Poll: Pipelines Vs. Cannabis

Are you willing to make the sacrifice for Mama Gaia for real if TMPL were stopped?

  • I'd give up my energy intensive indoor weed.

    Votes: 2 50.0%
  • Give up pipeline because fair is fair and that is a Canadian value you stand by?

    Votes: 1 25.0%
  • Sittin' stoned in the mornin' sun I'll be sittin' when the evenin' comes Watchin' the ships roll in?

    Votes: 1 25.0%
  • I'm an off grid eco angel and grow my own pot in a leaky left size 11 rubber boot?

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    4

spilledthebeer

Executive Branch Member
Jan 26, 2017
9,296
4
36
When tobacco is made illegal, which judging by the current anti smoking laws may be soon it will have a high enough value to grow indoors.


========================================================================================================


NO NEED to make tobacco illegal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Natives on both sides of the U.S./Cdn border are now operating WAY BEYOND the law on producing tobacco and cigarettes anyway!!!!!!!!




Tax-free cigarettes adding to Ontario's contraband problem

CHRISTINE VAN GEYN, Special to the Toronto Sun
First posted: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 08:59 PM EDT | Updated: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 09:02 PM EDT. Toronto Sun files


Premier Kathleen Wynne knows that contraband cigarettes are a problem in Ontario — costing her government millions each year in lost revenues. But her tough talk doesn’t match her actions.

Let’s start with the tough talk. This past January she announced a whole new department within the Ontario Provincial Police just to deal with contraband smokes. Will it work? Maybe, maybe not. By itself, this probably won’t make the problem worse.

But what of her actions? A month after announcing the new OPP task force on contraband, the Wynne government hiked tobacco taxes by $3 a carton, making illegal cigarettes that much more attractive.

And then there’s the real kicker, the Ontario government allocates millions of tax-free cigarettes to smoke shacks on reserves for sale to Status Indians. In fact, they allocate so many cigarettes to reserves that it’s likely only 122 million out of 435 million cigarettes allocated to reserves are sold to Status Indians.

The leftovers? Sold illegally.

It sounds crazy, but it’s true. The Canadian Taxpayers Federation (CTF) has obtained documents through a Freedom of Information request that shows that Ontario Cigarette Allocation System is sending so many tax-free cigarettes to Ontario reserves that to be consumed legally, every smoker on a reserve over the age of 15 would have to smoke 61 cigarettes a day, every day.

It is painfully clear from these numbers that huge quantities of cigarettes from the government allocation system are being sold illegally to people who are not Status Indians. This fact is even more obvious when billboards for “smoke shacks” and “tax free smokes” are found throughout reservations.

Indeed, based on the government’s own numbers, the CTF estimates that last year, at minimum 47% and possibly upwards of 72% of all sales of tax-exempt government allocated tobacco were made illegally to people who were not Status Indians.

As for the recent tax hikes, there is a relationship between increased tax rates for tobacco and increased contraband. As tobacco taxes have risen, so has the incentive to smuggle, produce and sell tobacco illegally in order to avoid taxes.

The CTF also estimates that in 2014-15 alone, the overall contraband tobacco trade in Ontario cost the federal and provincial governments up to $1.22 billion in lost tax revenue. Over the past eight years, the total tax loss is as high as $9.2 billion.

To make up that tax hole, Wynne turns to hard-working Ontario families with plans like taxing home heating fuels, hiking gasoline taxes, and now possibly even applying a double land-transfer tax for homes outside of Toronto.

Law enforcement is a component in the fight against contraband, but doubling down on enforcement without changing the underlying conditions that fuel the contraband tobacco trade is throwing good money after bad.

One of the simplest steps to fight contraband would be to reduce the number of tax-free government allocated cigarettes given to aboriginal reserves.

The Ontario government should reduce the allocation amount by half, and then conduct a followup investigation to determine if further reductions are necessary.

This is a more sensible — and far less costly — solution than continuing to spend new money on enforcement measures while simultaneously hiking the taxes that drive consumers to the black market. It’s a solution that Wynne needs to consider if she is serious about fighting the black market in cigarettes, getting back some of those lost tax dollars, and keeping cigarettes out of the hands of children.

— Christine Van Geyn is the Ontario director for the Canadian Taxpayers Federation
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
4,340
113
Vancouver Island
Indoor growing is a dinosaur.
It no longer makes any sense.
A single farmer on the prairies could grow enough weed in a season to supply Canada for 5 years.
Perhaps. THe question is would anyone except government buy it? Growing pot properly is about quality, not quanity.Also different strains are for different markets and are not necessarily compatible.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
4,340
113
Vancouver Island
========================================================================================================
NO NEED to make tobacco illegal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Natives on both sides of the U.S./Cdn border are now operating WAY BEYOND the law on producing tobacco and cigarettes anyway!!!!!!!!




