Britain threatens Russia with military and economic retaliation over spy poisoning
- Thread starter Blackleaf
- Start date
Salisbury diners told to wash possessions
11 March 2018
BBC News
Up to 500 Salisbury pub-goers and diners told to wash possessions as precaution after nerve agent traces found
Trace amounts of the substance used to poison ex-Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter were found at the Mill pub and Zizzi restaurant.
Prof Dame Sally Davies, the chief medical officer for England, said the risk of harm was "low".
The advice applies to anyone in either venue after 13:30 on Sunday.
Salisbury diners told to wash possessions - BBC News
Coffee House
With 240 potential witnesses, were Skripal’s poisoners trying to send a message?
James Forsyth
Sergei Skripal
James Forsyth
10 March 2018
The Spectator
‘Any fool can commit murder, but it takes an artist to make it look like suicide’, the KGB used to say. But whoever put Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia in hospital was rather less subtle: police have identified 240 potential witnesses, according to Amber Rudd, and have extensive CCTV coverage to go through.
I write in The Sun this morning that anyone capable of getting hold of the nerve agent used was capable of killing him in a far more subtle manner – with no witnesses and nothing in CCTV. Whoever carried out the attack on Skripal wanted to send a message. They wanted to prove that enemies of Russia are not safe wherever they may be. They also wanted to highlight Western impotence; to show how the liberal democratic world struggles to deal with attacks that come wrapped in a cloak of deniability.
It is currently hard to escape the conclusion that the UK government’s passivity in the face of Alexander Litvinenko’s murder has emboldened Putin’s friends to carry out another attack in Britain
This time it must be different. The UK needs to make clear that Russia will pay a price for this kind of behaviour.
We should use social media to spread the word in Russia about just how rich Putin, his family and his cronies are. Ahead of the Russian elections later this month, Putin released details of his wealth. They suggested he had around £175,000 in the bank, some shares in a bank, a flat and a few sportscars.
But considering that his son in law had to essentially give away close to $2 billion worth of shares when he broke up with Putin’s daughter, it is safe to assume his real worth is massively more than this.
Getting this information out there in Russia would embarrass Putin. Combine this with far sharper sanctions on his associates, allies and enablers and his gang would think twice about letting people carry out assassination attempts on British soil.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/...-skripals-poisoners-trying-to-send-a-message/
11 March 2018
BBC News
Up to 500 Salisbury pub-goers and diners told to wash possessions as precaution after nerve agent traces found
Trace amounts of the substance used to poison ex-Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter were found at the Mill pub and Zizzi restaurant.
Prof Dame Sally Davies, the chief medical officer for England, said the risk of harm was "low".
The advice applies to anyone in either venue after 13:30 on Sunday.
Salisbury diners told to wash possessions - BBC News
Coffee House
With 240 potential witnesses, were Skripal’s poisoners trying to send a message?
James Forsyth
Sergei Skripal
James Forsyth
10 March 2018
The Spectator
‘Any fool can commit murder, but it takes an artist to make it look like suicide’, the KGB used to say. But whoever put Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia in hospital was rather less subtle: police have identified 240 potential witnesses, according to Amber Rudd, and have extensive CCTV coverage to go through.
I write in The Sun this morning that anyone capable of getting hold of the nerve agent used was capable of killing him in a far more subtle manner – with no witnesses and nothing in CCTV. Whoever carried out the attack on Skripal wanted to send a message. They wanted to prove that enemies of Russia are not safe wherever they may be. They also wanted to highlight Western impotence; to show how the liberal democratic world struggles to deal with attacks that come wrapped in a cloak of deniability.
It is currently hard to escape the conclusion that the UK government’s passivity in the face of Alexander Litvinenko’s murder has emboldened Putin’s friends to carry out another attack in Britain
This time it must be different. The UK needs to make clear that Russia will pay a price for this kind of behaviour.
We should use social media to spread the word in Russia about just how rich Putin, his family and his cronies are. Ahead of the Russian elections later this month, Putin released details of his wealth. They suggested he had around £175,000 in the bank, some shares in a bank, a flat and a few sportscars.
But considering that his son in law had to essentially give away close to $2 billion worth of shares when he broke up with Putin’s daughter, it is safe to assume his real worth is massively more than this.
