The New York Declaration.

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
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Does you're reply boil down to "We'll see you in Court"?
My reply boils down to, you’re making accusations that aren’t true. You can make ‘predictions’ like, “Israeli will be charged with genocide” but it’s not…not currently, not in the past, but ‘maybe’ in the future.
genocide charges
You keep repeating the same thing, as if it’s true, but it’s not, regardless of how many times you repeat it. Everybody here has Google or some equivalent search engine. They can fact check just like I can fact check, and what you’re stating as a fact, just isn’t a fact. That’s what it boils down to.😁
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
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Anywho….back to the non-peace plan to bring something like peace to Gaza after the shitstorm Hamas (& Friends) brought down upon it a little over two years ago.

President Donald Trump is touting an international force to help bring peace to the shattered Gaza Strip and see that all deceased hostages held by Hamas are returned to Israel.
1761965074753.jpeg
Trump’s 20-point plan specifies that the United States would work with Arab and other “international partners” to secure areas Israeli forces have withdrawn from. “This force will be the long-term internal security solution,” the non-peace plan adds.
Despite plans for former British prime minister Tony Blair to take an administrative role in the Palestinian territory, Ynet reported that no Western countries would be involved in the force.
While the current ceasefire agreement was orchestrated by US President Donald Trump, regional countries will police the Palestinian territory and ensure adherence to the agreement.😉
The role of the stabilization force is still in discussion, according to the report. It is unclear if the force will be responsible for the disarmament of Hamas or simply policing Gaza once the terror group has relinquished its control…🤔…assuming it ever relinquishes control that is.

Earlier this week, King Abdullah of Jordan, one of the Arab and Muslim countries expected to play a role in the future of Gaza, said he did not believe international troops would forcibly disarm Hamas.🙄

Hamas spokesterrorist Qadir Ghazzawi stated, "While we would be open to speaking about terms to bring an end to this conflict, we find the requirement that we stop killing Jews non-negotiable. If President Trump would like to present a plan that would allow Hamas to survive while also retaining the opportunity to murder many, many Jews, we would take it under consideration. Thank you, Great Satan America, and death to Israel."
1761969064636.jpeg
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
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Palestinian political factions are holding closed-door discussions that could see Hamas play a role in shaping a postwar administration in Gaza, despite Israel’s vow to eliminate the militant group’s political influence in the enclave and a decades-old feud between Hamas and the Palestinian Authority.
1762110559834.jpeg
The eight Palestinian factions and armed groups involved in the discussions — including most notably the Fatah party, which leads the Palestinian Authority based in the West Bank, and Hamas — are working to reach a consensus over key elements of an interim administration as early as this week, when they meet again in Cairo, according to Palestinian and other Arab officials and individuals involved in the talks.

In particular, the parties are wrestling over who should head a proposed technocratic committee to run Gaza and whether this de facto cabinet should operate under the aegis of the Palestinian Authority, “if” the current ceasefire holds.
A pivotal question is whether Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu — or President Donald Trump, whose peace plan calls for a new administration — would object to a Gazan government born out of talks between Hamas and Fatah?

Given the fierce rivalry between Fatah and Hamas ever since the birth of Hamas in 1987, observers of Palestinian politics say that even a limited agreement between the two groups would amount to a historic development. If reconciled, they could form the basis for a “future” Palestinian state combining the West Bank and Gaza.

Two years after Israel launched a devastating war (due to…?) to eradicate Hamas, and three weeks after the ceasefire was announced, the inter-Palestinian talks reflect a simple truth: Hamas remains an armed and influential presence in the Gaza Strip. To avoid a protracted postwar insurgency, Hamas must be included in any political settlement, say Palestinian political factions and mediators from Arab countries.

“The last thing you want is for an ideological movement like Hamas to be completely excluded and forced underground, which could lead to an even more radical manifestation,” said Dimitri Diliani, a spokesman for the Fatah Reformist Democratic faction led by the Gazan politician Mohammed Dahlan. “It is important that they feel involved in the political process, while at the same time having no “direct” practical role in governance itself.” (???)

The Palestinian administrative body, if formed, could work alongside or potentially supplant the international “Board of Peace” envisioned in Trump’s plan and handle policing inside Gaza instead of foreign troops now being considered for that role, said Palestinian and Arab officials and other individuals involved in the talks.

