Jasper evacuated

[Ron in Regina]

Banff is losing the race to prevent the type of disastrous wildfire that torched much of the town of Jasper, says a former Parks Canada environmental scientist.

The failure over decades to properly manage forests to protect the town of Banff doesn’t bode well for the survival of the busy mountain mecca, said Dr. Cliff White, who retired as environmental science manager for Banff National Park in 2009.

'Primed to burn:' Former Parks Canada forestry scientist fears the worst for Banff — Calgary Herald

'It's just so primed to burn, you can't stop it,' said a former Parks Canada environmental scientist

apple.news

“It’s just so primed to burn, you can’t stop it – I don’t think Banff has time…Banff and Canmore are equally vulnerable and it’s a matter that we really need to get our heads around,” said White, now an environmental consultant with various projects in Canada’s oldest national park.

“It’s going to take 20 to 30 years (to do proper mitigation) and mother nature’s going to beat Banff before that.”

He made those comments less than a day after a massive wildfire howled into the town of Jasper, charring large swaths of it.

Jasper, he said “was probably the model community for the urban part of (wildfire prevention) and 5 km outside the town to reduce fuel but the next part of the puzzle was to reduce the next 10-15 km.”

“That’s the way it was for Slave Lake and Fort McMurray and Kelowna.”

Both towns and national parks face a “perfect storm created by our ecosystem, bugs and beetles, fuel, climate change and urbanization.”

Jasper, he said, was beset by pine beetles that killed trees and provided ideal fire fuel, what he termed wildfire “nuclear bombs.”

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

I think the estimate now is a third burned. These are beautiful places, partied in both cities, but they are always going to be under the threat of forest fire because of their location. Live on a coastline you could face floods, hurricanes, and even the rare tsunami. Build by a river you could end up in it, house and all. Build on a mountain, rocks, and mudslides can take you out. Knew a guy in Chilliwack whose house got clobbered while he was watching Seinfeld. If you can build a pipeline across a mountain range, why can't you build an emergency fire suppression device around a town? Just spitballing.

 

[B00Mer]

And that's proof it still wasn't enough.

So why not?

Ask Trudeau

 

[Serryah]

Ask Trudeau

Trudeau's a fire fighter, or a forestry guy?

Point is, obviously that amount of money wasn't enough to deal with getting ready for fire season. Why not? What didn't the cost cover? Extra manpower? Extra equipment?

Not absolving the Feds for not putting enough cash towards such things. They obviously didn't.

But until the answer of "why wasn't it enough" is answered, it doesn't matter how much money you throw at a thing. It won't be enough.

 

[Jinentonix]

I'll give you all this.



And ask for clarification for this.

In the 1980's the whactivists got all whiny about cutting down trees (this brought about plastic shopping bags and such but that's a different topic). They got all pissy about the practice of creating firebreaks in forests. They got all pissy about cleaning up deadfall and other tinder as well as fire ladders because they were "all a necessary part of the ecosystem". Since the 1980s forestry budgets in the US and Canada have been slashed, consistently.
Prior to the 1980's, 95% of all forest fires in North America were extinguished before becoming wildfires. Now, almost every forest fire becomes an instant wildfire because there are decades of dried out, highly combustible/flammable materials all over the forests and no fire breaks. And the morons wanna blame "climate change" for it.

In fact, a few years after the budget slashing started I was camping with a couple of g/fs at a provincial park. The 3rd day I started gathering tinder to get a campfire going (we still had solid wood but had run out of tinder) and an OPP officer approached and told me I was no longer allowed to pick up dead wood off the ground for tinder or firewood because it was "all part of the ecosystem". He thought it was stupid too but his job was to enforce the law.

 

[Jinentonix]

Banff is losing the race to prevent the type of disastrous wildfire that torched much of the town of Jasper, says a former Parks Canada environmental scientist.

The failure over decades to properly manage forests to protect the town of Banff doesn’t bode well for the survival of the busy mountain mecca, said Dr. Cliff White, who retired as environmental science manager for Banff National Park in 2009.

'Primed to burn:' Former Parks Canada forestry scientist fears the worst for Banff — Calgary Herald

'It's just so primed to burn, you can't stop it,' said a former Parks Canada environmental scientist

apple.news

“It’s just so primed to burn, you can’t stop it – I don’t think Banff has time…Banff and Canmore are equally vulnerable and it’s a matter that we really need to get our heads around,” said White, now an environmental consultant with various projects in Canada’s oldest national park.