Getting this information out there in Russia would embarrass Putin. Combine this with far sharper sanctions on his associates, allies and enablers and his gang would think twice about letting people carry out assassination attempts on British soil.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/...-skripals-poisoners-trying-to-send-a-message/
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Yeah.
No.
How much of Britain's gas actually comes from Russia? As the graphic shows, only a third of Europe's gas comes from Russia - but how much of that goes to Britain?
The UK is the least dependent on foreign sources of energy out of the five EU countries who consume the largest amounts of energy overall (Germany, France, Italy, Spain and the UK).
Obviously more than zero.
I don't forget the these are the numbers British Gas are willing to release,
which have probably been 'massaged' anyway.
You should be more careful making absolute blanket statements.
But is it enough for the British to fear the Russians turning the supply off?
From The Guardian, Friday 29th December 2017:
The first-ever shipment of Russian gas to the UK looks likely to head straight back out on another ship, disproving Moscow’s claims that Britain will be reliant on it for supplies this winter.
National Grid confirmed that gas from a Russian field targeted by US sanctions had been delivered by a Russian icebreaker to storage facilities at the Isle of Grain in Kent on Thursday night.
Russian media seized on the delivery of liquefied natural gas (LNG) to claim it would “keep Britons from freezing this winter” while the Russian embassy in the UK tweeted: “Feeling cold? Help is on the way.”
However, industry experts said the most likely scenario was that the UK would simply be a stopping-off point for the gas, which could fetch a much higher price in Asia.
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...ified-natural-gas-shipment-unlikely-remain-uk
Russian spy: Salisbury diners told to wash possessions
BBC News
11 March 2018
Prof Dame Sally Davies, the Chief Medical Officer for England, said the risk of harm was "low"
Up to 500 Salisbury pub-goers and diners have been told to wash possessions as a precaution after nerve agent traces were found.
Trace amounts of the substance used to poison ex-Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter were found on and around a table where the pair ate at Zizzi restaurant, the BBC has learned.
The table, along with other items, has been removed and destroyed.
Scientists have advised police it could take weeks for the premises to reopen.
Traces of the nerve agent were also found at the Mill pub in Salisbury.
Sergei and Yulia Skripal, who remain in a critical but stable condition in hospital, are understood to have eaten on a table away from other diners.
Prof Dame Sally Davies, the chief medical officer for England, said the risk of harm to fellow diners was "low".
The advice to wash possessions applies to anyone in either venue after 13:30 GMT on Sunday 4 March.
People who were at either venue before closure on Monday are advised to do the following:
Clothes should be washed, ideally in a washing machine
Clothes which cannot be washed, for example if they need dry cleaning, should be double bagged in plastic until further notice
Mobile phones, handbags and other electronic items should be wiped with baby wipes, which should be bagged in plastic and put in the bin
Other items such as jewellery and glasses should be washed with warm water and detergent
Hands should be washed after the handling of any items suspected of being contaminated.
Dame Sally said after "rigorous scientific analysis" there was some concern that prolonged exposure over weeks and months could cause health problems but it was "not a subject for panic".
She said the advice was a "belt and braces" measure, adding: "The risk to the general public remains low and I am confident none of these customers or staff will have suffered harm."
BBC correspondent Kathryn Stanczyszyn said people in Salisbury are starting to ask why the advice had not been issued before now.
Dame Sally said it had been a "painstaking process" and the "scientific tests take time" but no harm had been caused by the wait.
Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia are still critically ill in hospital
Alastair Hay, professor emeritus of environmental toxicology at the University of Leeds, said nerve agents degrade in the environment.
"Contact with moisture will lead to breakdown of the nerve agent - this is why people having visited the restaurant or pub in question last Sunday afternoon or Monday are being advised to wash their possessions," he said.
Mr Skripal, 66, and his daughter Yulia, 33, are both critically ill in hospital after being found slumped on a bench in the city on Sunday.
Det Sgt Nick Bailey, who fell ill attending the pair, remains seriously ill in hospital but has been talking to his family.
The pub and restaurant are two of five sites in Salisbury focused on by investigators.
Mr Skripal's home and the cemetery where Mr Skripal's wife and son are buried are also being examined.