The exact mandate of the international Board of Peace, including its relationship with the Palestinian committee, should be decided by the U.N. Security Council, Abdelatty (Egyptian Foreign Minister Badr Abdelatty) said.
1762119899275.jpegBut Egypt and Palestinian factions are adamant that civilian affairs in Gaza should be managed by Palestinians.

For Israel, nearly every aspect of the inter-Palestinian talks — from the involvement of Hamas in the Gaza committee’s formation to the discussions over Hamas-affiliated bureaucrats and security forces potentially staying in place — is unpalatable.

“The fear for Israel is that Hamas will open the gates of Gaza and say to the PA, ‘You’re the boss here. Just bring money to Gaza and you can declare yourself the minister of agriculture or education. Just don’t touch weapons, and we’ll be the dominant player,” said Michael Milshtein, a former Israeli military intelligence analyst of Palestinian affairs.

With their shared anxiety over a resurgent Hamas, Netanyahu may actually find an ally in Abbas, the Palestinian Authority president, said Khaled Okasha, an Egyptian consultant who has advised Palestinian and Egyptian delegations in ceasefire negotiations. The authority “fears there is a U.S.-Hamas agreement behind the scenes” to the effect that Hamas may be able to play some role in Gaza in the future, Okasha said. “The Palestinian Authority wants more than Israel that Hamas is totally removed from Gaza.”

Daniel Shapiro, a former U.S. ambassador to Israel, said it’s not clear how the Trump administration will respond to the Gaza committee once it is assembled by Egypt. Washington will ultimately have to give a “thumbs-up or thumbs-down” to a Gazan government that may bear the imprimatur, however subtle, of Hamas, he said.

“We might see a technocratic committee that does not have nominal, card-carrying Hamas members but has people who will not work against Hamas’s interests,” Shapiro said. “There is a risk that the end state that emerges will be what we wanted to avoid and something akin to the end of previous Israel-Hamas wars: Hamas is battered and bruised but hanging on to power, preparing for the next round.”
So if this proceeds, & Hamas stays in power, even if nominally from the background, and remains armed…or “surrendered its weapons to itself” or what have you…& it’s offensive military infrastructure like it’s tunnel system remains intact…how long until Oct 7th 2.0?
 

petros

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Palestinian political factions are holding closed-door discussions that could see Hamas play a role in shaping a postwar administration in Gaza, despite Israel’s vow to eliminate the militant group’s political influence in the enclave and a decades-old feud between Hamas and the Palestinian Authority.
View attachment 31852
The eight Palestinian factions and armed groups involved in the discussions — including most notably the Fatah party, which leads the Palestinian Authority based in the West Bank, and Hamas — are working to reach a consensus over key elements of an interim administration as early as this week, when they meet again in Cairo, according to Palestinian and other Arab officials and individuals involved in the talks.

In particular, the parties are wrestling over who should head a proposed technocratic committee to run Gaza and whether this de facto cabinet should operate under the aegis of the Palestinian Authority, “if” the current ceasefire holds.
A pivotal question is whether Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu — or President Donald Trump, whose peace plan calls for a new administration — would object to a Gazan government born out of talks between Hamas and Fatah?

Given the fierce rivalry between Fatah and Hamas ever since the birth of Hamas in 1987, observers of Palestinian politics say that even a limited agreement between the two groups would amount to a historic development. If reconciled, they could form the basis for a “future” Palestinian state combining the West Bank and Gaza.

Two years after Israel launched a devastating war (due to…?) to eradicate Hamas, and three weeks after the ceasefire was announced, the inter-Palestinian talks reflect a simple truth: Hamas remains an armed and influential presence in the Gaza Strip. To avoid a protracted postwar insurgency, Hamas must be included in any political settlement, say Palestinian political factions and mediators from Arab countries.

“The last thing you want is for an ideological movement like Hamas to be completely excluded and forced underground, which could lead to an even more radical manifestation,” said Dimitri Diliani, a spokesman for the Fatah Reformist Democratic faction led by the Gazan politician Mohammed Dahlan. “It is important that they feel involved in the political process, while at the same time having no “direct” practical role in governance itself.” (???)

