We've apparently forgotten.
I would suggest that you have won the war when the other side says "We'll do whatever you want if you'll stop killing us!"
American Revolution - we won when the Brits fucked off.
Mexican-American War - we won when they said "OK, you can have half of our country."
Civil War - we won when they said "OK, you can have ALL of our 'country'."
Spanish-American War - we won when they said "OK, you can have all our overseas territories."
World War I - we won when they said "OK, we'll change our government to whatever you want."
World War II - ditto.
Korean War - we didn't win.
Vietnam War - we flat-out lost.
Desert Storm - we half-assed won when they changed their government. Didn't stick (that's OK, neither did Germany after WWI). We fucked up their offensive capability for a few years.
Iraq War - we lost.
Afghan War - we lost.
I would suggest that we lost because we gave up on the concept of fighting until the other guy yells "Uncle!"
I'd have to disagree with that assessment - we/they/you didn't lose because we gave up on the concept of fighting, but rather the 'enemy' was not the roll over and give up that was expected, and when the 'war' began to cost more than the civilian populace was willing to risk in terms of money, resources and lives, Government's said "okay fine, we'll leave".
More about the folly of the be-nice-to-Gazans bunch.
War is messy and tragic. Don't want it to be messy and tragic? Don't engage in warfare.
It's folly to promote civilians not be annihilated in retaliation that is beyond what is necessary?
It's folly to realize that what was done in retaliation for what Hamas did only played right into Hamas hands?
Or is the folly on the ones who were clueless and did all the above?
War IS messy, tragic and we're humans so it's part of what makes us up. War will never end, someone's always going to fight someone else and we're all a villain to someone else's story.
But you know and I know it's also not that simple as "don't engage in warfare", especially when people involved don't have a choice.
Not really. This thread is about the nature of war, and particularly the current half-assed efforts to "limit" wars or end them. Granted, this particular war was inspired by the current Gaza dust-up, or rather by the "international reaction" to it.
So that there are people who would rather not have wars especially stupid, needless ones, are... what then?
You limit wars by being too big, bad, and ugly for the belligerents to get you in the game (unless you want to be there).
Yeah, that's not how it works either. If that were the case there'd be less wars, not continual ones.
And you end wars by beating the other side, not by resolutions or moral suasion.
Beating them how, exactly? Until they say "uncle"? And if they don't?
So you're pro the US and it's allies still being in Afghanistan? Cause sure as shit the Taliban were not beat, not by a long shot.
The concepts of a "just" war or "laws of war" are silly. What're ya gonna do if I break the "laws of war". . . make war on me?
There is no "just" war.
But come on, you should know better about "laws of war". There have been such for hundreds of years in varying degrees. More modern history is to try and limit the death that comes from war as much as possible.
Or are you for all out destruction regardless of who it is, military or civilian alike?
I'll grant you - you get countries that don't follow the "Rules" and it doesn't matter, but does that mean ALL countries shouldn't follow those same 'rules'? So far those 'rules' have kept our species alive until now. Get rid of the rules...
You break the laws of war, you should be held accountable - like Israel right now.
Like the US should be.
Like any country that violates them.
Just because humans are 'basic' doesn't mean we shouldn't want to be better and hold ourselves accountable.
Then again maybe it'd be a different story if all we did was use rocks, spears or bows and arrows to kill each other. More effort to fight, getting up and close to your enemy, etc, etc...
Wars now are half computer games. Removing that face to face against your opponent leads to disconnect about the realities of war.
