The New York Declaration.

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
118,650
14,569
113
Low Earth Orbit
That’s why that 12 1/2 minute video was interesting. It goes into some of the methodology, sources, etc…
A little fact check on his unicef claim was BS. He said they state 50,000 dead below is what they cleary state. He must read casualties are deaths rather than reality of dead and wounded combined.

So yeah, hasbara.


UNICEF Reports on Children Deaths in Gaza
According to UNICEF's most recent detailed humanitarian situation report (covering July 2025), at least 17,000 children have been killed in Gaza since the escalation of hostilities began on 7 October 2023. This figure includes 2,529 children killed since the ceasefire breakdown on 18 March 2025. Additionally, more than 45,000 children have been injured over the same period, bringing the total number of children killed or injured to over 62,000. These numbers are based on reports from Gaza's Ministry of Health and other verified sources, though UNICEF notes that the true toll is likely higher due to thousands of children still missing under barney rubble.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
30,039
11,142
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
So you watched it. Cool. Good for you.
But…Izz al-Din al-Haddad is thought to believe the plan was designed to finish Hamas, whether the group accepts it or not, and so is determined to fight on.

US President Donald Trump's 20-point framework to end the war - which has already been accepted by Israel - stipulates that Hamas disarm and have no future role in governing Gaza, so…yeah.
"Hamas is either going to be doing it or not, and if it’s not, it’s going to be a very sad end," Trump said as he left the White House. Asked whether there was scope for further talks on the proposal, he replied: "Not much."
1759412535989.jpeg
(YouTube & ‘They’ll play for time’: Hamas ‘divided’ over Trump's peace deal)

Anyway, back to the New York Declaration & Trumps 20 point peace plan, etc…
Does Hamas agree with this? Are they willing to play along?
Once all Israeli hostages have been returned, then Hamas members who commit to peaceful co-existence and to decommission their weapons will be given amnesty. Members of Hamas who wish to leave Gaza will be provided safe passage to receiving countries.
This gives everyone a chance to see if this is really about Palestine, or really about Hamas. Hamas says that releasing all 48 hostages within 72 hours, as laid out in the Trump plan, would be difficult because it has lost contact in recent weeks with some other militant groups holding a number of them, the mediators said…and they conveniently misplace and find these hostages, depending on what they want or don’t want. Interesting….
Hamas and other factions agree to not have any role in the governance of Gaza, directly, indirectly, or in any form. All military, terror, and offensive infrastructure, including tunnels and weapon production facilities, will be destroyed and not rebuilt.
The militant group has told mediators it has reservations about some of the terms of the 20-point plan, including the stipulation that it disarm and destroy its weapons, a demand it has previously rejected.
There will be a process of demilitarization of Gaza under the supervision of independent monitors, which will include placing weapons permanently beyond use through an agreed process of decommissioning, and supported by an internationally funded buy back and reintegration program all verified by the independent monitors. New Gaza will be fully committed to building a prosperous economy and to peaceful coexistence with their neighbors.
Etc…The U.S.-designated terrorist organization is also under pressure from leaders in Doha, Cairo and Turkey’s Ankara, the capitals with which it has the closest ties, to accept the terms of the agreement.

Over the past few days, all three nations have warned the group’s leaders that this is their last chance to end the war in Gaza, the mediators said. They have told Hamas that if the group rejects the Trump deal, it will no longer receive diplomatic support from them, the officials said.
What makes you think Hamas is the problem in this ending?
Hamas’ military leadership in Gaza and political officials in Doha have often disagreed on the group’s response to previous proposals to end the war, with those in the enclave usually taking on a hawkish view. That has resulted in the militant group rejecting offers.

Mediators say Ezzedin al-Haddad, who took over as Gaza boss after Israel killed the Sinwar brothers, Yahya and Mohammed, is more amenable to a deal. Still, divisions within Hamas’ leadership—both inside Gaza and Doha—could undermine the implementation of an agreement even if one is reached, mediators warned.

Meanwhile, the Islamist group is facing a cash crunch that is making it harder for it to pay its members—weakening its command and control over its rank and file, The Wall Street Journal has reported.
1759409000226.jpeg
Palestinians in Gaza are demanding a reprieve from the fighting, which has killed more than 66,000 people, according to local (Hamas controlled) health authorities, who don’t specify how many were combatants. 🙄

Hundreds of thousands have been displaced multiple times by the war, which began after Hamas attacked southern Israel on Oct. 7, 2023, killing about 1,200 people and taking around 250 hostage.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
30,039
11,142
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
Israel has accepted a new U.S. proposal announced this week to end the war that demands Hamas surrender. U.S. President Donald Trump, who said he would temporarily oversee governance of Gaza under the plan, has given Hamas a few days to respond, and warned Hamas that Israel would continue its siege of Gaza if the group refused.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
30,039
11,142
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
The 20 points that U.S. President Donald Trump announced this week under his plan to end the war in Gaza were not in line with a draft presented to him by a group of Muslim-majority countries, Pakistani Foreign Minister Ishaq Dar said on Friday.
1759493356082.jpeg
The group had proposed a full Israeli withdrawal from Gaza during a September 22 meeting with Trump, whereas his plan envisages a partial Israeli pullback to prepare for a release of remaining hostages held by Palestinian Hamas militants.
1759492961086.jpeg
"I have made it clear that these 20 points which Trump has made public are ... not the same as ours.
I say that some changes have been made in it, in the draft we had," Dar said in remarks to Pakistani lawmakers.

