Omnibus : Gas prices, Oil prices, Embargos

Nick Danger

Council Member
Jul 21, 2013
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Penticton, BC
Petros, you're in tight with the agricultural sector, I have a farmer acquaintance online who posted some info regarding price increases in fertilizer products in the last year, prices for some domestic products as much as doubling. Can you offer any insight there?prices.jpg
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Petros, you're in tight with the agricultural sector, I have a farmer acquaintance online who posted some info regarding price increases in fertilizer products since the pandemic took hold, prices for some domestic products as much as doubling. Can you offer any insight there?
Input costs to manufacture and distribute fertilizer. It takes a fuck tonne of natural gas to make nitrogen fertilizer and diesel to distribute the product isn't getting cheaper.

Come April 1st it's gets even more expensive.
 
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Tecumsehsbones

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I have heard that the primary factor in large swings in oil and fuel prices has nothing to do with actual supply or demand, but rather with the actions of commodity-trade speculators.

Don't know myself, but that sounds reasonable.
 
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Nick Danger

Council Member
Jul 21, 2013
1,801
465
83
Penticton, BC
I have heard that the primary factor in large swings in oil and fuel prices has nothing to do with actual supply or demand, but rather with the actions of commodity-trade speculators.

Don't know myself, but that sounds reasonable.
That's the feeling I can't shake. This is all about a few people lining their own pockets at the expense of everyone else.
 
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Nick Danger

Council Member
Jul 21, 2013
1,801
465
83
Penticton, BC
Input costs to manufacture and distribute fertilizer. It takes a fuck tonne of natural gas to make nitrogen fertilizer and diesel to distribute the product isn't getting cheaper.

Come April 1st it's gets even more expensive.
In your opinion, are the resulting costs to the end user justified ? Have the costs of getting that product to the farmer risen as much as the prices being charged ?
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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In your opinion, are the resulting costs to the end user justified ? Have the costs of getting that product to the farmer risen as much as the prices being charged ?

Yara is global and has a major stake in the Nor Am market with facilities here in Canada.

SEPTEMBER 17, 2021
Oslo, 17 September 2021: Record high natural gas prices in Europe are impacting ammonia production margins, and as a result Yara is curtailing production at a number of its plants. Including optimization of on-going maintenance, Yara will by next week have curtailed around 40% of its European ammonia production capacity.
Yara will continue to monitor the situation, with the objective to keep supplying customers but curtailing production where necessary.
 

pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
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Does it have to be "full-on socialism" ? Can't we somehow just do with a little less capitalism ? We've been watching the middle class wither away for fifty years now, while those few at the top of the food chain amass more wealth than they could ever possibily need. And lets not fool ourselves by falling into that right/left argument again, it is the rich and powerful that call the shots. It just seems to me that some "rebalancing" might be in order. How many corporations have chalked up record profits during the pandemic ?
Who are this middle class that are withering away ? Look around you . See all those beautiful houses , all owned by the middle class . See all the trailers ,sleds, boats and toys in the driveways , looks like they have lots . SilverStar , and Big White full of skiers daily . How many golf courses in the Okanagan ? Who plays , the poor ?
 
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pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
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I hear that. Especially when it becomes obvious that those shrieking have a limited knowledge of just what they are demanding. I live at the southern tip of a ninety mile long lake in a narrow valley that has a string of towns large and small from end to end, a length that extends well beyond the ends of the lake. The "Timbit Taliban" is still making weekly convoys the length of our area, waving flags and honking horns and generally getting in peoples' faces for what is essentially an effort to circumvent the democratic process. They are hurting their cause more than helping it.
But they are those middle class Canadians that are withering away .
 

Nick Danger

Council Member
Jul 21, 2013
1,801
465
83
Penticton, BC

Yara is global and has a major stake in the Nor Am market with facilities here in Canada.

SEPTEMBER 17, 2021
Oslo, 17 September 2021: Record high natural gas prices in Europe are impacting ammonia production margins, and as a result Yara is curtailing production at a number of its plants. Including optimization of on-going maintenance, Yara will by next week have curtailed around 40% of its European ammonia production capacity.
Yara will continue to monitor the situation, with the objective to keep supplying customers but curtailing production where necessary.
I don't know much about fertilizer, would ammonia price alone account for the price increases across the board ?
 

pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
27,711
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B.C.
In your opinion, are the resulting costs to the end user justified ? Have the costs of getting that product to the farmer risen as much as the prices being charged ?
Look at how much the governments take per litre . Hydro surcharge , PST , GST , Carbon tax . The government love high fuel prices . You will not get relieve from them .
 
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Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
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Need a definition of "middle class." Otherwise y'all might as well argue over "Freedom," "Justice," and "Democracy."

Oh, and of course. . . "Fairness."

With, of course, all the dark muttering. . .
 

Nick Danger

Council Member
Jul 21, 2013
1,801
465
83
Penticton, BC
Who are this middle class that are withering away ? Look around you . See all those beautiful houses , all owned by the middle class . See all the trailers ,sleds, boats and toys in the driveways , looks like they have lots . SilverStar , and Big White full of skiers daily . How many golf courses in the Okanagan ? Who plays , the poor ?
I'm talking about general changes over the last fifty years. When I grew up it was normal that one income could support the house payment, the car payment,and take a holiday in the summer or maybe put a kid through college. Today the norm is two incomes to make ends meet. I also look at things like the distribution of wealth over the whole spectrum, the decline in unionization rates, general decline in health and increases in crime. All these things are tied back to income distribution.
 

Nick Danger

Council Member
Jul 21, 2013
1,801
465
83
Penticton, BC
Look at how much the governments take per litre . Hydro surcharge , PST , GST , Carbon tax . The government love high fuel prices . You will not get relieve from them .
Good point, add to that that burning gasoline is seen by many as an environmental bad guy. My question is still the same though, what has changed in Canada that justifies price increases of the magnitude we are seeing now. I'm stuck on corporate greed and opportunism, looking for a convincing argument otherwise.
 
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petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Low Earth Orbit
I don't know much about fertilizer, would ammonia price alone account for the price increases across the board ?
Yes. Nitrogen fertilizer (ammonia and urea) are made from natural gas and cooked with natural gas. Potassium takes a shit tonne of natural gas to cook, the sulphur to coat the potassium comes from oil upgrading and refining.

It's all interconnected.