies, does that make you a terrorist?

If I hand an enraged man a loaded pistol am I attempting to bring peace to the situation or am I creating an atmosphere of escalation?....
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
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Just an aside of sorts here and I realize it's thematically misplaced, but if your nation supplies weapons and armaments to different regimes at different times and millions of people are killed as these various regimes practice their policies, does that make you a terrorist?

If I hand an enraged man a loaded pistol am I attempting to bring peace to the situation or am I creating an atmosphere of escalation?....

Depends on why the guy is enraged.

Sometimes the best way to create peace is to kill everyone of a different view.

Just ask any radical Muslim.............
 

MattUK

Electoral Member
Aug 11, 2006
119
0
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UK
For all the discussions we have had recently - can ANYONE actually come up with a way of making the earth peaceful again?

As more time passes, it seems to look less and less likely.

We are in a worrying situation. Who was it who said "If there is ever a Nuclear war, the next war to be fought will be with bows and arrows"? Seems they may be proved right someday soon...
 

feronia

Time Out
Jul 19, 2006
252
0
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Yes theres a way. Take away everyones TV and religions. Nobody would watch brain dead programing or sensationalist extremist newscasting and no one will try to kill the world for god or whoever the deity of the day is.
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
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You're almost right feronia....

If we tell people to simply STOP will they listen?

No extremely unlikely and many would argue impossible.

Stop supporting the corporations that are bankrolling all the hostility in the world so their executives can build financial empires on the blood of innocence....

No Canadian and certainly no America would degn to imagine for a moment that we each have a responsibility and we each have something we can do to intervene because that would demand two things we don't see a great deal of anymore in this enlightened century....

Honest acceptance of personal responsibility and willingness to stand up and do something...

Our highest goals and the attributes we aspire to are apathy and conformity, with a dash of holier-than-thou thrown in by our various religions....

I just wish someone would push the damn button and give the remainder of life on this planet an opportunity to survive and recover without the virus of humanity infecting the planet.
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
138
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California
MikeyDB

When I first started reading what kind of feelings Canadians seem to have regarding the U.S. I was angry and shocked. Generally I just move on thinking "same old same old" but you personally have demonstrated kindness to me and respect, so I'll stop to answer - and it is nothing new. It is an old answer I use often with no solution in sight.

Now it has become second nature to expect it from Canadians, no matter the topic, the issue, the time of year, it comes down to the hate and bigotry towards the U.S. Everything is the "fault" of the U.S.

Years ago I could not conceive that Canada would ever need to feel this way towards another nation. I am not talking about wise advice or sensible cooperation, but the mealy mouth, downright filthy bigotry I read from people of my homeland towards the people among whom I live.

You understand the concept of transferrence.....I see much of it. Deflection and neglect of personal governmental and trade issues which I do not see being dealt with - but preference being given to turn almost every topic into one of U.S. global destruction.

Were Canada the country of honor and if what is being writting here was fact - all this ugly stuff - Canada should break off all trade and defense relations with the U.S. They should seek other countries with which to expand their economy, share defenses with and explore options rather than the traditional north south misadventure.

Canada is an autonomous nation - why then do you make deals with what you brand "the devil" ????

Canada: a wonderful positive nation of proud people who have spread their care and financial assistance around the world giving comfort and peace....and taken part valiantly in many international conflicts..... why do you prefer to remain static, caught in your web of frustration and spend hours spitting out faults and names over which nobody here has any control?

If I did not care, I would simply flip my finger and have a sneer at all of you in the wading pool of hate. I
used to do that years ago because I thought the internet was primarily young unlearned people. Now I realize I am reading adults - experienced men and women who have great concern for what will happen next. I assure you - continued blame on another rather than introspection - will find you in the same place you were last year and the year before.

Nothing has changed since I began my reading of Canadian forums years ago.. except the venom has become worse. I can't even say it is political belonging to one party or one man.... it has been going
on for a long time. Perhaps it is easier to hate a neighbor rather than fix the house eh?