At a press conference on Sunday, Chief Constable Kier Pritchard of Wiltshire Police said he was "unable to clarify" how long those crime scenes would remain closed to the public.
Det Sgt Nick Bailey remains in hospital
A 30-year-old man has been charged with breaching a cordon at one of the sites, The Maltings shopping area, on Friday night.
He was also charged with assaulting a police officer, criminal damage to a police vehicle, common assault and a racially aggravated public order offence, and is due before magistrates in Swindon on Monday.
Members of the military are assisting police for a third day having previously helped with the removal of vehicles of interest including an ambulance.
More than 250 counter terrorism police are now involved in the investigation, which has yielded 200 pieces of evidence so far and more than 240 witnesses.
Mr Skripal, a retired Russian military intelligence officer, was convicted by the Russian government of passing secrets to MI6 in 2004, but given refuge in the UK in 2010 as part of a "spy swap".
Russia has denied any involvement.
The advice affects anyone at the Mill pub between 13:30 on Sunday and its closure at 23.10 on Monday
Russian spy: Salisbury diners told to wash possessions - BBC News
BBC News
11 March 2018
Prof Dame Sally Davies, the Chief Medical Officer for England, said the risk of harm was "low"
Up to 500 Salisbury pub-goers and diners have been told to wash possessions as a precaution after nerve agent traces were found.
Trace amounts of the substance used to poison ex-Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter were found on and around a table where the pair ate at Zizzi restaurant, the BBC has learned.
The table, along with other items, has been removed and destroyed.
Scientists have advised police it could take weeks for the premises to reopen.
Traces of the nerve agent were also found at the Mill pub in Salisbury.
Sergei and Yulia Skripal, who remain in a critical but stable condition in hospital, are understood to have eaten on a table away from other diners.
Prof Dame Sally Davies, the chief medical officer for England, said the risk of harm to fellow diners was "low".
The advice to wash possessions applies to anyone in either venue after 13:30 GMT on Sunday 4 March.
People who were at either venue before closure on Monday are advised to do the following:
Clothes should be washed, ideally in a washing machine
Clothes which cannot be washed, for example if they need dry cleaning, should be double bagged in plastic until further notice
Mobile phones, handbags and other electronic items should be wiped with baby wipes, which should be bagged in plastic and put in the bin
Other items such as jewellery and glasses should be washed with warm water and detergent
Hands should be washed after the handling of any items suspected of being contaminated.
Dame Sally said after "rigorous scientific analysis" there was some concern that prolonged exposure over weeks and months could cause health problems but it was "not a subject for panic".
She said the advice was a "belt and braces" measure, adding: "The risk to the general public remains low and I am confident none of these customers or staff will have suffered harm."
BBC correspondent Kathryn Stanczyszyn said people in Salisbury are starting to ask why the advice had not been issued before now.
Dame Sally said it had been a "painstaking process" and the "scientific tests take time" but no harm had been caused by the wait.
Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia are still critically ill in hospital
Alastair Hay, professor emeritus of environmental toxicology at the University of Leeds, said nerve agents degrade in the environment.
"Contact with moisture will lead to breakdown of the nerve agent - this is why people having visited the restaurant or pub in question last Sunday afternoon or Monday are being advised to wash their possessions," he said.
Mr Skripal, 66, and his daughter Yulia, 33, are both critically ill in hospital after being found slumped on a bench in the city on Sunday.
Det Sgt Nick Bailey, who fell ill attending the pair, remains seriously ill in hospital but has been talking to his family.
The pub and restaurant are two of five sites in Salisbury focused on by investigators.
Mr Skripal's home and the cemetery where Mr Skripal's wife and son are buried are also being examined.
At a press conference on Sunday, Chief Constable Kier Pritchard of Wiltshire Police said he was "unable to clarify" how long those crime scenes would remain closed to the public.
Det Sgt Nick Bailey remains in hospital
A 30-year-old man has been charged with breaching a cordon at one of the sites, The Maltings shopping area, on Friday night.
He was also charged with assaulting a police officer, criminal damage to a police vehicle, common assault and a racially aggravated public order offence, and is due before magistrates in Swindon on Monday.
Members of the military are assisting police for a third day having previously helped with the removal of vehicles of interest including an ambulance.