Trump on Monday published a 20-point blueprint for ending the war between Israel and Hamas under which all hostages, living and dead, would be returned within 72 hours of a ceasefire. It refers to a redeveloped "New Gaza" in future.

The plan leaves many details for negotiators to hash out and hinges on acceptance by Hamas, which killed over 1,200 people in its October 7, 2023 attack on Israel and took 251 hostages, according to Israeli tallies. Israel's subsequent war in Gaza has killed over 66,000 Palestinians and widely demolished the small enclave, according to (Hamas run & controlled) Gaza health authorities.

Pakistani Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif had earlier welcomed Trump's plan. Sharif while in transit had given a general response to Trump's broader social media post, Dar said.

Trump unveiled his plan a week after meeting leaders of eight Muslim nations - Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Egypt, Jordan, Turkey, Indonesia and Pakistan - to discuss the situation in Gaza.

The Trump administration wants Arab and Muslim countries to agree to send military forces to Gaza to enable Israel's withdrawal and to secure funding for transition and rebuilding programs, Axios reported.
1759494262823.jpeg
The Trump plan said all military operations would be suspended and battle lines frozen in Gaza until conditions were met for a "complete staged withdrawal" of Israeli forces.

Hamas would have to disarm under Trump's plan and on Tuesday he gave the Islamist group three to four days to accept it…and that was now five days ago.

The plan envisages a "Board of Peace" of international overseers led by Trump himself and including former British prime minister Tony Blair in an undefined role.

Gaza would get a temporary, transitional government consisting of a "technocratic, apolitical" committee made up of Palestinians and international experts.
The plan is far-reaching in that it contains clauses that define how the war should end as well as how the hostages return, Israel withdraws, humanitarian assistance grows, and Gaza is governed after the war. It includes a commitment to pursue Palestinian independence, dependent on serious Palestinian reform.

Palestinian statehood is hard for Netanyahu and his allies to swallow, but he seems to be thrilled that the plan validates the principles decided by the Israeli security cabinet. There is nothing for Hamas in the plan other than the need to swallow the bitter pill of defeat, disarmament, and removal from power.

The plan calls for certain actions within 72 hours—the release of hostages, the end of combat, the beginning of Israeli withdrawal. Can these take place simply on the basis of Trump’s fiat? Would Israel begin withdrawing before Hamas starts disarming?

It is ironic, if nothing else, that Israel’s strike on the Hamas senior leadership in Doha, Qatar, on Sept. 9 helped set the stage for this peace plan as well a new security accord between the Trump administration and Qatar.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
30,039
11,142
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
Trump wrote on his Truth Social platform on Friday that an agreement must be reached by 18:00 Washington time (22:00 GMT) on Sunday.

Arab and Turkish mediators are understood to be pressing Hamas for a positive response to the proposal, but a senior Hamas figure has said the armed group is likely to reject it.🤔

"If this LAST CHANCE agreement is not reached, all HELL, like no one has ever seen before, will break out against Hamas. THERE WILL BE PEACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST ONE WAY OR THE OTHER," Trump wrote in the Truth Social post, etc…
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
60,799
9,739
113
Washington DC
"If this LAST CHANCE agreement is not reached, all HELL, like no one has ever seen before, will break out against Hamas. THERE WILL BE PEACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST ONE WAY OR THE OTHER," Trump wrote in the Truth Social post, etc…
To which the residents of Hiroshima, Dresden, and Nagasaki replied "That's pretty big talk for a one-eyed fat man."
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ron in Regina

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
30,039
11,142
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
1759539407924.jpeg
“And Survey Says….” President Donald Trump told Israel on Friday to immediately stop bombing Gaza after Hamas agreed to release hostages and “some other terms” (?) in a U.S. plan to end the war, but “vexing issues like disarmament appeared unresolved?”??
1759544055182.jpeg
Hamas on Friday issued its response to Trump's 20-point plan after the president gave the Palestinian militant group until Sunday to accept or face grave consequences. Trump said he believed Hamas had showed it was "ready for a lasting PEACE" and he put the onus on Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's government.

"Israel must immediately stop the bombing of Gaza, so that we can get the Hostages out safely and quickly!" Trump wrote on his Truth Social platform."We are already in discussions on details to be worked out. This is not about Gaza alone, this is about long sought PEACE in the Middle East."

According to residents, Israeli tanks bombarded Talateeni Street, a major artery in the heart of Gaza City, after Trump's message to Israel to stop.

Witnesses said Israeli military planes also intensified bombing in Gaza City in the hour after Hamas issued its statement, hitting several houses in the Remal neighborhood.

But Israel's parliamentary opposition leader Yair Lapid urged Netanyahu to move forward with the plan. In a post on X he said: "Israel should announce it is joining the discussions led by the president to finalize the details of the deal."