“It’s going to take 20 to 30 years (to do proper mitigation) and mother nature’s going to beat Banff before that.”

He made those comments less than a day after a massive wildfire howled into the town of Jasper, charring large swaths of it.

Jasper, he said “was probably the model community for the urban part of (wildfire prevention) and 5 km outside the town to reduce fuel but the next part of the puzzle was to reduce the next 10-15 km.”

“That’s the way it was for Slave Lake and Fort McMurray and Kelowna.”

Both towns and national parks face a “perfect storm created by our ecosystem, bugs and beetles, fuel, climate change and urbanization.”

Jasper, he said, was beset by pine beetles that killed trees and provided ideal fire fuel, what he termed wildfire “nuclear bombs.”

Problem is, Groper and his groupies will still insist it's because of "climate change" and not 4 decades of piss poor forest management from all levels of govt.

 

[Serryah]

In the 1980's the whactivists got all whiny about cutting down trees (this brought about plastic shopping bags and such but that's a different topic). They got all pissy about the practice of creating firebreaks in forests. They got all pissy about cleaning up deadfall and other tinder as well as fire ladders because they were "all a necessary part of the ecosystem". Since the 1980s forestry budgets in the US and Canada have been slashed, consistently.
Prior to the 1980's, 95% of all forest fires in North America were extinguished before becoming wildfires. Now, almost every forest fire becomes an instant wildfire because there are decades of dried out, highly combustible/flammable materials all over the forests and no fire breaks. And the morons wanna blame "climate change" for it.

In fact, a few years after the budget slashing started I was camping with a couple of g/fs at a provincial park. The 3rd day I started gathering tinder to get a campfire going (we still had solid wood but had run out of tinder) and an OPP officer approached and told me I was no longer allowed to pick up dead wood off the ground for tinder or firewood because it was "all part of the ecosystem". He thought it was stupid too but his job was to enforce the law.

Ah.

Well I actually agree with you, idiots abounded in the 80's.

Problem is, Groper and his groupies will still insist it's because of "climate change" and not 4 decades of piss poor forest management from all levels of govt.

There's nothing that says it can't be both though.

Piss poor management - not just from Trudeau but previous Federal Governments too, I mean, you admit shit started to go stupid in the 80's - is a huge issue with it, sure.

But Climate Change is a factor too. Hotter weather, dryer weather, less snow, less rain.

Taking out the change in climate as a factor for fires being bad is just as dumb as not blaming the Feds for it.

 

[B00Mer]

Ah.

Well I actually agree with you, idiots abounded in the 80's.



There's nothing that says it can't be both though.

Piss poor management - not just from Trudeau but previous Federal Governments too, I mean, you admit shit started to go stupid in the 80's - is a huge issue with it, sure.

But Climate Change is a factor too. Hotter weather, dryer weather, less snow, less rain.

Taking out the change in climate as a factor for fires being bad is just as dumb as not blaming the Feds for it.

Trudeau is the one in charge for the last 8 years and did nothing..

You're so worried about politics, rather than the people of Jasper.

It was brought up in Parliament, they new of the risks and did nothing. Period.

 

[Jinentonix]

Ah.

Well I actually agree with you, idiots abounded in the 80's.



There's nothing that says it can't be both though.

Piss poor management - not just from Trudeau but previous Federal Governments too, I mean, you admit shit started to go stupid in the 80's - is a huge issue with it, sure.

But Climate Change is a factor too. Hotter weather, dryer weather, less snow, less rain.

Taking out the change in climate as a factor for fires being bad is just as dumb as not blaming the Feds for it.

Blaming CO2 for bigger, hotter fires is also pretty fucking dumb,

 

[Serryah]

Blaming CO2 for bigger, hotter fires is also pretty fucking dumb,

Not blaming them solely Jin.

I'm saying that climate change - which is more than CO2 - is a part of the equation.

Government was lax and has been for fucking decades, both provincial and federal.

It's also lack of keeping up with best practices in forestry management. Forrest fires were not as big a deal historically as they are now, and now we know that in order to fight against them, we HAVE to not only clean up deadfall, but have better diversity of plant and wildlife to keep things under control.

