Ontario to double amount of ethanol in gasoline

taxslave

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Nov 25, 2008
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Well, while I agree with you in principle, more food production won't solve the problem because the problem is in the distribution. And well quite frankly, also in the amount of food waste, particularly in the West. Seriously, the amount of food that we North Americans toss in the trash every year would feed every starving person on the planet.

That's why I mentioned cellulosic ethanol previously. If we're going to go the ethanol route anyway, cellulosic ethanol would let farmers double-end the sale of their crops. They can use the same land to grow food AND fuel at the same time since the chaff is what would be used in the manufacturing of cellulosic ethanol.

I am aware of that. It is the principle more than anything. People whine about turning farmland into strip malls and subdivisions yet are perfectly willing to divert good land to growing a third rate fuel.
There is a perfectly good methanol plant sitting idle in Kitamat that runs on biomass. Works at least as well as ethanol for fuels.
 

Hoid

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at 320 km/hr

they probably get 5 miles to the gallon at lower speeds
 

Twin_Moose

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Apr 17, 2017
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I am aware of that. It is the principle more than anything. People whine about turning farmland into strip malls and subdivisions yet are perfectly willing to divert good land to growing a third rate fuel.
There is a perfectly good methanol plant sitting idle in Kitamat that runs on biomass. Works at least as well as ethanol for fuels.

How would biomass be inserted into Gasoline? I'm not being sarcastic I truly want to know
 

Walter

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Jan 28, 2007
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Well, while I agree with you in principle, more food production won't solve the problem because the problem is in the distribution. And well quite frankly, also in the amount of food waste, particularly in the West. Seriously, the amount of food that we North Americans toss in the trash every year would feed every starving person on the planet.

That's why I mentioned cellulosic ethanol previously. If we're going to go the ethanol route anyway, cellulosic ethanol would let farmers double-end the sale of their crops. They can use the same land to grow food AND fuel at the same time since the chaff is what would be used in the manufacturing of cellulosic ethanol.
There is no starvation in the world because of food production, the only starvation occurs in corrupt political environments.

NAscar runs E85.

NASCAR gets its fuel directly from the tanker, not from an underground tank that has been contaminated with water.
 

Hoid

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The so-called flex cars and trucks can run on anything up to 100% ethanol.

Engines can be adapted to produce the same mileage with anything from pure gas to pure ethanol - theoretically. Because ethanol is higher octane it will allow the engine to run at higher compression which makes the engines more efficient so that the lower energy value of the fuel is compensated for.
 

Jinentonix

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The so-called flex cars and trucks can run on anything up to 100% ethanol.

Engines can be adapted to produce the same mileage with anything from pure gas to pure ethanol - theoretically. Because ethanol is higher octane it will allow the engine to run at higher compression which makes the engines more efficient so that the lower energy value of the fuel is compensated for.
Still doesn't take care of the ozone, formaldehyde and acetaldehyde problems.

Let me give you a couple of examples. A study by atmospheric scientists at Stanford University found that E85 fuel would increase the risk of air pollution deaths relative to gasoline by 9% in Los Angeles. Ozone levels are significantly increased, thereby increasing photo-chemical smog and aggravating medical problems such as asthma and other respiratory issues.

Brazil burns significant amounts of E85. Gas chromatograph studies were performed of ambient air in São Paulo, Brazil, and compared to Osaka, Japan, which does not burn ethanol fuel. Atmospheric formaldehyde was 160% higher in Brazil, and acetaldehyde was 260% higher.
 

petros

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Nov 21, 2008
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The fermentation of the grain produces CO2, burning the ethanol creates CO2 and the high protein mash that remains which is fed to cattle creates methane.

This does nothing for emissions.
 
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Walter

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The fermentation of the grain produces CO2, burning the ethanol creates CO2 and the high protein mash that remains is fed to cattle creates methane.

This does nothing for emissions.
Stop telling us facts.
 

Hoid

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Whatever. The percentage of ethanol in gasoline reduces the caloric value but raises the compression at which an engine will run.


The higher compression increases engine efficiency such that the lower caloric value of the fuel is compensated for.
 

Hoid

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The world is not starving because there is not enough food.

That is a falsehood.

The world could be made to produce enough food to feed hundreds of billions of people. The "carrying capacity" of the planet is not even being approached.