It would seem to me very few even comprehend the implications for the future of your nation in what you say here. Or are you all merely using this forum to expell your anxieties without realizing you could be
telling your fortunes in so doing? That rock and the hard place cannot be very comfortable.

 

feronia

Time Out
Jul 19, 2006
252
0
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We're not going out that way. It's to easy. We're going to debate ourselves right out of a rich and happy life. MikeyDB is your life really happy? I mean think about it. Do you have food? Shelter? A few bucks left over for the internet and a invigorating debate or two? Life's good when you change your prospective. Walk away from the TV and the computer and really see the important things. Thats how we find peace. True peace.
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
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I couldn't agree more Curiosity...

I'd like to see Canada divorce itself entirely from any and all affiliation with the United States of America. The reason why you see so much animosity aimed at the United States is because they deserve it!

You seem like a bright enough person, does it stand to reason that the issues and policies of one government (the United States of America) found in every study from the horrific death and destruction in Central America, and the Carribean, to support for dictatorships like Marcos and Pinochet and Suharto and various other regimes around the world (including Israel) are also the source of the greatest bloodshed and suffering throughout the world?

Do we chastise the Swedes or the Danes or the Polish or anyone else nearly as much as we chastise America?

No of course not because it isn't the Swedes or the Danes or the Polish that are found supporting facist regimes and funding terrorist nations...supplying weapons to both sides and then waltzing in like the saviour of the world so they can pillage....

It is the United States Curiosity and of course we can argue whether the people of Indonesia deserved the Marcos regime and ignore petroleum and industrial interests...we could argue that Iraqis and Iranians have suffered justly or unjustly at the hands of regimes made wealthy beyond belief by American businesses enthusiasm for programming consumption and devising a system of economics nearly completely dependent on automobiles and of course the gasoline needed to realize the "freedom of the raod" as Buick or Oldsmobile used to say in their commericals...

No there are too many businesses and too many interests in Canada to divorce the two nations because the great commonality uniting our two nations is greed.....

It's not the effort to bring "democracy" to the world, we don't live in an equal representative democracy ourselves what the hell would we know about democracy?

It's not to bring freedom to the world, our department stores are full of products we enjoy buying at low prices that rely on the modern iteration of slavery to enhance our habits of consumption...no room for "freedom" there...

America deserves to be despised and disliked and it has earned the reputation of the worlds most hated nation not because it has acted with tolerance justice and balance, but because it has and continues to stoke the furnaces of hatred and inequity.

Fqk America but Fqk America for what its guilty of and not some dog and pony show presented like the Colin Powel "Be Afraid be very Afraid" show at the U.N. but for actively supporring terrorism around the world and calling it commerce...
 

thomaska

Council Member
May 24, 2006
1,509
37
48
Great Satan
Yes Kim is a bit nutty, and yes he did make a bomb, so what? Bush has a bomb and the crowd in Washington in charge of government is a whole lot nutty.
Korea has every right to do what they want inside their own borders. That is what it means to be an independant state. Its when you attack your neighbours, is when you create problems.
Putting sactions on countries is what isolates them and they become more of a problem than what you started out with. Through negociation and interaction with people, you keep nations in the loop with whats happening in the world.
For years China was out of the loop until of all people Nixon realized it was better to have discussion with China, rather than conflict, that is what eased tensions.
The current American regime, believes you can just bully people to put them in line. Look at the mess they've created everywhere.


Wow might have been a record, it actually took 8 or 9 posts for this to get turned into an anti-american/bush rant. Woohoo!! progress!!!:rolleyes:
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
10,385
129
63
Toronto
I couldn't agree more Curiosity...

I'd like to see Canada divorce itself entirely from any and all affiliation with the United States of America. The reason why you see so much animosity aimed at the United States is because they deserve it!

You seem like a bright enough person, does it stand to reason that the issues and policies of one government (the United States of America) found in every study from the horrific death and destruction in Central America, and the Carribean, to support for dictatorships like Marcos and Pinochet and Suharto and various other regimes around the world (including Israel) are also the source of the greatest bloodshed and suffering throughout the world?

