April Fools!! Here's your Carbon Tax F#ckers!!!

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
27,898
10,385
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
(For Tec, “Here’s what Carney will replace the carbon tax with. Either way, you pay!”)

Canada’s Trump tariff nightmare is Mark Carney’s big opportunity to turn Canada into the climate Emerald City Carney’s always dreamed of. Good to know.

The bulk of Carney’s speech Friday was devoted to explaining to the crowd that the all the major issues that Canadians are facing are really wrapped into one big one — climate change.

According to Carney, addressing the problem of “helping hardworking families get ahead,” “boosting the competitiveness of Canadian companies,” and “building the strongest economy in the G7,” is all affected by “how Canadians play their part in addressing climate change.”

Carney then begins to make some confusing statements about whether or not the carbon tax was ever a good idea.

“Since Canada’s climate plan has become too divisive, it’s time for a new, more effective climate plan that everyone can get behind,” he said. “It’s a plan that makes our economy more competitive, it grows good jobs today, and it will grow better ones in the future. There are literally billions of dollars of investment on the table and millions of jobs at stake,” he continued.

It’s too bad Carney did not expand on the billions of investment dollars that are on the table and from whom, as I’m sure Canadians would like to know.
(Carney conveniently failed to mention how the carbon tax indirectly increases the costs of all the goods that Canadians buy, and not just fuel, which is directly taxed. He side-steps that question completely in favour of the argument that Canadians should remain dependant upon a Liberal government who issues cheques, instead of simply having their day-to-day costs and taxes lowered)

On top of this, Canada was producing only 1.5 per cent of worldwide carbon emissions as of 2023. This suggests that the punitive carbon tax that Carney and the Liberal Party supported up until now was never fair to consumers given our national and global footprint.

Does Canada sound like a country that needs to base its entire economic system on climate change? Or, do Canadians, perhaps have more pressing concerns they want dealt with, like cost of living, lower taxes, health care, crime, and an ongoing opioid crisis?
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
115,743
13,707
113
Low Earth Orbit
(For Tec, “Here’s what Carney will replace the carbon tax with. Either way, you pay!”)

Canada’s Trump tariff nightmare is Mark Carney’s big opportunity to turn Canada into the climate Emerald City Carney’s always dreamed of. Good to know.

The bulk of Carney’s speech Friday was devoted to explaining to the crowd that the all the major issues that Canadians are facing are really wrapped into one big one — climate change.

According to Carney, addressing the problem of “helping hardworking families get ahead,” “boosting the competitiveness of Canadian companies,” and “building the strongest economy in the G7,” is all affected by “how Canadians play their part in addressing climate change.”

Carney then begins to make some confusing statements about whether or not the carbon tax was ever a good idea.

“Since Canada’s climate plan has become too divisive, it’s time for a new, more effective climate plan that everyone can get behind,” he said. “It’s a plan that makes our economy more competitive, it grows good jobs today, and it will grow better ones in the future. There are literally billions of dollars of investment on the table and millions of jobs at stake,” he continued.

It’s too bad Carney did not expand on the billions of investment dollars that are on the table and from whom, as I’m sure Canadians would like to know.
(Carney conveniently failed to mention how the carbon tax indirectly increases the costs of all the goods that Canadians buy, and not just fuel, which is directly taxed. He side-steps that question completely in favour of the argument that Canadians should remain dependant upon a Liberal government who issues cheques, instead of simply having their day-to-day costs and taxes lowered)

On top of this, Canada was producing only 1.5 per cent of worldwide carbon emissions as of 2023. This suggests that the punitive carbon tax that Carney and the Liberal Party supported up until now was never fair to consumers given our national and global footprint.

