The New York Declaration.

Tecumsehsbones

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View attachment 32079
So…who’s the governing body for “Palestine” again that sign off on this?
Reluctant though I am to admit it, petros is right, if you accept his definition of "peace deal." Insofar as the whole "nation-state" system applies to Palestine, Abbas is Dabbas (that was a joke, son). If by "peace deal," one means a treaty, they need Abbas's signature.

This ceasefire or peace deal or agreement for cessation of hostilities or invitation to Susie's birthday part or whatever-the-fuck you feel like calling it has some limited effect if Ham-ass signs off. They're the only ones who have any measure of control over the shooters in Gaza.
 
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Ron in Regina

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Reluctant though I am to admit it, petros is right, if you accept his definition of "peace deal." Insofar as the whole "nation-state" system applies to Palestine, Abbas is Dabbas (that was a joke, son). If by "peace deal," one means a treaty, they need Abbas's signature.

This ceasefire or peace deal or agreement for cessation of hostilities or invitation to Susie's birthday part or whatever-the-fuck you feel like calling it has some limited effect if Ham-ass signs off. They're the only ones who have any measure of control over the shooters in Gaza.
So…is Palestine “Palestine” that some other “entity” can sign off for (?) or is Palestinian Gaza-Palestine & West-Bank-Palestine…being two separate entities with two separate governments that have been separated for 3/4 of a century now…& may not even be compatible as a single unit?
 

petros

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So…is Palestine “Palestine” that some other “entity” can sign off for (?) or is Palestinian Gaza-Palestine & West-Bank-Palestine…being two separate entities with two separate governments that have been separated for 3/4 of a century now…& may not even be compatible as a single unit?
One entity two provinces/states.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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So…is Palestine “Palestine” that some other “entity” can sign off for (?) or is Palestinian Gaza-Palestine & West-Bank-Palestine…being two separate entities with two separate governments that have been separated for 3/4 of a century now…& may not even be compatible as a single unit?
Depends who you ask. According the the UNO, "Palestine" is a single country consisting of East Palestine (confusingly called the West Bank) and the Gaza Strip or "Gaza." As things currently stand, East Palestine has its shit pretty much together, as things in the ME go. Ham-ass is the party in power in the "provincial" (if you will) province of West Palestine. . . i.e., the Gaza Strip or Gaza. Theoretically, it's subordinate to the national government in Ramallah. Theoretically.

Part of the problem is that we're hopscotching from "deal" to "agreement" with this government, that party, and the other gang of assholes with AK-47s. We need to piss or step back and button up. Palestine is either one country or two. If it's one, Ramallah needs to step in and control Gaza. Otherwise, Gaza needs to be recognized as a separate country from the West Bank and dealt with accordingly.

Israel's approach is pragmatic. It's at relative peace with the West Bank, and like all countries, it has the right to defend itself and its people. The question is whether or not what amounts to occupation of part of Palestine is legitimate defence.
 
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Tecumsehsbones

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So…is Palestine “Palestine” that some other “entity” can sign off for (?) or is Palestinian Gaza-Palestine & West-Bank-Palestine…being two separate entities with two separate governments that have been separated for 3/4 of a century now…& may not even be compatible as a single unit?
Correct!
 

Ron in Regina

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Now Hamas is a governing body? I thought they had no civil servants but just terrorists? What made you change your mind?
Sorry, but that’s your tangent and nobody else’s. Hamas is like a terrorist mafia, and not everyone is the Don or a Bagman, etc…but everyone in is in. You’re the one who’s been trying to draw degrees of inclusion based upon job descriptions or whatever.
 

petros

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Sorry, but that’s your tangent and nobody else’s. Hamas is like a terrorist mafia, and not everyone is the Don or a Bagman, etc…but everyone in is in. You’re the one who’s been trying to draw degrees of inclusion based upon job descriptions or whatever.
Thr agriculture minister has 30ft missiles in his kitchen, bags of RPG rounds in his closet, a tunnel to China and 3 bowls of porridge with one too hot, ine too cold but another thats just right?

Is the ag minister in al Qassam?
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Sorry, but that’s your tangent and nobody else’s. Hamas is like a terrorist mafia, and not everyone is the Don or a Bagman, etc…but everyone in is in. You’re the one who’s been trying to draw degrees of inclusion based upon job descriptions or whatever.
Yep. Think Sinn Fein in Northern Ireland in the bad old days. It was a political party, army of liberation, and terrorist organization all rolled into one.

But they all knew what they were doing, and what their organization was doing.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
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Thr agriculture minister has 30ft missiles in his kitchen, bags of RPG rounds in his closet, a tunnel to China and 3 bowls of porridge with one too hot, ine too cold but another thats just right?

Is the ag minister in al Qassam?
Sorry, but that’s your tangent and nobody else’s. Hamas is like a terrorist mafia, and not everyone is the Don or a Bagman, etc…but everyone in is in. You’re the one who’s been trying to draw degrees of inclusion based upon job descriptions or whatever.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
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Two months ago, euphoria washed over the people of both Israel and Gaza in celebration of a U.S.-brokered truce that halted two brutal years of war. But today, amid renewed sporadic fighting, the United States and Israel are at odds over how to implement the peace treaty’s next phase.

Critically, that phase will require Hamas to disarm, a move that the militant Islamic group, committed to armed struggle, is refusing to make. Oh well.