The Palestinian administrative body, if formed, could work alongside or potentially supplant the international “Board of Peace” envisioned in Trump’s plan and handle policing inside Gaza instead of foreign troops now being considered for that role, said Palestinian and Arab officials and other individuals involved in the talks.

The exact mandate of the international Board of Peace, including its relationship with the Palestinian committee, should be decided by the U.N. Security Council, Abdelatty (Egyptian Foreign Minister Badr Abdelatty) said.
View attachment 31855But Egypt and Palestinian factions are adamant that civilian affairs in Gaza should be managed by Palestinians.

For Israel, nearly every aspect of the inter-Palestinian talks — from the involvement of Hamas in the Gaza committee’s formation to the discussions over Hamas-affiliated bureaucrats and security forces potentially staying in place — is unpalatable.

“The fear for Israel is that Hamas will open the gates of Gaza and say to the PA, ‘You’re the boss here. Just bring money to Gaza and you can declare yourself the minister of agriculture or education. Just don’t touch weapons, and we’ll be the dominant player,” said Michael Milshtein, a former Israeli military intelligence analyst of Palestinian affairs.

With their shared anxiety over a resurgent Hamas, Netanyahu may actually find an ally in Abbas, the Palestinian Authority president, said Khaled Okasha, an Egyptian consultant who has advised Palestinian and Egyptian delegations in ceasefire negotiations. The authority “fears there is a U.S.-Hamas agreement behind the scenes” to the effect that Hamas may be able to play some role in Gaza in the future, Okasha said. “The Palestinian Authority wants more than Israel that Hamas is totally removed from Gaza.”

Daniel Shapiro, a former U.S. ambassador to Israel, said it’s not clear how the Trump administration will respond to the Gaza committee once it is assembled by Egypt. Washington will ultimately have to give a “thumbs-up or thumbs-down” to a Gazan government that may bear the imprimatur, however subtle, of Hamas, he said.

“We might see a technocratic committee that does not have nominal, card-carrying Hamas members but has people who will not work against Hamas’s interests,” Shapiro said. “There is a risk that the end state that emerges will be what we wanted to avoid and something akin to the end of previous Israel-Hamas wars: Hamas is battered and bruised but hanging on to power, preparing for the next round.”
So if this proceeds, & Hamas stays in power, even if nominally from the background, and remains armed…or “surrendered its weapons to itself” or what have you…& it’s offensive military infrastructure like it’s tunnel system remains intact…how long until Oct 7th 2.0?
Pop Tart Party
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
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Since the U.S.-brokered ceasefire took effect in Gaza on October 10, the Rafah area has been the scene of at least two attacks on Israeli forces which Israel has blamed on Hamas; the militant group has denied responsibility.

Egyptian mediators have proposed that, in exchange for safe passage, fighters still in Rafah surrender their arms to Egypt and give details of tunnels there so they can be destroyed, one of the sources, an Egyptian security official, said.
 

Dixie Cup

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Oct 7 is a genocide but Israel isn't committing one? You're going to stand by that?
Absolutely. Israel is the only country to be attacked & expected ensure there are no civilians killed as Hamas uses them as shields by putting military armaments & solders in schools & hospitals. That has been proven to be true but of course, everything is always on Israel. I agree with a previous post: If Israel is committing genocide, it's REALLY bad at it. Hamas, OTOH is very good at killing their own & blaming Israel.

Israel isn't perfect. They make mistakes. But their solders are held to account. That point alone seems to be missing in the discussions.
 
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petros

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Absolutely. Israel is the only country to be attacked & expected ensure there are no civilians killed as Hamas uses them as shields by putting military armaments & solders in schools & hospitals. That has been proven to be true but of course, everything is always on Israel. I agree with a previous post: If Israel is committing genocide, it's REALLY bad at it. Hamas, OTOH is very good at killing their own & blaming Israel.

Israel isn't perfect. They make mistakes. But their solders are held to account. That point alone seems to be missing in the discussions.
Which countries have attacked Israel without being attacked first? I'll give you a hint. There is only 1 and it starts with Y.

No other country on earth has used 2000lb bombs on high density urban areas. No one ever so do give that bullshit anymore stink than it deserves. US even halted sending those weapons because of use on civilians.