Do we chastise the Swedes or the Danes or the Polish or anyone else nearly as much as we chastise America?

No of course not because it isn't the Swedes or the Danes or the Polish that are found supporting facist regimes and funding terrorist nations...supplying weapons to both sides and then waltzing in like the saviour of the world so they can pillage....

It is the United States Curiosity and of course we can argue whether the people of Indonesia deserved the Marcos regime and ignore petroleum and industrial interests...we could argue that Iraqis and Iranians have suffered justly or unjustly at the hands of regimes made wealthy beyond belief by American businesses enthusiasm for programming consumption and devising a system of economics nearly completely dependent on automobiles and of course the gasoline needed to realize the "freedom of the raod" as Buick or Oldsmobile used to say in their commericals...

No there are too many businesses and too many interests in Canada to divorce the two nations because the great commonality uniting our two nations is greed.....

It's not the effort to bring "democracy" to the world, we don't live in an equal representative democracy ourselves what the hell would we know about democracy?

It's not to bring freedom to the world, our department stores are full of products we enjoy buying at low prices that rely on the modern iteration of slavery to enhance our habits of consumption...no room for "freedom" there...

America deserves to be despised and disliked and it has earned the reputation of the worlds most hated nation not because it has acted with tolerance justice and balance, but because it has and continues to stoke the furnaces of hatred and inequity.

Fqk America but Fqk America for what its guilty of and not some dog and pony show presented like the Colin Powel "Be Afraid be very Afraid" show at the U.N. but for actively supporring terrorism around the world and calling it commerce...

It's a good thing that people who share your opinion of the US are a small minority in Canada.

Perhaps you could apply to be Fidel's new Cabana Boy, I am sure he would enjoy your anti-us rants.
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
138
63
California
MikeyDB

But you have keyed into the source of my sadness but are so ready to unload your own....

If what you write is true - why is Canada continuing to do business with the U.S.???

There is no rationality to what you write and you have merely used my post as an exercise to unleash more hate. You are linking the work of the U.S. and it's military "might" to the condition of your hate towards that nation. What has it to do with Canadians in the present?

Your venom is not cathartic and it is not discussion and certainly not debate. It is you yelling at me telling me you believe the U.S. to be evil.... "but but but"..... It would seem under your rules Canada has become the preverbial lady of the night...(well ladies of the night have natural resources too don't they?)....selling herself for sustenance and money to the worst nation in the global community.

Sell yourselves to the devil and continue ranting about it....yet doing nothing to relieve yourselves of the burden of association. That's a door leading to terrible neurotic insecurity. O Canada!

I think the Canada I knew has gone. Finally ....your condescending "you seem like a bright enough person"...made me laugh....what has "bright" got to do with recognizing hate? Even kids "get" that stuff.

I continue my sadness. Ice cream for lunch !!
 

feronia

Time Out
Jul 19, 2006
252
0
16
Curiosity don't be sad, eat your ice cream and know you Canada still exists. I try not to get attached to people now a days because I get hurt real easy. The Canadians I read here are smart, caring, educated people hat for the most part are not hate mongers. I personally claim no country. I just have opinions and for the most part I sleep easy at night know people like your Canadians are cohabitants of my earth.
 

MattUK

Electoral Member
Aug 11, 2006
119
0
16
UK
I think the animosity is natural.

In Britain we have a bit of a hate for America - well GWBush to be more precise, but thats only because our Prime Minister is sha*ging him up the ar$e. We have an islanders mentality, and I think people here think that Bush is, for want of a better word, bullying blair, or that he is being lied to so that we always help America. It could be totally wrong - but that the PERCEPTION. We dont know what goes on behind closed doors, we only see what we do in the media, and thats kinda how it looks from this side of the atlantic.

We hate the French, Welsh and to a lesser degree, the Scottish. No reason for it in modern day society. They are not horrid people, we are no longer all trying to kill each other etc. I think its just the way that we are brought up. I think its just natural to dislike your nearest neighbours.