Does Canada sound like a country that needs to base its entire economic system on climate change? Or, do Canadians, perhaps have more pressing concerns they want dealt with, like cost of living, lower taxes, health care, crime, and an ongoing opioid crisis?
Good thing Libs will be far from being opposition.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
27,898
10,385
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
Good thing Libs will be far from being opposition.
With Trudeau actually stepping down, if he actually steps down, the odds of the Liberals becoming the official opposition will go up.
1738381548545.jpegSo far Trudeau has only announced his intention to step down at a future date after the Liberals select a new Leader, while parliament is put on hold.
1738381469500.jpeg
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
27,898
10,385
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
Anywho, Mark Carney & the Carbon Tax(‘s). On Friday, Carney told enthralled Liberals as he announced his “new” climate change plan, “I’m not a politician. I’m becoming a politician, but I’m not a politician,” apparently unaware that this is exactly how politicians talk – in doubletalk.

Warming to his theme, he continued, “because I’m not a politician I don’t like press releases that are dressed up as policies” – even though the press release he put out accompanying his policy reversal on the carbon tax was literally a press release dressed up as a policy.

While loaded with aspirational language, it contained no data on Carney’s timelines for reducing industrial greenhouse gases, nothing about targets, nothing about costs, stating only that, “in the coming weeks we will outline major additional economic measures to strengthen the economy and ensure households are immediately better off, following the removal of the (carbon tax) rebate.”

Carney, like Trudeau in 2019 when he brought in the Liberals’ carbon tax, continues to insist there’s some magical formula out there – maybe it’s hidden in Never-Never Land or Narnia – in which the added, new cost of paying for industrial greenhouse gas emissions doesn’t end up being paid by the public, either in higher taxes or higher prices on consumer goods created using fossil fuel energy.

To the contrary, in this Never Never Land – insist both Trudeau and Carney – “big polluters” responsible for emissions don’t pass along their added costs imposed by government to the public?😳
This is similar to the logic of federal, provincial and municipal governments which ignore the cumulative costs they are imposing on Canadians, ostensibly to “fight climate change,” refusing to acknowledge the inescapable reality that in the end, there is only one taxpayer.🤫

In blaming Poilievre for the failure of the Liberals’ carbon tax debacle, Carney is implicitly blaming Canadians for falling for what he describes as Poilievre’s “lies.” So, Daddy Carney knows best & if you don’t believe what he believes, you’re a misogynistic hick with unacceptable views? That sounds sooo familiar for some reason…
1738453588780.jpegThis in turn, so this logic goes, prevented the Liberals’ from implementing their grand scheme to reduce emissions, even though that scheme has failed to reduce them to anywhere near the fantastical targets promised by the Liberals in a government that has never met a single emission target it has set for itself.

The underlying political philosophy of both Carney and Trudeau on this issue was perfectly explained three decades ago in the seminal work of the great American conservative thinker Thomas Sowell, who described the prevailing liberal vision of our time in his book, The Vision of the Anointed, Self-Congratulation as a Basis for Social Policy.

Followers of the vision, Sowell explained, consider themselves on a higher moral plane than their opponents, whom they consider not only wrong but motivated by evil intentions and that “problems exist because others are not as wise or as virtuous as the anointed.”

No matter how many times the end result of their visions are contradicted by real-world evidence.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
27,898
10,385
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
It would be hard to come up with a dumber tariff plan than President Donald Trump, but Liberal leadership candidate Mark Carney is giving it his best shot.
About 70 per cent of countries don’t have a national carbon tax. That includes the United States. The U.S. isn’t likely to implement its own carbon tax. Trump’s 2024 platform mentioned carbon taxes exactly zero times. Former president Joe Biden had four years to implement a carbon tax and didn’t.

Carney’s carbon tax applied at the border instead of at the gas pump or on your home heating bill. Advocates say that carbon tariffs like this are used to “punish countries that are free-riding on the need to fight climate change.” This means that countries should use economic force to make other countries impose their own carbon taxes and other environmental regulations.

Here’s a key question for Carney: How would Trump respond to carbon tariffs on American goods?