Racine, WisconsinCNN —
President Joe Biden said for the first time Wednesday he would halt some shipments of American weapons to Israel – which he acknowledged have been used to kill civilians in Gaza – if Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu orders a major invasion of the city of Rafah.

“Civilians have been killed in Gaza as a consequence of those bombs and other ways in which they go after population centers,” Biden told CNN’s Erin Burnett in an exclusive interview on “Erin Burnett OutFront,” referring to 2,000-pound bombs that Biden paused shipments of last week.

“I made it clear that if they go into Rafah – they haven’t gone in Rafah yet – if they go into Rafah, I’m not supplying the weapons that have been used historically to deal with Rafah, to deal with the cities – that deal with that problem,” Biden said.

The president’s announcement that he was prepared to condition American weaponry on Israel’s actions amounts to a turning point in the seven-month conflict between Israel and Hamas. And his acknowledgement that American bombs had been used to kill civilians in Gaza was a stark recognition of the United States’ role in the war.

The president has come under extraordinary pressure, including from members of his own party, to limit shipments of arms amid a humanitarian crisis in Gaza.



The bullshit of shit in schools, hospitals and in the middle of refugee camps just that pure bullshit. Those lies are why Israel and its leadership are up on war crimes. Id love to see this "proof" you claim.

Why do they keep getting caught lying?


Or this



While noting that Israel has alleged that hospitals were being improperly used for military purposes, he stated that Israel “has not provided sufficient information to substantiate many of these claims”. Against that backdrop, he called for independent, thorough and transparent investigations into all Israeli attacks on hospitals, healthcare infrastructure and medical personnel, as well as the alleged misuse of such facilities.

“Hospitals have become battlegrounds in Gaza,” added Rik Peeperkorn, World Health Organization (WHO) Representative for the West Bank and Gaza, noting that the Strip’s health sector is being “systematically dismantled and pushed to the breaking point”. Only 16 of 36 hospitals in Gaza remain partially functional, and most hospitals lack the capacity to treat chronic diseases and complex injuries. Further, the pace of medical evacuations remains extremely slow, while the entry of supplies into and across Gaza is hampered by restrictions and delays. “To date, WHO has verified 654 attacks on healthcare facilities in Gaza,” he added.

Or this

CGI tunnels under hospitals.....



Where's your proof? Show me.

I have a dollar for anyone who correctly guess the location of where the HaKirya (Israeli version of Pentagon) is currently operating from.

Any takers?
 
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Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
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Which countries have attacked Israel without being attacked first? I'll give you a hint. There is only 1 and it starts with Y.
Starting when? Just need to know what your statute of limitations is with respect to this question so it could be accurately answered. I’m assuming you don’t mean starting in 1948 with Israel’s inception, right?
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
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No other country on earth has used 2000lb bombs on high density urban areas. No one ever so do give that bullshit anymore stink than it deserves. US even halted sending those weapons because of use on civilians.
Hiroshima? Nagasaki? Dresden? Granted these weren’t 2000lb bombs, or these wouldn’t count because they’re not 2000lb bombs? Or are you restricting this conversation to a specific timeframe and if so, what would that be?
 

petros

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Hiroshima? Nagasaki? Dresden? Granted these weren’t 2000lb bombs, or these wouldn’t count because they’re not 2000lb bombs? Or are you restricting this conversation to a specific timeframe and if so, what would that be?
Did I say atom bomb?

A Times Investigation Tracked Israel’s Use of One of Its Most Destructive Bombs in South Gaza
Share full article1.9k
Video
munitions in Western
military arsenals.





A Times investigation used aerial imagery and artificial intelligence to detect bomb craters that showed that one of Israel’s biggest bombs was used routinely in south Gaza.



By Robin SteinHaley WillisIshaan JhaveriDanielle MillerAaron Byrd and Natalie Reneau

Dec. 21, 2023
During the first six weeks of the war in Gaza, Israel routinely used one of its biggest and most destructive bombs in areas it designated safe for civilians, according to an analysis of visual evidence by The New York Times.

The video investigation focuses on the use of 2,000-pound bombs in an area of southern Gaza where Israel had ordered civilians to move for safety. While bombs of that size are used by several Western militaries, munitions experts say they are almost never dropped by U.S. forces in densely populated areas anymore.