Families of those being held by Hamas in Gaza called on Netanyahu "to immediately order negotiations for the return of all hostages."

Domestically, the prime minister is caught between growing pressure to end the war — from hostage families and a war-weary public — and demands from hardline members of his far-right coalition who insist there must be no let-up in Israel’s campaign in Gaza.
Hamas, in a copy of its response seen by Reuters, did not say that it would disarm and demilitarize Gaza — something Israel and the U.S. want but Hamas has rejected before.

It also did not agree to an Israeli withdrawal in stages, as opposed to the immediate, full withdrawal Hamas demands.

A senior Hamas official told Al Jazeera that the group would not disarm before Israel's occupation of the enclave ends, comments that underscored the gap between the parties as the war approaches its two-year mark in a few days.

Trump's plan specifies an immediate ceasefire, an exchange of all hostages held by Hamas for Palestinian prisoners held by Israel, a staged Israeli withdrawal from Gaza, the disarmament of Hamas and the introduction of a transitional government led by an international body.

In its response to Trump's plan, Hamas said it "appreciates the Arab, Islamic, and international efforts, as well as the efforts of U.S. President Donald Trump, calling for an end to the war on the Gaza Strip, the exchange of prisoners, (and) the immediate entry of aid," among other terms.

It said it was announcing its "approval of releasing all occupation prisoners — both living and remains — according to the exchange formula contained in President Trump’s proposal, with the necessary field conditions for implementing the exchange."

But…but Hamas added: "In this context, the movement affirms its readiness to immediately enter, through the mediators, into negotiations to discuss the details."

The group said it was ready "to hand over the administration of the Gaza Strip to a Palestinian body of independents (technocrats) based on Palestinian national consensus and supported by Arab and Islamic backing."

But…but Hamas did not make clear whether it would agree to Trump‘s proposal that it be barred from exercising political power in Gaza. But the group said it should be "included and will contribute" to any Palestinian national discussion on Gaza's future. Oh yeah…
Trump’s plan called for an immediate end to fighting in Gaza, an exchange of hostages and Palestinian prisoners within 72 hours of the deal’s signing, a gradual withdrawal of Israeli forces from Gaza, the disarmament of Hamas and a transitional authority led by Trump.
(YouTube & NEW: Hamas to not follow Trump’s hostage release condition)
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
30,039
11,142
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
So, out of these 20 points in that Trump Peace Plan that Hamas had to agree to by some arbitrary time limit on Sunday, what have they ‘actually’ agreed to?
1759581614162.jpeg
Hamas, in a copy of its response seen by Reuters, did not say that it would disarm and demilitarize Gaza — something Israel and the U.S. want but Hamas has rejected before.
A Hamas senior representative in Doha, Osama Hamdan, told Al Araby TV following the announcement that Hamas will not accept foreign governorship of the enclave, and that it must be run by Palestinians, even transitionally.
But…but Hamas did not make clear whether it would agree to Trump‘s proposal that it be barred from exercising political power in Gaza. But the group said it should be "included and will contribute" to any Palestinian national discussion on Gaza's future. Oh yeah…
So, are we back to Hamas will release some of the Holocaustages (living, dead, etc…) for exchange of 2000-ish prisoners held in Israeli prisons, 250 serving life sentences, and thats pretty much about it?
1759582916329.jpeg
The U.S. president said there is little scope for negotiation on the deal and that he was only waiting for 'one signature' - meaning Hamas.

'We have one signature that we need, and that signature will pay in hell if they don’t sign,' he said on Tuesday.
So…which is it? An ultimatum with little scope for negotiation (?) or a list of optional suggestions?

Trump’s near-immediate positive response to the Hamas statement was reportedly met with “surprise” by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, according to an unnamed Israeli official who spoke to Israel’s Channel 12. Netanyahu had held a deliberation on the Hamas response to Trump’s plan before the U.S. President published his Truth Social statement. According to Channel 12, the Israeli Prime Minister considered the Hamas response a rejection of Trump’s framework.

Hamas’s response didn’t accept the clause in Trump’s plan about forming a “board of peace” headed by the U.S. President, the widely-reported potential participation of former British Prime Minister Tony Blair, and didn’t accept the deployment of international and Arab forces to “demilitarize” Gaza. Most importantly, the statement made no mention of the demand for Hamas and other resistance factions in Gaza to disarm.
So what happens Sunday at 6pm Washington time?
Did Hamas agree (?) or not agree (?) to Trumps 20 point peace plan?

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel has declared his support for the plan, telling reporters on Monday that if Hamas did not accept it, then Israel would continue with its campaign in Gaza and “finish the job by itself.” ???
Palestinian Islamic Jihad, a hardline ally of Hamas that also holds hostages, on Saturday endorsed the group's response to a U.S. plan to end the war in Gaza – a move that could help pave the way for the release of Israelis still held by both parties.

"Hamas' (reaction) to Trump's plan represents the position of the Palestinian resistance factions, and the Islamic Jihad participated responsibly in the consultations that led to this decision," the group said.