Neither Federal nor Provincial learned after Ford McMurray, obviously.

The people of Jasper became another horrible stat that shouldn't have had to happen.

 

[spaminator]

Jasper’s burnt landscape could take more than century to recover: Wildfire expert
Author of the article:Canadian Press
Canadian Press
Fakiha Baig
Published Aug 17, 2024 • 3 minute read

JASPER, Alta. — It could take more than a century for the freshly burned forest in Jasper National Park to regenerate into its previous postcard-perfect form, a wildfire expert says.


The dense forest’s regrowth could be affected by how deep the fire burned into the ground and how many pine cones hatched like popcorn in the intense heat and released seeds — not to mention climate change more generally, said Jen Beverly, an associate professor with the University of Alberta’s Department of Renewable Resources.

“This is not a catastrophe from an ecological perspective, but we do know there’s a lot of uncertainty into the future,” said Beverly, who has been studying wildfires for more than 25 years.

“Ecosystems are going to evolve and that might span decades to centuries where an open area becomes forested, then there’s a disturbance, and now it’s open again. We can’t keep them like a postcard that doesn’t ever change.”


On July 22, wildfires cut road access through the park and forced the Jasper townsite’s 5,000 residents, along with about 20,000 park visitors, to flee through smoke and ash. Two days later, the fire overwhelmed crews and hit the town, destroying one-third of its buildings.

Residents were allowed back Friday, but have been warned they may have to leave again with one hour’s notice as the out-of-control fire continues to burn within the park.

Those returning were greeted by a changed landscape of blackened trees reduced to skeletons.


Beverly said some clues on how rapidly Jasper’s landscape could regenerate are scattered elsewhere in the park where previous wildfires have struck.

Some of those clues can be found a 30-minute drive north of Jasper’s townsite and a few valleys away in the Syncline Ridge area.


In 2003, Syncline’s more than century-old spruce and pine trees overlooking a valley were burned all the way to the nearby highway, Beverly said.

Syncline’s landscape was similar to the forest area south of Jasper’s townsite before it, too, burned, she said. Both were affected by wildfires recorded in the early 1900s and had been referred to as “long unburned” forest.

“Now, Syncline is still classified as grass and it’s been 20 years since that fire,” she said.

“And that can change over time as forests establish. (The previous forest) took decades and decades for it to reach that stage of mature forests. So overall, anyone visiting the park who frequents it in the decades ahead are much more likely to see open landscape for quite a while.”


Beverly said after a fire has travelled through a forest, it has typically left behind a healthy environment for regrowth.

“It’s actually a really great process where the fire is killing the fuel trees, opening the pine cones, setting the stage for this beautiful seedbed,” she said.

“This is a natural event and these ecosystems have evolved with fire.”

Climate change is a player in the recovery, too.

“We know climate could have an impact on the way the ecosystem responds in the years ahead, or other things like continued drought,” she said.

Evolving conservation efforts could also change how seeds sprout into new forests, Beverly added.

“We have to kind of accept management actions taken by people … Prescribed burning, removing fuels proactively to mitigate the area can all alter what those valleys look like,” she said.

“And that could be quite interesting to watch in the years ahead as we see what comes back and how it looks over the next 10, 20, 50 years.”

Jasper’s burnt landscape could take more than century to recover: Wildfire expert

It could take more than a century for freshly burned forest in Jasper National Park to regenerate into its previous postcard-perfect form

torontosun.com

 

[pgs]

Jasper’s burnt landscape could take more than century to recover: Wildfire expert
Author of the article:Canadian Press
Canadian Press
Fakiha Baig
Published Aug 17, 2024 • 3 minute read

JASPER, Alta. — It could take more than a century for the freshly burned forest in Jasper National Park to regenerate into its previous postcard-perfect form, a wildfire expert says.


The dense forest’s regrowth could be affected by how deep the fire burned into the ground and how many pine cones hatched like popcorn in the intense heat and released seeds — not to mention climate change more generally, said Jen Beverly, an associate professor with the University of Alberta’s Department of Renewable Resources.

“This is not a catastrophe from an ecological perspective, but we do know there’s a lot of uncertainty into the future,” said Beverly, who has been studying wildfires for more than 25 years.