(For those tempted to shake their fists at environmentally uncouth Americans, it’s worth considering this inconvenient fact buried in the government of Canada’s own data. The U.S. reduced emissions by more than 14 per cent between 2005 and 2021. Meanwhile, Canada reduced its emissions by 1.4 per cent)

When Carney is coronated the Liberal leader and becomes prime minister, his carbon tariff won’t pressure other countries to do anything. All it will do is cost Canadians.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
115,743
13,707
113
Low Earth Orbit
It would be hard to come up with a dumber tariff plan than President Donald Trump, but Liberal leadership candidate Mark Carney is giving it his best shot.
About 70 per cent of countries don’t have a national carbon tax. That includes the United States. The U.S. isn’t likely to implement its own carbon tax. Trump’s 2024 platform mentioned carbon taxes exactly zero times. Former president Joe Biden had four years to implement a carbon tax and didn’t.

Carney’s carbon tax applied at the border instead of at the gas pump or on your home heating bill. Advocates say that carbon tariffs like this are used to “punish countries that are free-riding on the need to fight climate change.” This means that countries should use economic force to make other countries impose their own carbon taxes and other environmental regulations.

Here’s a key question for Carney: How would Trump respond to carbon tariffs on American goods?

(For those tempted to shake their fists at environmentally uncouth Americans, it’s worth considering this inconvenient fact buried in the government of Canada’s own data. The U.S. reduced emissions by more than 14 per cent between 2005 and 2021. Meanwhile, Canada reduced its emissions by 1.4 per cent)

When Carney is coronated the Liberal leader and becomes prime minister, his carbon tariff won’t pressure other countries to do anything. All it will do is cost Canadians.
-40 tonight. I can live or fight climate change.
 
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Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
27,898
10,385
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
-40 tonight. I can live or fight climate change.
Not like heating your home in Canada in Winter on the Prairies is optional…& that carbon tax for the privilege of survival makes any sense whatsoever.

Good on Moe for telling Trudeau to go kick rocks on this one a while back when the Libs gave the Maritimes a carve out on home heating, but then told the rest of Canadians to go fuck themselves, ‘cuz we didn’t vote Liberal anyway.
 

pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
28,315
7,939
113
B.C.
Not like heating your home in Canada in Winter on the Prairies is optional…& that carbon tax for the privilege of survival makes any sense whatsoever.

Good on Moe for telling Trudeau to go kick rocks on this one a while back when the Libs gave the Maritimes a carve out on home heating, but then told the rest of Canadians to go fuck themselves, ‘cuz we didn’t vote Liberal anyway.
Just got stopped by a train 152 rail cars loaded with coal scrapped off the top of a mountain , headed to Robert’s Bank to be shipped overseas where it will be burned into the atmosphere.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
27,898
10,385
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
Carbon offsets are unreliable, fraud-ridden financial tokens that often fail to make any environmental impact at all. And if Mark Carney gets his way, they’re going to be Canada’s next big industry.

In his carbon reduction pitch to Liberal voters, Carney pledged himself to “developing and integrating a new consumer carbon credit market” that works with the existing industrial carbon tax, and promised it would bring about price certainty, market efficiency and fiscal neutrality.

Though the details are still scant, it’s a plan to expand the current industrial carbon cap-and-trade system that the Liberals instituted in 2019. Under this system, industrial facilities must bring their emissions under the cap by reducing the amount they pollute and/or buying carbon credits produced by private companies to subtract from their emissions output on paper.

Where do carbon credits come from? In the mandatory federal cap-and-trade system, they’re handed out by the government to reward under-cap industrial emitters, as well as carbon offset firms that carry out carbon-sequestering activity (such as not cutting down a forest, or switching to green tech). Companies that emit over the cap can lower their net emissions by buying carbon credits from others on the market.

On the wilderness of the open market, credits are voluntarily bought and sold like indulgences for green credibility by large brokers. They’re vetted by carbon auditors, who give them legitimacy.