More than 250 counter terrorism police are now involved in the investigation, which has yielded 200 pieces of evidence so far and more than 240 witnesses.
Mr Skripal, a retired Russian military intelligence officer, was convicted by the Russian government of passing secrets to MI6 in 2004, but given refuge in the UK in 2010 as part of a "spy swap".
Russia has denied any involvement.
The advice affects anyone at the Mill pub between 13:30 on Sunday and its closure at 23.10 on Monday
Russian spy: Salisbury diners told to wash possessions - BBC News
That would probably seriously damage those crappy, rusting ships in Russia's navy - including the Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft carrier, which is so unreliable that the carrier is accompanied by a large ocean-going tug whenever it deploys, in case it breaks down.
How's that war against the Russians going, Horatio? Even the rusty, old steaming Kuznetsov carries a viable air arm that could sink a sizeable portion of the Royal Navy in quick order.
Impossible if a sizeable proportion of the Royal Navy is nowhere near it.
And I'd like to see that old thing even hit, let alone sink, a Royal Navy Type 45 destroyer.
The Type 45s all need to have their slick, Buck Rogers, AC electric drive power plants fixed/modified at a cost of billions and they may very well be sailing with a tug nearby, too.
All of the radar stealth Destroyers and Frigates out there (including our Halifax class) are as yet untried in combat. Every measure has a countermeasure and I would not underestimate the technological capability of the Russians to find a way around them (electro-magnetic fields around big piles of metal?).
If you're using that logic, you could say the same but the other way around, about the British.
The X ruskie was of absolutly no value to any org other than the demonizing Russia crowd. Oh look her Majesty is right up there throwing shijt at Putin
True. I remember, though, the Royal Navy reliance of the Sea Sparrow SAM missile and how it let them down flat in the Falklands. Cutting edge doesn't necessarily cut it. These weapons are products for sale and, caveat emptor.
If the Russians aren't careful the Briddish will send them teeth!
Honestly apart from the Beatles I can't think of anything Briddish the Russians have any use for.
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Honestly apart from the Beatles I can't think of anything Briddish the Russians have any use for.
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Canada has now expelled 4 Russian diplomats in a coordinate effort at diplomatic sanctions against by NATO, EU and other Western Allies.
It's probably much more than Putin anticipated when he sent one of agents to poison a former double agent with a nerve toxin to spike the final week of his reelection campaign. Still, as insular and exonophobic a Russia is, this will only have limited effect on restraining Putin.
If Britain really want to put some pressure the Russians it should end its practice of being a safe haven for Russian Oligarchs who have fallen out of favour with Putin and as a base for money laundering operations for Putin and his Cronies vast loot.
Anyone who has made himself a billionaire in Putin's Russia is part of the this kleptocracy and yet Britain welcomes them with open arms. It let's them buy storied sports franchises like Chelsea FC and insinuate themselves in the richest enclaves of London.
Putin relies of his facilitators in Russia to remain in power. They know how fickle and vindictive he is and that things can turn on them at any time. As long as they think they have an 'out' of moving to a lavish expatriate's life in London, there is no incentive for them to press for legitimate reform in Russia.
No wonder Putin thinks he can act with impunity on British soil; he considers it part of his property.
It's probably much more than Putin anticipated when he sent one of agents to poison a former double agent with a nerve toxin to spike the final week of his reelection campaign. Still, as insular and exonophobic a Russia is, this will only have limited effect on restraining Putin.
If Britain really want to put some pressure the Russians it should end its practice of being a safe haven for Russian Oligarchs who have fallen out of favour with Putin and as a base for money laundering operations for Putin and his Cronies vast loot.
Anyone who has made himself a billionaire in Putin's Russia is part of the this kleptocracy and yet Britain welcomes them with open arms. It let's them buy storied sports franchises like Chelsea FC and insinuate themselves in the richest enclaves of London.
Putin relies of his facilitators in Russia to remain in power. They know how fickle and vindictive he is and that things can turn on them at any time. As long as they think they have an 'out' of moving to a lavish expatriate's life in London, there is no incentive for them to press for legitimate reform in Russia.
No wonder Putin thinks he can act with impunity on British soil; he considers it part of his property.
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