The Times programmed an artificial intelligence tool to scan satellite imagery of south Gaza for bomb craters. Times reporters manually reviewed the search results, looking for craters measuring roughly 40 feet across or larger. Munitions experts say typically only 2,000-pound bombs form craters of that size in Gaza’s light, sandy soil.
 

petros

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Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
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Which countries have attacked Israel without being attacked first? I'll give you a hint. There is only 1 and it starts with Y.
Starting when? Just need to know what your statute of limitations is with respect to this question so it could be accurately answered. I’m assuming you don’t mean starting in 1948 with Israel’s inception, right?
All times. I've post the "proof" twice in this thread.
So we’re talking about 1948 then or something else? The coordinated invasion by the sovereign Arab nations marked the formal start of the full-scale interstate war, with an initial aerial assault by Egypt on Tel Aviv. That’s the nation on nation, since you’re talking about countries (not just the one in that neighbourhood starting with the letter “Y”) facts on whom attacked whom first, since you’ve opened this up and say “all times” I guess.
 

petros

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So we’re talking about 1948 then or something else? The coordinated invasion by the sovereign Arab nations marked the formal start of the full-scale interstate war, with an initial aerial assault by Egypt on Tel Aviv. That’s the nation on nation, since you’re talking about countries (not just the one in that neighbourhood starting with the letter “Y”) facts on whom attacked whom first, since you’ve opened this up and say “all times” I guess.
Everything since. Name names.

I keep hearing how they've been attacked hundreds of thousands of times.

Cough up a list.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
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No other country on earth has used 2000lb bombs on high density urban areas. No one ever so do give that bullshit anymore stink than it deserves. US even halted sending those weapons because of use on civilians.
Hiroshima? Nagasaki? Dresden? Granted these weren’t 2000lb bombs, or these wouldn’t count because they’re not 2000lb bombs? Or are you restricting this conversation to a specific timeframe and if so, what would that be?
Did I say atom bomb?
Ok, I knew there’s gonna have to be some limitation that was unmentioned in order to back up your statement. So not nuclear or atom bombs. Got it. Dresden was one of my examples. Conventional bombs of that size have been around for 80 years and we all have Google or the equivalent there of.

Do you think I can find some examples, if needed, probably by all sides involved in World War II (for that 80 years time span for just the beginning of the use of bombs of that size over urban areas) in order to find “any country on earth that is used a bomb of that size on an urban area”? With a quick search, I bet you anybody here can find several examples dating back at least 75 years, and more since.
Everything since. Name names.

I keep hearing how they've been attacked hundreds of thousands of times.

Cough up a list.
Everything since? You want me to make a comprehensive list of the last 3/4 of a century of the Middle East goat rodeo? This sounds like a make-work homework project. Can I just post a link?

Where do you keep hearing that “they” have been attacked hundreds of thousands of times? Serious question here.
 

petros

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Ok, I knew there’s gonna have to be some limitation that was unmentioned in order to back up your statement. So not nuclear or atom bombs. Got it. Dresden was one of my examples. Conventional bombs of that size have been around for 80 years and we all have Google or the equivalent there of.

Do you think I can find some examples, if needed, probably by all sides involved in World War II (for that 80 years time span for just the beginning of the use of bombs of that size over urban areas) in order to find “any country on earth that is used a bomb of that size on an urban area”? With a quick search, I bet you anybody here can find several examples dating back at least 75 years, and more since.
Yup you can and I could have said "since reality set in".
Everything since? You want me to make a comprehensive list of the last 3/4 of a century of the Middle East goat rodeo? This sounds like a make-work homework project. Can I just post a link?

Where do you keep hearing that “they” have been attacked hundreds of thousands of times? Serious question here.
Yes. Yes I do. I gave you a hint. Its 1 and it starts with Y.

Everyday there is a new boogeyman under the Zionist bed.
 

Ron in Regina

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No dollar for you.