Asked when talks on implementing the U.S. plan would begin, a Hamas official told Reuters "things have yet to be arranged".

"What is important is that Netanyahu does not sabotage this, because now that Hamas agreed (to something, maybe the 20 point peace plan, or maybe to something else?), Netanyahu will disagree, as he usually does," said Jerusalem resident Jamal Shihada???
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
118,650
14,569
113
Low Earth Orbit
So you watched it. Cool. Good for you.
But…Izz al-Din al-Haddad is thought to believe the plan was designed to finish Hamas, whether the group accepts it or not, and so is determined to fight on.

US President Donald Trump's 20-point framework to end the war - which has already been accepted by Israel - stipulates that Hamas disarm and have no future role in governing Gaza, so…yeah.

View attachment 31386
(YouTube & ‘They’ll play for time’: Hamas ‘divided’ over Trump's peace deal)

Anyway, back to the New York Declaration & Trumps 20 point peace plan, etc…


This gives everyone a chance to see if this is really about Palestine, or really about Hamas. Hamas says that releasing all 48 hostages within 72 hours, as laid out in the Trump plan, would be difficult because it has lost contact in recent weeks with some other militant groups holding a number of them, the mediators said…and they conveniently misplace and find these hostages, depending on what they want or don’t want. Interesting….

The militant group has told mediators it has reservations about some of the terms of the 20-point plan, including the stipulation that it disarm and destroy its weapons, a demand it has previously rejected.

Etc…The U.S.-designated terrorist organization is also under pressure from leaders in Doha, Cairo and Turkey’s Ankara, the capitals with which it has the closest ties, to accept the terms of the agreement.

Over the past few days, all three nations have warned the group’s leaders that this is their last chance to end the war in Gaza, the mediators said. They have told Hamas that if the group rejects the Trump deal, it will no longer receive diplomatic support from them, the officials said.

Hamas’ military leadership in Gaza and political officials in Doha have often disagreed on the group’s response to previous proposals to end the war, with those in the enclave usually taking on a hawkish view. That has resulted in the militant group rejecting offers.

Mediators say Ezzedin al-Haddad, who took over as Gaza boss after Israel killed the Sinwar brothers, Yahya and Mohammed, is more amenable to a deal. Still, divisions within Hamas’ leadership—both inside Gaza and Doha—could undermine the implementation of an agreement even if one is reached, mediators warned.

Meanwhile, the Islamist group is facing a cash crunch that is making it harder for it to pay its members—weakening its command and control over its rank and file, The Wall Street Journal has reported.
View attachment 31385
Palestinians in Gaza are demanding a reprieve from the fighting, which has killed more than 66,000 people, according to local (Hamas controlled) health authorities, who don’t specify how many were combatants. 🙄

Hundreds of thousands have been displaced multiple times by the war, which began after Hamas attacked southern Israel on Oct. 7, 2023, killing about 1,200 people and taking around 250 hostage.
Eliminate Al-Qassam or eliminate Hamas?

Did you not notice this line in the article above?

Hamas’ military leadership in Gaza and political officials in Doha have often disagreed on the group’s response to previous proposals to end the war, with those in the enclave usually taking on a hawkish view. That has resulted in the militant group rejecting offers.

Hamas is Govt al Qassam is military.

The article above delineates the between the Govt and Al Qassam but never names al Qassam by name. The Hasbara never ends.

The nitty-gritty on this says al Qassam is standing up for the innocent civilians that built and ran the infrastructure, health, education, justice, agriculture, international trade who have never in their life picked up a weapon with intent.

Do you have a good reason not to do some vetting of the Govt putting them on the Trump board game and rehiring the people who ran shit under the secular PA then Hamas and now potentially the Trump board game.

Would you be happy if they changed their name to PRP (Palestinian Republican Party) as secular with Christian and Muzzie principals as it is in the West Bank? There isn't a shortage of highly educated Christian Palestinians many whom fled and would love to go home. Gaza needs balance.

Why shouldn't they have say to prevent a free for all from developers with shady backgrounds and intent?

"Put that pencil down or I'll blow your fucking brains out then bomb your children at home too".

Its not my fault Canadian Gen X didn't make new Christians to keep Muzzies in check which now makes a bunch of xenophobes out those who abandoned their Religion.
 
Last edited:

