Ontario has made $3 Billion from Cap and Trade in less than a year

[White_Unifier]

Our government bought a big chunk of GM when it was on the ropes a few years back and we did, in fact, subsidize the Hummer ... and the Chevy Suburban and a whole livery of other ridiculous vehicles.

Thanks for the reminder. That was absolute idiocy! All I could think was if people won't buy a car, who's the government to tax them, subsidize the car manufacturers, and then blackmail them by telling them that if they want their money back, they'll have to get it back by buying a subsidized car, especially when cities are struggling with traffic congestion!

Had the government decided to subsidize bicycle, cross-country-ski, and snowshoe manufacturers or videoconferencing tech, while I still would have opposed it, at least the government could have made a public-policy argument for it.

White might have made more sense at the time would have been for governments to expand walking, cycling, telecommuting, and video-conferencing infrastructure.

 

[petros]

Had the government decided to subsidize bicycle, cross-country-ski, and snowshoe manufacturers or videoconferencing tech, while I still would have opposed it, at least the government could have made a public-policy argument for it.

They are subsidized according to mentalfloss.

 

[Bar Sinister]

Hmm, I wonder if Ford is willing to throw away $3 billion and still try to balance the budget.

 

[petros]

What did it cost to earn $3B?

 

[taxslave]

Drug Fraud not even sworn in yet and he's already fukking up worse than Wynne. :lol:


Ontario has made close to $3 billion in a series of cap-and-trade auctions since the system was introduced by the Liberals last year.

The cap-and-trade system aims to lower greenhouse gas emissions by putting caps on the amount of pollution companies in certain industries can emit. If they exceed those limits they must buy allowances at quarterly auctions or from other companies that come in under their limits.

Ford has consistently opposed carbon pricing and has come under fire for failing to explain how he would make up for the lost revenue.

NDP legislator Peter Tabuns said Ford's decision could cost taxpayers money and hurt the environment. Scrapping the system will also mean billions less in revenue for the government, money that will either have to be replaced or programs will have to be cut, he said.

"How will Mr. Ford replace the $1.9 billion per year that the cap-and-trade auction brings in for the province?" Tabuns said in a statement. "Will he be making another $2 billion in cuts to programs Ontarians count on?

Ontario Green party Leader Mike Schreiner, who was elected to the legislature last week, said ending cap and trade is bad for the province and for business. The move will cost the province jobs and money, he said.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/busin...-scrap-ontario-cap-and-trade-system-1.3975044

You and your green buds have zero idea about economics. C&T is a scam just like the carbon tax. ALl it does is add tio the retail price of everything and hurnt employment in non government sectors.

What did it cost to earn $3B?

About 9 billion. But use lefty math and the budget will balance itself.

 

[White_Unifier]

Honestly, if Ford wants to reduce taxes, income tax and the HST would be the way to go and maybe replace cap and trade with a carbon tax. A high carbon tax deters traffic congestion which in turn not only collects revenue but saves money on infrastructure expansion too. When the budget is that tight, we want taxes to kill as many birds with as few stones as possible. That means raising business taxes on businesses that sell alcohol (liver damage), tobacco (lung cancer), gambling (mental health), animal products and byproducts (heart disease), prostitution (HIV), and natural resources (asthma) and then drop other taxes altogether. Target the taxes where they count most.

 

[Curious Cdn]

Honestly, if Ford wants to reduce taxes, income tax and the HST would be the way to go and maybe replace cap and trade with a carbon tax. A high carbon tax deters traffic congestion which in turn not only collects revenue but saves money on infrastructure expansion too. When the budget is that tight, we want taxes to kill as many birds with as few stones as possible. That means raising business taxes on businesses that sell alcohol (liver damage), tobacco (lung cancer), gambling (mental health), animal products and byproducts (heart disease), prostitution (HIV), and natural resources (asthma) and then drop other taxes altogether. Target the taxes where they count most.

Maybe, he'll sell off a highway ... The Gardiner or the 401 Windsor-to-Quebec.

 

[Jinentonix]

He could cut back on the people inspecting things like water quality.

Mike Harris did

Or we could shut down our water treatment facilities and just dump our raw sewage. It's good enough for "supernatural" BC.

 

[Walter]

$3 billion has been taken out of taxpayers pockets.

 

[Jinentonix]

Carbon tax is gone.


Bicycle tax will make up the revenue difference.

So you agree that the carbon tax is just a tax grab for the sake of revenues and has f*ck all to do with "saving the planet".

According to the Auditor General, the first year of Ontario's C&T cost Ontario consumers and businesses about $8 billion.

That's a $5 billion loss. Reminds me of a guy years ago who said he won $200 at the track. He couldn't comprehend the fact that he gambled a total of $450 to win that $200 and had in fact lost $250. And he actually argued with me about it. :lol:

 

[Bar Sinister]

What did it cost to earn $3B?

Money has to come from somewhere. Ford promised to cut the Ontario deficit. There are only two ways to do this - raise taxes or cut services. The latter is bound to be very unpopular but I expect the Cons will do it anyway. However, if the economy does not turn around....

 

[Jinentonix]

Money has to come from somewhere. Ford promised to cut the Ontario deficit. There are only two ways to do this - raise taxes or cut services. The latter is bound to be very unpopular but I expect the Cons will do it anyway. However, if the economy does not turn around....

But wait, I thought the economy in Ontario was doing great. Why would it need to "turn around"?

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

But wait, I thought the economy in Ontario was doing great. Why would it need to "turn around"?

Yes, we have countless posts from MF telling us how great it is and has been for the last 15 years.


Just a note, I don't recall fighting the deficit among his campaign promises. He did say he would find efficiencies (a nice vague statement) but I don't think he claimed to balance the budget. None of the 3 parties made that promise.

 

[Bar Sinister]

But wait, I thought the economy in Ontario was doing great. Why would it need to "turn around"?

I don't know - it was Ford who claimed the Ontario economy was in the tank, not me.

 

[mentalfloss]

Poor Ford.

No efficiencies left.

 

[Jinentonix]

Poor Ford.

No efficiencies left.

I dunno about that. Scrapping a C&T system that costs $5 billion a year more than it takes in seems like a good starting point. Find another $1 billion and there's the money for health and/or education. Could probably save that and more by scrapping the subsidies to the wind and solar producers since wind and solar supposedly generate power so cheaply. At the same time it could give ratepayers a break on their hydro bills.

Even in smaller chunks, find enough and it adds up. I know people like to argue that you have to pay big to get the best for the position but how big is too big? Example; the CEO of Hydro one has a compensation package of a little over $6 million/yr. The CEO of Hydro Quebec, who is also its President, is compensated to the tune of just under $600K per year. So, despite making more than 10X less that of Hydro One's CEO, he still manages to run it quite competently. So well in fact that Ontario has paid Quebec 2.5 cents/kWh to take excess generation off of our hands, which they then sell to the US for 2.5 cents/kWh. Pretty sweet deal the Liberals have for Quebec eh? Quebec gets to make 5 cents/kWh off of Ontario's excess hydro with no generating costs to them to make it. Don't you just LOVE subsidizing Quebec Hydro with your Ontario tax dollars? And there's another potential efficiency.

Poor Flossy, too stupid to see beyond what he wants to see.

 

[Curious Cdn]

Poor Ford.

No efficiencies left.

He can sell off a road! Been done before! Imagine $10.00 per trip for a transit North-South from Hwy 7 to the QEW and the profits going to Chinese investors! 99 year lease!

That should raise a couple of billion.