The past several years have seen the demand for carbon-offsets boom, and Carney’s no doubt aware of that. U.S. investment bank Morgan Stanley foresees almost unbelievable growth in offsets ahead: it was a $2-billion business in 2022, but it’s expected that will grow to $100 billion in 2030. If Canada can get in early, the thinking likely is, we stand to profit. What Carney doesn’t take into account is that, just as corporate zeal for environmental, social, and governance (ESG) policies is dying, so too might corporate interest in feeble climate reward tokens.
For one, they’re vulnerable to fraud, even when third-party auditing is involved. In Alberta, which has supervised its own offset market since 2007, the province leaves verification of offset providers to independent auditors. In 2023, it took one of those independent auditors to court for falsifying paperwork. The person responsible was fined $10,000.

This is a common enough problem: in the U.S., one major offset firm simply faked their emissions-reduction data to sell more supposed credits to corporate buyers, and is now facing prosecution. In 2023, more than 90 per cent of the carbon credits approved by American world-leading carbon offset auditor Verra the Guardian were found to not represent real emissions cuts. A similar problem had emerged in California: due to dubious math, one in three carbon credits were found by ProPublica to represent no real-world reduction in emissions at all.

Nature adds a layer of compilation to human greed and negligence: in B.C., wildfires took out some trees that were supposed to be the basis for Mosaic Forest Management’s offset production scheme in 2023. That’s the least of their problems, though. The company later failed an audit of its emissions reduction measures by a third party, and is now fighting for credibility. Many of the trees it protected under the guise of generating carbon credits, claimed the auditor, were trees that wouldn’t have been logged regardless due to their tricky placement on the landscape.

Finally, offsets can clash with human need. Some carbon offset companies work by buying land and letting it sit, even when people have use for it. This has led to clashes between locals who use that land to grow food with foreign offset firms who simply want to improve their carbon balance. This was the case in B.C. in 2015; the Globe and Mail reported that multiple companies had been buying up farmland, planting trees on them and prohibiting future landowners from logging them in 100 years. Public shaming at least put a halt to some of that.

The Liberals have taken meagre steps to solve some of the problems with carbon offsets. It approved a closed list of emissions-reducing activities that offset firms can use to create credits in the federal system — activities that are, supposedly, more scientifically robust than some on the open market. It also banned “greenwashing” last summer to penalize companies that make inaccurate claims about their environmental feats.

But none of this fixes the underlying problem: carbon credits often represent hard-to-quantify activities that are easy to fake. Nor do they carry inherent value: airliners don’t need carbon offsets like they need planes; tech companies don’t need carbon offsets like they need computing capacity. Carbon credits are losing their appeal in the corporate world already, following in the footsteps of environmental, social, governance (ESG) policies and DEI.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
27,898
10,385
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
…And offset companies that float in a government system can be wiped out with the stroke of a pen: still in nascent form, Canada’s federal offset program has generated zero credits from its 32 projects. Some of the businesses involved could be destroyed if a new government is elected.

To be fair to Carney, he isn’t exactly happy with how this system currently runs. On Sunday, he told CBC’s Rosemary Barton that it “doesn’t function very well” and that his plan was to somehow improve function and add carbon credits to the market. The feds, he said, would “stand in between” — presumably between the industry buyers of carbon credits and the producers of offsets.

Carney wouldn’t elaborate, however. Barton asked whether the additional cost to industry would be passed onto consumers, but Carney disagreed that there would be any additional costs at all: “Them buying credits reduces their cost. It helps Canadians reduce their own emissions.” Which, unfortunately, wasn’t much of an explanation. But that makes sense that he has little to say, as it’s such a flimsy industry.

As the guy who’s running on being the paragon who prevented the 2008 financial meltdown from taking down Canada, Carney is sure interested in speculation.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
27,898
10,385
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
On April 1, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s national carbon tax, aka the consumer fuel tax – applying to all provinces except Quebec and B.C., which have federally-approved pricing systems – will raise the cost of gasoline by 20.91 cents per litre and the cost of natural gas for home heating by 18.11 cents per cubic metre since its inception in 2019.

But seldom mentioned is that it also increases taxes on 20 additional forms of fossil fuel energy, all of which end up being paid by the public.