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
30,039
11,142
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
Eliminate Al-Qassam or eliminate Hamas?
Al-Quassam is a division of what group again? The Mormon Tabernacle Choir?
Hamas is Govt al Qassam is military.
Al Qassam is the military for whom?
1759592171383.jpeg
The Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades are an integral part of Hamas.
Why do want to kill pencil pushers and wrench pullers who are necessity in rebuilding? Are they trigger pullers?
Hamas and other factions agree to not have any role in the governance of Gaza, directly, indirectly, or in any form. All military, terror, and offensive infrastructure, including tunnels and weapon production facilities, will be destroyed and not rebuilt.
Necessary that they don’t have a role in the governance of Gaza? That kind of necessary?
There will be a process of demilitarization of Gaza under the supervision of independent monitors, which will include placing weapons permanently beyond use through an agreed process of decommissioning, and supported by an internationally funded buy back and reintegration program all verified by the independent monitors. New Gaza will be fully committed to building a prosperous economy and to peaceful coexistence with their neighbors.
Trump on Monday published a 20-point blueprint for ending the war between Israel and Hamas under which all hostages, living and dead, would be returned within 72 hours of a ceasefire. It refers to a redeveloped "New Gaza" in future.
Is Trumps peace plan between Israel and el Kabong (?) or Israeli and Hamas (with el Quassam as a division of Hamas)?
The plan leaves many details for negotiators to hash out and hinges on acceptance by Hamas, which killed over 1,200 people in its October 7, 2023 attack on Israel and took 251 hostages, according to Israeli tallies.
Hamas, in a copy of its response seen by Reuters, did not say that it would disarm and demilitarize Gaza — something Israel and the U.S. want but Hamas has rejected before.
Trump's plan specifies an immediate ceasefire, an exchange of all hostages held by Hamas for Palestinian prisoners held by Israel, a staged Israeli withdrawal from Gaza, the disarmament of Hamas and the introduction of a transitional government led by an international body.
A Hamas senior representative in Doha, Osama Hamdan, told Al Araby TV following the announcement that Hamas will not accept foreign governorship of the enclave, and that it must be run by Palestinians, even transitionally.
Are you trying to say that Al-Qassam are not the military division of Hamas? Is that where you’re going here? If these are separate entities, why is Trump/America offering this 20 point piece plan to…Hamas? Why are Qatar & Egypt ‘mediating’ between Israel and….Hamas?
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
30,039
11,142
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Saturday that he hoped to bring home the hostages being held by Hamas in a matter of days, as negotiators headed to Cairo for talks aimed at putting an end to nearly two years of war against whom in Gaza?

US President Donald Trump warned he would "not tolerate delay" from the Palestinian militant group, after it responded positively to his roadmap for freeing the captives and administering post-war Gaza.

Netanyahu credited "military and diplomatic pressure" with compelling Hamas to agree to release the captives in a televised statement on Saturday.

"I hope that in the coming days we will be able to bring back all our hostages... during the Sukkot holidays," Netanyahu said, referring to the Jewish festival that begins on Monday and runs for one week.

The premier added he had ordered negotiators to Egypt "to finalise the technical details", with Cairo confirming it would also be hosting a delegation from Hamas for talks on "the ground conditions and details of the exchange of all Israeli detainees and Palestinian prisoners" as per Trump's proposal.

On Friday night, Hamas announced "its approval for the release of all hostages -- living and remains -- according to the exchange formula included in President Trump's proposal".

Trump immediately hailed the statement as evidence the group (which group was that again?) was "ready for a lasting PEACE", calling on Israel to stop its bombing.

On Saturday, he warned the group (?) to "move quickly" towards a deal "or else all bets will be off".

Netanyahu, meanwhile, insisted in his remarks Saturday that "Hamas will be disarmed... either diplomatically via Trump's plan or militarily by us".

A Hamas official said Egypt, a mediator in the truce talks, would host a conference for Palestinian factions to decide on post-war plans for Gaza.

In its response to the Trump plan, Hamas had insisted it should have a say in the territory's future.

The plan stipulates that Hamas and other factions "not have any role in the governance of Gaza", while also calling for a halt to hostilities, the release of hostages within 72 hours, a gradual Israeli withdrawal from Gaza and Hamas’s disarmament.

The war was triggered by Hamas’s October 7, 2023 attack on Israel, which resulted in the deaths of 1,219 people, mostly civilians, according to an AFP tally of Israeli official figures.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
30,039
11,142
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said he hopes to announce the release of hostages being held in Gaza "in the coming days".🤞

In a televised statement, he also said "Hamas will be disarmed and Gaza will be demilitarised – either the easy way or the hard way, but it will be achieved"? Those seem to be consistent Israeli ‘red lines.’

The comments came after Hamas released a statement on Friday in which it agreed to free the hostages under a US peace plan, but did not mention disarmament and sought negotiations on other issues.🤔

Indirect ceasefire talks between the parties are set to start in Egypt on Monday. US President Donald Trump said he would "not tolerate delay" from Hamas to complete a deal. In a post on his Truth Social platform, Trump said: "Hamas must move quickly, or else all bets will be off... Let's get this done, FAST." Etc…
1759671216962.jpeg
He later posted that Israel "has agreed to the initial withdrawal line", seeming to refer to various lines of Israeli troop withdrawal published alongside the US plan.
1759671266593.jpeg
The 20-point plan proposes an immediate end to fighting and the release of 20 living Israeli hostages held by Hamas - as well as the remains of those thought to be dead - in exchange for hundreds (over 19 hundreds at the current exchange rate) of detained “Gazans?”

I’m still confused. Have Hamas (and its divisions) accepted Trumps 20 point peace plan or not? I guess we find out about 6pm Washington time today then? Is cherry-picking 6-8 of 20 points maybe considered accepting the 20 point peace plan? If this were a test, would 30%-48% be a pass?
 