“Ecosystems are going to evolve and that might span decades to centuries where an open area becomes forested, then there’s a disturbance, and now it’s open again. We can’t keep them like a postcard that doesn’t ever change.”


On July 22, wildfires cut road access through the park and forced the Jasper townsite’s 5,000 residents, along with about 20,000 park visitors, to flee through smoke and ash. Two days later, the fire overwhelmed crews and hit the town, destroying one-third of its buildings.

Residents were allowed back Friday, but have been warned they may have to leave again with one hour’s notice as the out-of-control fire continues to burn within the park.

Those returning were greeted by a changed landscape of blackened trees reduced to skeletons.


Beverly said some clues on how rapidly Jasper’s landscape could regenerate are scattered elsewhere in the park where previous wildfires have struck.

Some of those clues can be found a 30-minute drive north of Jasper’s townsite and a few valleys away in the Syncline Ridge area.


In 2003, Syncline’s more than century-old spruce and pine trees overlooking a valley were burned all the way to the nearby highway, Beverly said.

Syncline’s landscape was similar to the forest area south of Jasper’s townsite before it, too, burned, she said. Both were affected by wildfires recorded in the early 1900s and had been referred to as “long unburned” forest.

“Now, Syncline is still classified as grass and it’s been 20 years since that fire,” she said.

“And that can change over time as forests establish. (The previous forest) took decades and decades for it to reach that stage of mature forests. So overall, anyone visiting the park who frequents it in the decades ahead are much more likely to see open landscape for quite a while.”


Beverly said after a fire has travelled through a forest, it has typically left behind a healthy environment for regrowth.

“It’s actually a really great process where the fire is killing the fuel trees, opening the pine cones, setting the stage for this beautiful seedbed,” she said.

“This is a natural event and these ecosystems have evolved with fire.”

Climate change is a player in the recovery, too.

“We know climate could have an impact on the way the ecosystem responds in the years ahead, or other things like continued drought,” she said.

Evolving conservation efforts could also change how seeds sprout into new forests, Beverly added.

“We have to kind of accept management actions taken by people … Prescribed burning, removing fuels proactively to mitigate the area can all alter what those valleys look like,” she said.

“And that could be quite interesting to watch in the years ahead as we see what comes back and how it looks over the next 10, 20, 50 years.”

Jasper’s burnt landscape could take more than century to recover: Wildfire expert

It could take more than a century for freshly burned forest in Jasper National Park to regenerate into its previous postcard-perfect form

torontosun.com

Manning Park looks like it could easily do the same given a chance .

 

[petros]

Manning Park looks like it could easily do the same given a chance .

Its time to clear and light it up now. PNE rains will put it out. In a few days.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

It takes more than a century to bring the trees back, but the low ground will become very fertile.

 

[pgs]

It takes more than a century to bring the trees back, but the low ground will become very fertile.

Not much low ground in Manning Park . Most of the Beatle killed wood seems to be on steep slops . Logging is happening outside park boundaries .

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Not much low ground in Manning Park . Most of the Beatle killed wood seems to be on steep slops . Logging is happening outside park boundaries .

 

[Ron in Regina]

Guilbeault insists his ministry not to blame for Jasper wildfire devastation — National Post

The environment minister repeatedly evaded questions about the federal government's response to multiple warnings of the potential for a catastrophic forest fire in Jasper

apple.news

Guilbeault demurred on multiple occasions when asked whether the federal government bore any responsibility for the disaster, touting recent investments in forest management and wildfire mitigation.

Responding to MPs’ questions, he implied several times that the opposition Conservative party bore responsibility for not taking climate change seriously enough? Really?

The environment minister repeatedly evaded questions about the federal government’s response to multiple warnings of the potential for a catastrophic forest fire in Jasper, including exhortations in 2017 from both Jasper’s mayor and the MP whose riding the municipality falls in, etc…

Researchers Ken Hodges and Emile Begin warned a catastrophic Jasper blaze was “a matter of when, not if” in 2018.

Hodges said in July that he was “frustrated” by the devastation he saw in Jasper.

“All I could say is that we tried to warn them that it was coming. We told them constantly.”

The fire has spurred nearly $900 million in insurance claims, making it one of the costliest disasters in Canadian history….because…Conservatives?

(I wonder if this was one of those “Secret Agenda” things by the Conservatives?)