Is the Pentagon downtown Washigton or out in the sticks?
How wide is the river that runs beside the Pentagon? Potomac I mean? Perhaps somebody that actually lives in that neighbourhood (let’s call it general vicinity) can answer this question better than either of us.
  • Geographical location: The Pentagon is in Arlington, Virginia, separated from Washington, D.C. by the Potomac River.
  • Urban context: It is located in the urban area of Arlington, adjacent to the neighborhood of Pentagon City, which is known for its businesses and retail.
  • Proximity to D.C.: It is very close to downtown Washington, D.C., about a 15-minute metro ride from the White House and National Mall, and accessible via several bridges across the Potomac.
  • Transportation hub: The building is served by its own Metro station, the Pentagon Station on the Blue and Yellow lines, and the Pentagon Transit Center for buses.
  • Regional context: It is part of the broader Washington Metropolitan Region (DMV), which includes the District of Columbia and parts of Maryland and Virginia.
I have a dollar for anyone who correctly guess the location of where the HaKirya (Israeli version of Pentagon) is currently operating from.
Where’s the Pentagon version of the Pentagon in the US located, & why?
In the modern context of warfare, how far does the Pentagon need to be away from urban neighbourhoods for the sake of your argument? Anyway…
1762717779242.jpeg
Well, doesn’t start with a “Y” but Palestinian Fedayeen insurgency (1950s–1960s) – Palestinian attacks and reprisal operations carried out by the Israel Defense Forces during the 1950s and 1960s. These actions were in response to constant fedayeen incursions during which Arab guerrillas infiltrated from Syria, Egypt, and Jordan into Israel to carry out attacks against Israeli civilians and soldiers. The policy of the reprisal operations was exceptional due to Israel's declared aim of getting a high 'blood cost' among the enemy side which was believed to be necessary in order to deter them from committing future attacks. If this all starts with all those nations & militias dog piling on Israel in 1948, then doesn’t that undermine what you’re trying to claim from the very beginning?
I keep hearing how they've been attacked hundreds of thousands of times.
Where do you keep hearing that “they” have been attacked hundreds of thousands of times? Serious question here.
Yup you can and I could have said "since reality set in".
Ok? So, with these hundreds of thousands of times thing above again?
Everyday there is a new boogeyman under the Zionist bed.
Ok? These hundreds of thousands of times again, etc…?
 

petros

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How wide is the river that runs beside the Pentagon? Potomac I mean? Perhaps somebody that actually lives in that neighbourhood (let’s call it general vicinity) can answer this question better than either of us.
  • Geographical location: The Pentagon is in Arlington, Virginia, separated from Washington, D.C. by the Potomac River.
  • Urban context: It is located in the urban area of Arlington, adjacent to the neighborhood of Pentagon City, which is known for its businesses and retail.
  • Proximity to D.C.: It is very close to downtown Washington, D.C., about a 15-minute metro ride from the White House and National Mall, and accessible via several bridges across the Potomac.
  • Transportation hub: The building is served by its own Metro station, the Pentagon Station on the Blue and Yellow lines, and the Pentagon Transit Center for buses.
  • Regional context: It is part of the broader Washington Metropolitan Region (DMV), which includes the District of Columbia and parts of Maryland and Virginia.


In the modern context of warfare, how far does the Pentagon need to be away from urban neighbourhoods for the sake of your argument? Anyway…
Was the Kirya(levelled by Iran) the Pentagon?

Where is the Kirya located now?

13 years ago it was an issue of concern.
1000003863.jpg

In case you missed it the first time check out the video from the human shield taken from his neighbouring apartment.

View attachment 31923
Well, doesn’t start with a “Y” but Palestinian Fedayeen insurgency (1950s–1960s) – Palestinian attacks and reprisal operations carried out by the Israel Defense Forces during the 1950s and 1960s. These actions were in response to constant fedayeen incursions during which Arab guerrillas infiltrated from Syria, Egypt, and Jordan into Israel to carry out attacks against Israeli civilians and soldiers. The policy of the reprisal operations was exceptional due to Israel's declared aim of getting a high 'blood cost' among the enemy side which was believed to be necessary in order to deter them from committing future attacks. If this all starts with all those nations & militias dog piling on Israel in 1948, then doesn’t that undermine what you’re trying to claim from the very beginning?
Which States sanctioned that? All of them?

Ok? These hundreds of thousands of times again, etc…?
I cant be like Bibi and make preposterous claims?
 
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