Dixie Cup

Senate Member
Sep 16, 2006
6,397
4,053
113
Edmonton
What is it?


AI Overview

The "New York Declaration" refers to the New York Declaration on the Peaceful Settlement of the Question of Palestine and the Implementation of the Two-State Solution, adopted on July 29, 2025, at a United Nations High-Level International Conference in New York.

Co-chaired by France and Saudi Arabia, with working groups led by Brazil, Canada, Egypt, Indonesia, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Jordan, Mexico, Norway, Qatar, Senegal, Spain, Türkiye, the United Kingdom, the European Union, and the League of Arab States, it emerged amid escalating tensions in the Middle East following the October 7, 2023, Hamas attacks and the ensuing Gaza conflict.

The declaration outlines a roadmap for ending the Israeli-Palestinian conflict through a two-state solution, emphasizing immediate ceasefires, humanitarian aid, and long-term peace mechanisms.

On September 12, 2025, the UN General Assembly endorsed the declaration via Resolution A/80/L.1/Rev.1, with 142 votes in favor, 10 against (including Israel and the United States), and 12 abstentions.

This endorsement marks a significant multilateral push for Palestinian statehood but has faced criticism from Israel and the U.S. as a "publicity stunt" that undermines direct negotiations and benefits Hamas.

Key Commitments and Provisions

The 42-paragraph declaration, supported by an annex from eight working groups, addresses immediate crises and structural reforms.

Core elements include:

Immediate Humanitarian and Security Measures:

Calls for an immediate and unconditional ceasefire in Gaza, the release of all hostages held by Hamas, and the end to Israeli military operations.

Demands unrestricted humanitarian access to Gaza, including the lifting of the blockade, and condemns settler violence in the West Bank.

Urges protection of civilians, journalists, and aid workers, with accountability for violations of international humanitarian law.

Political and Governance Reforms:

Welcomes Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas's pledge for democratic elections across the Occupied Palestinian Territory (including East Jerusalem) within one year, under international oversight, adhering to the PLO platform, UN resolutions, and the principle of "One State, One Government, One Law, and One Gun."

Supports Palestinian unity and the establishment of a single, reformed Palestinian Authority with inclusive governance.

Economic and Access Reforms:

Demands removal of movement and access restrictions, release of withheld Palestinian tax revenues, and revision of the 1994 Paris Protocol on Economic Relations.

Advocates for Palestinian integration into the global financial system, including sustainable banking relations and ownership over taxation.

Two-State Solution Framework:

Reaffirms UN resolutions (e.g., 242, 338) for a sovereign Palestinian state on 1967 borders with East Jerusalem as its capital, alongside Israel's security.

Commits to halting settlement expansion, addressing Jerusalem's status, and ensuring refugee rights (including references to the "right of return," which Israel views as existential threat).

Outlines a timeline for negotiations, with international guarantees for implementation.

The declaration positions itself as an "actionable framework" to revive stalled peace processes, building on prior initiatives like the Oslo Accords and Arab Peace Initiative.

Reactions and Implications
Supporters: Proponents, including France and Arab states, hail it as a "bold, comprehensive" step toward justice and stability, filling gaps in international responsibility.

Critics:

Israel called it "theatre" and a misuse of the UN, arguing it ignores Hamas's role and weakens direct talks. The U.S. echoed this, labeling it a "gift to Hamas" that prolongs the war and includes unacceptable provisions like refugee returns.

Broader Context:

Adopted just weeks before the current date (September 23, 2025), the declaration's conference resumes in late September, with ongoing debates on enforcement amid continued violence in Gaza and the West Bank.

This document represents a rare consensus among diverse stakeholders but its success hinges on implementation amid geopolitical divides. For the full text, see the UN's official document A/CONF.243/2025/1.
Won't happen. Hamas won't allow it. They want Israel to be GONE!!
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
30,039
11,142
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
Won't happen. Hamas won't allow it. They want Israel to be GONE!!
It might. Maybe.🤞. We’ll get to see if this is really about Palestine or if it’s really about Hamas regardless. Negotiators are due to hold talks in the Egyptian resort town of Sharm El-Sheikh, with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu expressing hope that hostages held in Gaza could be released within days.
1759675435480.jpeg
Netanyahu said Saturday he had instructed negotiators to go to Egypt "to finalise the technical details", while Cairo confirmed it would also be hosting a delegation from Hamas for talks on "the ground conditions and details of the exchange of all Israeli detainees and Palestinian prisoners".

An Israeli government spokesperson said the country's delegation would be leaving Sunday evening, with talks slated to start Monday -- the eve of the second anniversary of the October 7, 2023 Hamas attack that sparked the war.
(YouTube & HAMAS “may” have agreed to Trumps ultimatum to release the Israeli hostages)

"During communications with mediators, Hamas insisted that it is essential for Israel to halt military operations across all areas of the Gaza Strip, cease all air, reconnaissance(?), and drone activity(?), and withdraw from inside Gaza City," a Palestinian source close to Hamas said, adding the group would "also halt their military operations" in parallel.
According to Trump's plan, in return for the hostages, Israel is expected to release 250 Palestinian prisoners with life sentences and more than 1,700 detainees from the Gaza Strip who were arrested after the war began.