Canada extract the Michael out of the USA and the USA extract the Michael out of Canada.

Come back in a thousand years, it will probably be the same then too. Its what makes us human.
 

thomaska

Council Member
May 24, 2006
1,509
37
48
Great Satan
I couldn't agree more Curiosity...

I'd like to see Canada divorce itself entirely from any and all affiliation with the United States of America. The reason why you see so much animosity aimed at the United States is because they deserve it!

You seem like a bright enough person, does it stand to reason that the issues and policies of one government (the United States of America) found in every study from the horrific death and destruction in Central America, and the Carribean, to support for dictatorships like Marcos and Pinochet and Suharto and various other regimes around the world (including Israel) are also the source of the greatest bloodshed and suffering throughout the world?

Do we chastise the Swedes or the Danes or the Polish or anyone else nearly as much as we chastise America?

No of course not because it isn't the Swedes or the Danes or the Polish that are found supporting facist regimes and funding terrorist nations...supplying weapons to both sides and then waltzing in like the saviour of the world so they can pillage....

It is the United States Curiosity and of course we can argue whether the people of Indonesia deserved the Marcos regime and ignore petroleum and industrial interests...we could argue that Iraqis and Iranians have suffered justly or unjustly at the hands of regimes made wealthy beyond belief by American businesses enthusiasm for programming consumption and devising a system of economics nearly completely dependent on automobiles and of course the gasoline needed to realize the "freedom of the raod" as Buick or Oldsmobile used to say in their commericals...

No there are too many businesses and too many interests in Canada to divorce the two nations because the great commonality uniting our two nations is greed.....

It's not the effort to bring "democracy" to the world, we don't live in an equal representative democracy ourselves what the hell would we know about democracy?

It's not to bring freedom to the world, our department stores are full of products we enjoy buying at low prices that rely on the modern iteration of slavery to enhance our habits of consumption...no room for "freedom" there...

America deserves to be despised and disliked and it has earned the reputation of the worlds most hated nation not because it has acted with tolerance justice and balance, but because it has and continues to stoke the furnaces of hatred and inequity.

Fqk America but Fqk America for what its guilty of and not some dog and pony show presented like the Colin Powel "Be Afraid be very Afraid" show at the U.N. but for actively supporring terrorism around the world and calling it commerce...


I'm sure you yourself don't use any of those slave made products do you? Do you continue to live in the skewed democracy of which you speak?

Of course you don't slam the swedes..thats no fun and it gets no approving "harrumphs" and nods of the head over chilled chai lattes from your fellow Che activists...

I find it funny that you think contributing to this forum somehow means you are doing something about the rampant injustice the U.S. heaps on the world...pathetic.

And if you couldnt tell, I'm on the other side of your arguement, and I've been in the Marine Corps for 12 years and Ive been to Iraq twice...I am the heavy breathing, cro-magnon, brute that you see on tv and hear losers like Michael Moore and Hugo Chavez bitch and moan about. But you haven't seen the "me" that helped build schools, or played baseball with Iraqi children, or made lifetime friends with the workers on our base. You people are either ignorant of the tons of good we've done over there, or you choose to ignore it. Either way, shame on you . There my rants done , you wouldnt be convinced we're doing anything good if Che, Lenin, and Allah himself appeared to you and told you themselves.
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
4,612
63
48
If the question is: How do we bring peace to the world and how do we end our self-destruction before it's too late, that demands looking at who and what we are Curiosity...and that includes contributions made to the mess we're all in made by everyone...including Canadians.

You can dismiss the historical facts of how these times have unfolded and ignore that record if you like, you can call it tranferrence or play Pollyanna until the cows come home...

If you want answers you have to ask questions and you have to pay attention to the answers that arrive through reflection on historical evidence and fact.

If you think everyone joinging hands and singing a few choruses of Kum by Yah is going to change a damn thing maybe I was wrong maybe you're not that bright a person after all...
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
49,956
1,910
113
How do you solve a problem like Korea?