Here are the other fuels the carbon tax will increase the costs of on April 1, followed by its impact on prices since 2019:

Aviation gasoline (+23.26 cents per litre); aviation turbo fuel (+24.53 cents per litre); butane (+16.91 cents per litre); coke (+$302.07 per tonne); coke oven gas (+6.65 cents per cubic metre); combustible waste (+$189.74 per tonne); ethane (+9.68 cents per litre); gas liquids (+15.81 cents per litre); heavy fuel oil (+30.28 cents per litre); high heat value coal (+$211.95 per tonne); kerosene (+24.53 cents per litre); light fuel oil (+25.40 cents per litre); low value heat coal (+$168.38 per tonne); methanol (+10.43 cents per litre); naphtha (+21.42 cents pre litre); non-marketable natural gas (+24.17 cents per litre); petroleum coke (+35.84 cents per lire); pentanes plus (+16.91 cents per litre); propane (+14.70 cents per litre); still gas (+20.40 cents – per cubic metre.)

This is why the carbon tax raises the cost of almost everything because almost all goods and services are created using some form of fossil fuel energy.

Trudeau argues that because of the quarterly climate action incentive payments linked to his national carbon tax, most households paying it end up getting back more in rebates than they pay in carbon taxes.

But Yves Giroux, the independent, non-partisan parliamentary budget officer, says that when one factors in the negative impact of the carbon tax on the Canadian economy, including the lost income of workers and lower business investment, most households end up getting less in rebates than they pay in carbon taxes.

The Trudeau carbon tax was scheduled to keep increasing every year until April 1, 2030, when it would reach $170 per tonne of emissions.

But that is no longer the case since Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre has promised to kill the carbon tax if he wins the federal election later this year while Mark Carney, the presumptive favourite to win the Liberal leadership race on March 9 and thus become prime minister, has said he will replace it with a better new system.

The problem is Carney’s proposed reforms, which he hasn’t yet fully explained, are in some ways worse than Trudeau’s.

That’s because it doesn’t include rebates and will hide the costs of the consumer carbon tax from the public by folding it into a cap-and-trade carbon pricing system applied to large industrial emitters, which raises the prices of consumer goods as opposed to the taxes on them.
In addition, Carney is planning to introduce a new carbon tax – a tariff on foreign imports coming into Canada from other countries that, in the opinion of the federal government, do not have adequate carbon pricing regimes.

The additional costs to the public of the Canadian government imposing a tariff on these products will be paid by Canadian consumers who buy them.

The larger issue is Canada continuing to abide by rulings of United Nations-inspired international carbon pricing regimes, when major emitters such as the U.S. under Trump have made it clear they will not be bound by those agreements.

Given that Trump is apparently determined to damage our economy by holding an economic knife to our throats through a tariff war, we shouldn’t be helping him along with our own policies.
 

Taxslave2

House Member
Aug 13, 2022
4,549
2,630
113
Carbon offsets are unreliable, fraud-ridden financial tokens that often fail to make any environmental impact at all. And if Mark Carney gets his way, they’re going to be Canada’s next big industry.

In his carbon reduction pitch to Liberal voters, Carney pledged himself to “developing and integrating a new consumer carbon credit market” that works with the existing industrial carbon tax, and promised it would bring about price certainty, market efficiency and fiscal neutrality.

Though the details are still scant, it’s a plan to expand the current industrial carbon cap-and-trade system that the Liberals instituted in 2019. Under this system, industrial facilities must bring their emissions under the cap by reducing the amount they pollute and/or buying carbon credits produced by private companies to subtract from their emissions output on paper.

Where do carbon credits come from? In the mandatory federal cap-and-trade system, they’re handed out by the government to reward under-cap industrial emitters, as well as carbon offset firms that carry out carbon-sequestering activity (such as not cutting down a forest, or switching to green tech). Companies that emit over the cap can lower their net emissions by buying carbon credits from others on the market.

On the wilderness of the open market, credits are voluntarily bought and sold like indulgences for green credibility by large brokers. They’re vetted by carbon auditors, who give them legitimacy.