But Trump has warned he will "not tolerate delay" from Hamas, urging the group to move quickly towards a deal "or else all bets will be off".
I’m still confused. Have Hamas (and its divisions) accepted Trumps 20 point peace plan or not? I guess we find out about 6pm Washington time today then? Is cherry-picking 6-8 of 20 points maybe considered accepting the 20 point peace plan? If this were a test, would 30%-48% be a pass?
Hamas has insisted it should have a say in the territory's future, though Trump's roadmap stipulates that it and other factions "not have any role in the governance of Gaza".

The plan also calls for a halt to hostilities, the release of hostages within 72 hours, a gradual Israeli withdrawal from Gaza and Hamas’s disarmament -- something the group has frequently described as a red line in the past.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
118,650
14,569
113
Low Earth Orbit
Al-Quassam is a division of what group again? The Mormon Tabernacle Choir?

Al Qassam is the military for whom?
View attachment 31418
The Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades are an integral part of Hamas.


Necessary that they don’t have a role in the governance of Gaza? That kind of necessary?


Is Trumps peace plan between Israel and el Kabong (?) or Israeli and Hamas (with el Quassam as a division of Hamas)?




Are you trying to say that Al-Qassam are not the military division of Hamas? Is that where you’re going here? If these are separate entities, why is Trump/America offering this 20 point piece plan to…Hamas? Why are Qatar & Egypt ‘mediating’ between Israel and….Hamas?
You arent curious why al Qassam isn't mentioned? There are the trigger pullers in Hamas or al Qassam? Its word games to fuck with your head.

So who is going to run the place? Did they do and bad job of running Gaza?

So nobody gets a say in who is buying their land? Who is building? Who the librarian is or who is going to rebuild the education and health system.. So no democracy for Gaza. That's fucking great. I doubt they want christian Zionists buying the place up in a free for all.

This is pretty much the first time in recent history there has been a call for a 100% purge of the civil sector.

What the fuck are you thinking?


Maniacal at best.
 
Last edited:

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
118,650
14,569
113
Low Earth Orbit
Here is nice timeline of events that lead to the Oct 7 attack on Israel according to the ICC investigation into Israeli settler and Hamas

Key Milestones (2014–2025)
The investigation evolved through several phases, with West Bank settlements and settler activities consistently within scope due to the territorial jurisdiction confirmed in 2021.

Below is a chronological summary:

June 13, 2014: Temporal jurisdiction begins, marking the start of the relevant period for crimes in the West Bank and Gaza.

January–April 2015: Palestine declares acceptance of ICC jurisdiction over crimes in the occupied territories since June 13, 2014, and accedes to the Rome Statute. The ICC Prosecutor opens a preliminary examination (ICC-01/18) to assess jurisdiction, admissibility, and interests of justice.

May 2018: Palestine formally refers the situation to the ICC Prosecutor without a specified end date, broadening the scope to ongoing crimes, including settlement expansion and settler violence in the West Bank.

December 20, 2019: Prosecutor Fatou Bensouda announces the preliminary examination's conclusion, finding reasonable basis to proceed with a full investigation into alleged crimes by all parties, including Israeli settlement policies and settler attacks.

February 5, 2021: Pre-Trial Chamber I rules that the ICC has jurisdiction over the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and Gaza, explicitly covering settlement-related activities.

March 3, 2021: The investigation officially opens under Prosecutor Karim Khan, targeting potential war crimes such as settlement construction and violence by Israeli forces and settlers against Palestinians.

November 2023–January 2024: Additional referrals from six states (South Africa, Bangladesh, Bolivia, Comoros, Djibouti in November 2023; Chile and Mexico in January 2024) reinforce the probe, extending to post-October 7, 2023, hostilities, including a surge in West Bank settler violence (over 1,200 attacks recorded in 2023–2024).

May 20, 2024: Prosecutor Khan applies for arrest warrants against Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, former Defense Minister Yoav Gallant, and Hamas military commander Mohammed Deif for crimes related to the Gaza conflict, including starvation as a method of warfare and extermination. While not settler-specific, the applications highlight systemic policies potentially linked to West Bank dynamics.

November 21, 2024: Pre-Trial Chamber I issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Deif (the latter confirmed in absentia), rejecting Israel's challenges to jurisdiction. These mark the first ICC actions against Israeli leaders but do not address settlers directly; however, they underscore the Court's commitment to investigating occupation-related crimes.

2025 Developments:
January–March 2025: The investigation continues amid U.S. warnings to ICC member states against proceedings involving Israel, including potential sanctions. No settler warrants emerge, but reports note increased scrutiny of West Bank violence, with over 800 settler attacks in early 2025.

June 9, 2025: ICC issues a decision in a related procedural matter (ICC-01/18), though not directly on settlers.

July–September 2025: EU Parliament resolutions reference the ICC warrants and call for accountability in the West Bank; Al-Haq and other NGOs urge the Prosecutor to prioritize settler violence.