Despot ... effigy of Kim Jong-il burns in South Korea yesterday



By GEORGE PASCOE-WATSON
Political Editor
OCTOBER 10, 2006

PRIME Minister Tony Blair and US President George Bush led moves last night to crack down on renegade North Korea after it tested a nuclear bomb.


Pint-sized crackpot leader Kim Jong-il gave the go-ahead for the underground blast — despite worldwide protests.

The United Nations Security Council began crisis talks aimed at punishing his country.

An emergency resolution will be backed by MILITARY authority.

World leaders insisted there were NO plans to invade but the Pentagon HAS drawn up a blueprint for such a move.

And the crisis will speed up US plans to build a missile shield to protect Japan from attack. There are 50,000 US troops stationed there.

Mr Blair said: “We regard this very, very seriously indeed.

“People are seized of the significance of this irresponsible act and there will be a response.”

Mr Blair added the Pyongyang leaders were “in clear breach of their international obligations” and condemned them for conducting the testing in "circumstances where its people are kept virtually in a position of slavery and die of starvation while billions is spent on nuclear weapons".

Dangerous game ... the nuclear club


Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett said today the UK would be “pushing for a robust response”.

She added: “Put simply, this means we shall be pushing for sanctions against North Korea."

She added that the claimed underground test of a nuclear weapon by North Korea “poses a clear threat to international peace and security”.

President Bush raised the fear that brutal dictator Kim could pass nukes to Iran.

The ashen-faced president said at the White House: “The transfer of nuclear weapons or material by North Korea to states or non-state entities would be considered a grave threat to the United States and we would hold North Korea fully accountable for the consequences of such action.”

He accused North Korea of throwing the world’s delicate balance of peace into chaos.

Japan, Russia, China, Pakistan and India all condemned North Korea.

There were angry protests in South Korea where effigies of Kim were burned.
The Security Council was considering a response under Chapter Seven of the UN Charter, which entitles it to act if it identifies a threat to peace.


Blast ... shock wave



Last night the US said it would propose UN sanctions including a TRADE BAN on military and luxury items, powers to INSPECT cargoes entering or leaving the country and FREEZING assets connected to weapons.

The UN are expected to push for a blockade but economic sanctions would hammer an already bankrupt country where more than THREE MILLION people have died of hunger in the last few years.

Estimates varied of the power of the bomb detonated.

Gary Gibson, of Australia’s Seismology Research Center, put it at about one kiloton — equivalent to 1,000 tons of TNT.

But Russia’s RIA news agency quoted Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov as saying it ranged between five and 15 kilotons.



Threat ... North Korean leader The bomb America used to destroy Japanese city Hiroshima in 1945 was 12.5 kilotons.

Japan observed a magnitude 4.9 quake in the northeast of North Korea. They later dispatched three T-4 supersonic spy planes over the area to monitor radiation levels.

North Korea had been under intense diplomatic pressure to abandon its nuclear programme. It had refused for a year to attend international talks.

Its official news agency said yesterday: “The nuclear test will contribute to maintaining peace and stability in the Korean peninsula and surrounding region.”

North Korea is said to have enough radioactive material for about six bombs. They have tried for years to build one.

Experts say it still cannot make a missile capable of carrying one across continents. But one being developed would be able to hit California.

thesun.co.uk
 

ottawabill

Electoral Member
May 27, 2005
909
8
18
Eastern Ontario
the bratty little Moron

So the fearless leader of North Korea has added a little Bomb to his collection of items to get the worlds attention. Hey don't get me wrong..I'd be more than scared if I was in South Korea, but honestly it's a little rouge Nation that could be stopped in days if the Chinese would keep there fingers out of it!

Hey maybe if we's spend good money of products instead of buying the cheapest possible from China...the Chinese would take care of their little friend to get their market share back?? Just a thought!
 

MattUK

Electoral Member
Aug 11, 2006
119
0
16
UK
Anyone else notice on that nice map that Russia actually have the most Nuclear Weapons?

Cant say I trust them too much either really.