In the face of that rebuff, Washington appears to favor delaying disarmament, or watering down its provisions, according to Israeli media reports, to focus instead on reconstructing the Gaza Strip, wide stretches of which were flattened by Israeli bombs and artillery during the war.

For Israel, leaving Hamas in control of its weaponry is unthinkable, given the militant group’s commitment to the destruction of the state of Israel. It might even precipitate a return to full-scale war, some analysts warn. Oh well.

In the Israeli view, “rebuilding Gaza [before Hamas is disarmed] means you are basically cementing Hamas in place,” he adds.

There is mounting concern in Israel among some government and former security officials that it is being dictated to instead of being a partner in directing what happens next. Oh well.

Disarmament can be a long process, but Hamas’ refusal to commit to such a path makes everything else about the peace process even more complicated, argues Boaz Atzili, a professor of foreign policy and global security at American University in Washington.

“That’s because many of the powers that need to finance rebuilding in Gaza have said they don’t want to invest a penny in the Gaza Strip if it will all be ruined by another round [of war] in a couple of years,” he points out. Oh well.

Behind Washington’s apparent readiness to bypass Hamas’ disarmament, he explains, is a behind-the-scenes struggle between countries such as Qatar and Turkey, who want to maintain the ceasefire but want Hamas to be preserved in one form or another, and other regional powers, such as Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and Egypt, which would prefer to see Hamas destroyed.

At the same time, Arab and Muslim countries would be reluctant to contribute troops to the peacekeeping International Stabilization Force (ISF) for Gaza if they risked facing off against armed Hamas militants. Oh well.

Mediators, such as the Turkish and Qatari governments, have been seeking to strike a compromise with Hamas that would allow its forces to retain light defensive weapons while giving up heavy weaponry, such as missiles.

“The big question,” says Mr. Milshtein, “is what Donald Trump says. If the White House is satisfied with this formula, it means we are in Phase 2 [of the ceasefire] and there will be very broad gaps between this compromise and what Netanyahu is demanding,” which is complete Hamas disarmament. Oh well.

“But the one who decides if this is a ceasefire or a resumption of war is Donald Trump,” Mr. Milshtein says.
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said Sunday after the G20 summit in South Africa that Ankara is still “evaluating” how it might participate in the planned International Stabilization Force in Gaza.

Only in the Middle East could the same leader who shelters Hamas, compares Israel to the Nazis, and its prime minister to Hitler, suggest with a straight face that his country might help stabilize Gaza. Oh well.

The dissonance between the role Erdogan sees for Turkey in Gaza and the one Israel will be willing to let him fill is glaring.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Two months ago, euphoria washed over the people of both Israel and Gaza in celebration of a U.S.-brokered truce that halted two brutal years of war. But today, amid renewed sporadic fighting, the United States and Israel are at odds over how to implement the peace treaty’s next phase.

Critically, that phase will require Hamas to disarm, a move that the militant Islamic group, committed to armed struggle, is refusing to make. Oh well.

In the face of that rebuff, Washington appears to favor delaying disarmament, or watering down its provisions, according to Israeli media reports, to focus instead on reconstructing the Gaza Strip, wide stretches of which were flattened by Israeli bombs and artillery during the war.

For Israel, leaving Hamas in control of its weaponry is unthinkable, given the militant group’s commitment to the destruction of the state of Israel. It might even precipitate a return to full-scale war, some analysts warn. Oh well.

In the Israeli view, “rebuilding Gaza [before Hamas is disarmed] means you are basically cementing Hamas in place,” he adds.

There is mounting concern in Israel among some government and former security officials that it is being dictated to instead of being a partner in directing what happens next. Oh well.

Disarmament can be a long process, but Hamas’ refusal to commit to such a path makes everything else about the peace process even more complicated, argues Boaz Atzili, a professor of foreign policy and global security at American University in Washington.

“That’s because many of the powers that need to finance rebuilding in Gaza have said they don’t want to invest a penny in the Gaza Strip if it will all be ruined by another round [of war] in a couple of years,” he points out. Oh well.

Behind Washington’s apparent readiness to bypass Hamas’ disarmament, he explains, is a behind-the-scenes struggle between countries such as Qatar and Turkey, who want to maintain the ceasefire but want Hamas to be preserved in one form or another, and other regional powers, such as Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and Egypt, which would prefer to see Hamas destroyed.

At the same time, Arab and Muslim countries would be reluctant to contribute troops to the peacekeeping International Stabilization Force (ISF) for Gaza if they risked facing off against armed Hamas militants. Oh well.

Mediators, such as the Turkish and Qatari governments, have been seeking to strike a compromise with Hamas that would allow its forces to retain light defensive weapons while giving up heavy weaponry, such as missiles.

“The big question,” says Mr. Milshtein, “is what Donald Trump says. If the White House is satisfied with this formula, it means we are in Phase 2 [of the ceasefire] and there will be very broad gaps between this compromise and what Netanyahu is demanding,” which is complete Hamas disarmament. Oh well.

“But the one who decides if this is a ceasefire or a resumption of war is Donald Trump,” Mr. Milshtein says.
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said Sunday after the G20 summit in South Africa that Ankara is still “evaluating” how it might participate in the planned International Stabilization Force in Gaza.

Only in the Middle East could the same leader who shelters Hamas, compares Israel to the Nazis, and its prime minister to Hitler, suggest with a straight face that his country might help stabilize Gaza. Oh well.

The dissonance between the role Erdogan sees for Turkey in Gaza and the one Israel will be willing to let him fill is glaring.
Palestine has a right to defend itself from JKK terrorists.