The UN updates its database on businesses involved in settlements, indirectly supporting ICC efforts. As of October 2025, the probe remains active, with Khan emphasizing comprehensive coverage of West Bank crimes, but no public advancements on individual settler cases.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
30,039
11,142
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
You arent curious why al Qassam isn't mentioned?
Aren’t you curious why the guy who’s suppose to have shot that Charlie Kirk guy, why the media wasn’t reporting about his right hand instead of the whole guy?
There are the trigger pullers in Hamas or al Qassam? It’s word games to fuck with your head.
It sure is, in the semantics of deflection and scapegoating, isn’t it? Maybe not in the way you’re interpreting things though, & I’m not sure just how many “wrench turners” you’re pointing out in Doha, but that’s neither here or there I guess.
So who is going to run the place? Did they do and bad job of running Gaza?
Define doing a bad job. Do you mean like extorting and embezzling the shit out of the population (?) in order to have those billionaires living in Qatar? Or stripping out the sewer system in order to build rockets to lob at Israel? Things like that?

Who’s gonna run the place? Well, not Hamas. The population is supposedly 2 million people, and they can vote in who they want to run the place, who in turn can hire non-Hamas pencil pushers, and engineers and wrench turners, etc…
So nobody gets a say in who is buying their land? Who is building? Who the librarian is or who is going to rebuild the education and health system..
Temporary bureaucracy from the outside, until the PA goes through its reforms (un-UNRWA’s itself), and that could be replaced, and with elections, they can bring in their own ‘Palestinian’ people. You don’t think the Palestinians are capable of having librarians or teachers that aren’t Hamas or UNRWA?
This is pretty much the first time in recent history there has been a call for a 100% purge of the civil sector.
It’s also the first time a peace might come about for Gaza by flushing Hamas from the equation. Coincidence? We’ll see if Hamas actually wants peace or not pretty soon.🤞

On that note, Monday Israel accepted Trumps 20 point peace plan, and Hamas on Friday sort of accepted 6-7 points, or parts of 6-7 points last I heard? Is that enough to pass that 6pm Washington DC deadline?
1759696799433.jpeg
1759696828438.jpeg
Activists demanded 'ceasefire now' of Israel, but seem unwilling to demand 'peace now' of Hamas? Isn’t that curious?
You arent curious why…
On social media, many Palestinians are asking Hamas publicly to endorse the Trump plan and put an end to their misery.

In deciding whether to accept all the plan’s 20 points, Hamas will, from its perspective, have to weigh whether agreeing to a very bad outcome is better than the alternative. Trump has warned that a failure to get on board will cause Hamas to face “all hell.”

Hamas has already agreed to release the remaining Israeli hostages and to relinquish power in Gaza to a technocratic Palestinian committee. If endorsed in full, this would put an end to the war and see the gradual Israeli withdrawal from Gaza, and no expulsion of the Palestinians out of Gaza.

Egypt, Qatar and Turkey have been facilitating Hamas’ response to the plan. And there is huge regional and international pressure to get the deal over the line.

However, it would force Hamas to disarm itself and allow the entry of an international and regional force into Gaza to oversee the destruction of military infrastructure, including tunnels, weapons manufacturing and the remaining rockets – points of the latest plan that Hamas appears more unwilling to accept.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dixie Cup

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
30,039
11,142
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
1759702597404.jpeg
Hamas’ response stopped well short of fully endorsing each of Trump’s twenty points, including critical ones like demanding Hamas disarm and destroy their weapons, and that it play no role in governing Gaza in the future.

Yet Trump chose to focus on what Hamas did agree to rather than what it didn’t. For him, the group’s declaration it was ready to release all the remaining hostages held since the October 7, 2023, terror attacks was enough.

His reaction, posted only an hour or so after Hamas released its six-paragraph reply, had the effect of preempting any response from Israel itself, including from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who Trump and his team had pushed to accept the peace plan in full earlier in the week.

In a statement from his office early Saturday, Netanyahu said that “Israel is preparing to immediately implement the first phase of Trump’s plan for the immediate release of all hostages.”

“We will continue to work in full cooperation with the president and his team to end the war in accordance with the principles set forth by Israel that are consistent with President Trump’s vision,” Netanyahu’s office said.

Hamas’s response drew a far more lukewarm response from even some of Trump’s staunchest allies.

“Hamas’ recent response to President Trump’s plan to end the war — which Israel had accepted — is unfortunately predictable. A classic ‘Yes, but,’” Graham wrote on X. “No disarmament, keeping Gaza under Palestinian control, and tying hostage release to negotiations, along with other problems. This is, in essence, a rejection by Hamas of President Trump’s ‘take it or leave it’ proposal.”

Ultimately, the response that arrived could have provided Trump an opening to declare Hamas intransigent, and green-light Israel escalating its assault — as he said he would do if Hamas rejected the plan.

But Trump, in looking past the areas where Hamas appeared to differ with the plan, put Netanyahu in the difficult position of either accepting the response positively, or risking angering his top international ally.
The movement's carefully crafted statement - thought to have been drafted with the help of mediators - stopped short of outright rejection and instead offered a qualified "yes".