Tax-free cigarettes adding to Ontario's contraband problem

CHRISTINE VAN GEYN, Special to the Toronto Sun
First posted: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 08:59 PM EDT | Updated: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 09:02 PM EDT. Toronto Sun files
Premier Kathleen Wynne knows that contraband cigarettes are a problem in Ontario — costing her government millions each year in lost revenues. But her tough talk doesn’t match her actions.
Let’s start with the tough talk. This past January she announced a whole new department within the Ontario Provincial Police just to deal with contraband smokes. Will it work? Maybe, maybe not. By itself, this probably won’t make the problem worse.
But what of her actions? A month after announcing the new OPP task force on contraband, the Wynne government hiked tobacco taxes by $3 a carton, making illegal cigarettes that much more attractive.
And then there’s the real kicker, the Ontario government allocates millions of tax-free cigarettes to smoke shacks on reserves for sale to Status Indians. In fact, they allocate so many cigarettes to reserves that it’s likely only 122 million out of 435 million cigarettes allocated to reserves are sold to Status Indians.
The leftovers? Sold illegally.
It sounds crazy, but it’s true. The Canadian Taxpayers Federation (CTF) has obtained documents through a Freedom of Information request that shows that Ontario Cigarette Allocation System is sending so many tax-free cigarettes to Ontario reserves that to be consumed legally, every smoker on a reserve over the age of 15 would have to smoke 61 cigarettes a day, every day.
It is painfully clear from these numbers that huge quantities of cigarettes from the government allocation system are being sold illegally to people who are not Status Indians. This fact is even more obvious when billboards for “smoke shacks” and “tax free smokes” are found throughout reservations.
Indeed, based on the government’s own numbers, the CTF estimates that last year, at minimum 47% and possibly upwards of 72% of all sales of tax-exempt government allocated tobacco were made illegally to people who were not Status Indians.
As for the recent tax hikes, there is a relationship between increased tax rates for tobacco and increased contraband. As tobacco taxes have risen, so has the incentive to smuggle, produce and sell tobacco illegally in order to avoid taxes.
The CTF also estimates that in 2014-15 alone, the overall contraband tobacco trade in Ontario cost the federal and provincial governments up to $1.22 billion in lost tax revenue. Over the past eight years, the total tax loss is as high as $9.2 billion.
To make up that tax hole, Wynne turns to hard-working Ontario families with plans like taxing home heating fuels, hiking gasoline taxes, and now possibly even applying a double land-transfer tax for homes outside of Toronto.
Law enforcement is a component in the fight against contraband, but doubling down on enforcement without changing the underlying conditions that fuel the contraband tobacco trade is throwing good money after bad.
One of the simplest steps to fight contraband would be to reduce the number of tax-free government allocated cigarettes given to aboriginal reserves.
The Ontario government should reduce the allocation amount by half, and then conduct a followup investigation to determine if further reductions are necessary.
This is a more sensible — and far less costly — solution than continuing to spend new money on enforcement measures while simultaneously hiking the taxes that drive consumers to the black market. It’s a solution that Wynne needs to consider if she is serious about fighting the black market in cigarettes, getting back some of those lost tax dollars, and keeping cigarettes out of the hands of children.
— Christine Van Geyn is the Ontario director for the Canadian Taxpayers Federation

Or the Ontario government could just get their greedy little snouts out of the marketplace. Presto, contraband problem is solved. Bonus is several thousand government employees can be laid off.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
A single farmer on the prairies could grow enough weed in a season to supply Canada for 5 years.
You are thinking of hemp. The abandoned mines in Flin Flon would produce better pot and none would stolen. You want to fence off Sask.?? Under water grow ops in Canada's swamp would make us a world supplier.

The hemp crop would be worth money BTW.
 

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
33,676
1,666
113
Northern Ontario,
Indoor growing is a dinosaur.

It no longer makes any sense.

A single farmer on the prairies could grow enough weed in a season to supply Canada for 5 years.
Indoor growing is about quality control for the different types of Cannabis .
It's not just about rolling up a weed to get high!
Food and drug inspectors are gonna be busy......
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
. . . so will the other smokers and when it goes 'poof' it won't be going up in smoke. Who would have thunked that Panama Red was actually a Canadian off his meds.
 

Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
20,408
4
36
Perhaps. THe question is would anyone except government buy it? Growing pot properly is about quality, not quanity.Also different strains are for different markets and are not necessarily compatible.
you understand that weed is cloned right?

it makes no difference where you grow it.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
29,305
11,054
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
========================================================================================================
Marijuana is a TROPICAL PLANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It does NOT LIKE SNOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, but they don't call it "Weed" for nothing as it does winter outdoors on the prairies. I know some guys who wanted their own little grow hidden in a side valley off the Qu'Appele Valley in the '70's so they started a pile of plants at home and found a nice little side valley off the main valley with a south east sun exposure. They planted a big crop and lost it shortly there after to the deer (they love that leafy green shit!) but learned to hang soap and scent mark (piss) their planting to help combat the deer. Next wave was eaten by the rabbits though....and eventually they went onto different projects and this was forgotten about. Enough of their crop was pooped out by the Thumpers and Bambi's though it seems.

Decades later one of these guys went back to where they'd planted their crop in the bottom of that valley (for access to water and more hidden, etc....) and there where no plants left....but half way up the hillside it was covered with Marijuana plants (where they could get more sunlight) but they'd evolved to deal with prairies and wind and such, and thus where only about 18"-24" tall just like the other plants and grasses on that hillside that battle the wind (not fighting for sunlight as no trees 1/2 way up a hillside). You had to know what you where seeing though as they'd just blend in to the background if you didn't. God only knows what the quality was like as by that point they where all grandparents involved in industry or inter-jurasdictional transport, ect...and nobody bothered with pot any longer.
 

Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
20,408
4
36
Marijuana is not a tropical plant. It grows in the mountains.
 

Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
20,408
4
36
and everyone who has ever grown weed knows it can't tolerate too much heat.

That's why they can't grow it in the tropics.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
4,340
113
Vancouver Island
Oh look the school boy found a book. Of course the foreign book knows so much more than people that have been growing for over fourty years.
Sounds much like the lady with the Ipad that came around and said "I don't know how to do your job but my computer says you are doing it wrong".
 

Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
20,408
4
36
Yes please give us the benefit of your 40 years of growing weed in the tropics.