The past several years have seen the demand for carbon-offsets boom, and Carney’s no doubt aware of that. U.S. investment bank Morgan Stanley foresees almost unbelievable growth in offsets ahead: it was a $2-billion business in 2022, but it’s expected that will grow to $100 billion in 2030. If Canada can get in early, the thinking likely is, we stand to profit. What Carney doesn’t take into account is that, just as corporate zeal for environmental, social, and governance (ESG) policies is dying, so too might corporate interest in feeble climate reward tokens.
For one, they’re vulnerable to fraud, even when third-party auditing is involved. In Alberta, which has supervised its own offset market since 2007, the province leaves verification of offset providers to independent auditors. In 2023, it took one of those independent auditors to court for falsifying paperwork. The person responsible was fined $10,000.

This is a common enough problem: in the U.S., one major offset firm simply faked their emissions-reduction data to sell more supposed credits to corporate buyers, and is now facing prosecution. In 2023, more than 90 per cent of the carbon credits approved by American world-leading carbon offset auditor Verra the Guardian were found to not represent real emissions cuts. A similar problem had emerged in California: due to dubious math, one in three carbon credits were found by ProPublica to represent no real-world reduction in emissions at all.

Nature adds a layer of compilation to human greed and negligence: in B.C., wildfires took out some trees that were supposed to be the basis for Mosaic Forest Management’s offset production scheme in 2023. That’s the least of their problems, though. The company later failed an audit of its emissions reduction measures by a third party, and is now fighting for credibility. Many of the trees it protected under the guise of generating carbon credits, claimed the auditor, were trees that wouldn’t have been logged regardless due to their tricky placement on the landscape.

Finally, offsets can clash with human need. Some carbon offset companies work by buying land and letting it sit, even when people have use for it. This has led to clashes between locals who use that land to grow food with foreign offset firms who simply want to improve their carbon balance. This was the case in B.C. in 2015; the Globe and Mail reported that multiple companies had been buying up farmland, planting trees on them and prohibiting future landowners from logging them in 100 years. Public shaming at least put a halt to some of that.

The Liberals have taken meagre steps to solve some of the problems with carbon offsets. It approved a closed list of emissions-reducing activities that offset firms can use to create credits in the federal system — activities that are, supposedly, more scientifically robust than some on the open market. It also banned “greenwashing” last summer to penalize companies that make inaccurate claims about their environmental feats.

But none of this fixes the underlying problem: carbon credits often represent hard-to-quantify activities that are easy to fake. Nor do they carry inherent value: airliners don’t need carbon offsets like they need planes; tech companies don’t need carbon offsets like they need computing capacity. Carbon credits are losing their appeal in the corporate world already, following in the footsteps of environmental, social, governance (ESG) policies and DEI.
Carbon credits are just like the stock markets. Rich kids amusement, while the working people get the shaft and try to figure out whether they should drive another month with no insurance on the car, and make the mortgage payment.
 
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Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
59,584
9,177
113
Washington DC
Carbon credits are just like the stock markets. Rich kids amusement, while the working people get the shaft and try to figure out whether they should drive another month with no insurance on the car, and make the mortgage payment.
Maybe they shoulda paid more attention in school.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
27,898
10,385
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
For people who still believe Liberal leadership frontrunner Mark Carney has promised to scrap the Liberals’ carbon tax, we have some ocean-front property in Alberta we’d like to sell them.
1740504624095.jpeg
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
115,743
13,707
113
Low Earth Orbit
For people who still believe Liberal leadership frontrunner Mark Carney has promised to scrap the Liberals’ carbon tax, we have some ocean-front property in Alberta we’d like to sell them.
View attachment 27705
Shitty map. We're 1600ish feet higher in Regina than Winnipeg.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
27,898
10,385
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
Then too.
I know this is totally a sidetracked from this thread, but North America has had a seaway across it several different times, and the Canadian shield going east to west (more or less) across Canada was once a mountain range. Just throwing that out there.
1740534036736.jpeg
is there one of these that you like more than the other? There’s pages of these and each one is a little bit different. It seems.
1740534101795.jpeg