Shooting at Ft. Lauderdale Airport

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
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I would assume he will be losing his seat.
Klansmen in South Carolina don't lose their seats for "correcting" their wives. They get held up as good Christian husbands and fathers.

Q: What do you say to a woman with two black eyes?

A: Nuthin'. Heck, y'all already told her twice!
 

davesmom

Council Member
Oct 11, 2015
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Ya, cause we definitely can't be looking in the mirror to find the answer as to why an Iraqi war veteran went off the deep end. It's gotta be someone elses fault. It's gotta be those scary "mooslems".



Yeah, so what's with all this PTSD the veterans are perceived to suffer from?
The veterans of 2 WWs saw and did things that were as horrible as the Iraqi veteran. Nobody coddled them. They did what they had to do, came home (if the were lucky enough) and got on with their lives.
The difference is that the old time veterans were sent to do a job the best way they could. They didn't have lily livered bosses sitting in offices thousands of miles away calling the shots.
Having a job to do and having their hand tied by orders from people like Obama and Clinton on how to do it is most likely what causes PTSD!
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
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Yeah, so what's with all this PTSD the veterans are perceived to suffer from?
The veterans of 2 WWs saw and did things that were as horrible as the Iraqi veteran. Nobody coddled them. They did what they had to do, came home (if the were lucky enough) and got on with their lives.
The difference is that the old time veterans were sent to do a job the best way they could. They didn't have lily livered bosses sitting in offices thousands of miles away calling the shots.
Having a job to do and having their hand tied by orders from people like Obama and Clinton on how to do it is most likely what causes PTSD!
In WW11 they called it shell shock. It changed to PTSD after Vietnam. My dad had shell shock. He was told to forget what happened and to never speak of it. So he spent his life stuffing the horror down, but every once in a while, he would explode into violence and beat on us in a rage. So, no, you don't have a fukking clue about the horrors of PTSD. As usual, you really don't have a clue about much.
 

PoliticalNick

The Troll Bashing Troll
Mar 8, 2011
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'Reached out' is the most limp wristed term I now hear for 'contacting' someone. It (reached out) is a further demonstration of the feminization of the limp wristed media.........



That has to be the most gay picture of him ever :lol::lol::lol:
 

bluebyrd35

Council Member
Aug 9, 2008
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Obama has not reached out to the Gov. of Florida

Trump has.

Well... that's Obama!
J.C,,,,,The Republicans and Trump will never change your gun laws and the relatives of the dead and the injured and their relatives. I am sure do not give a shyte about Trump reaching out to them. A Veteran hearing voices was allowed to keep his gun and not on the no fly list. The gun laws in the US are useless and the stats are so far about the rest of the worlds as to be a standing joke,

Oh and don't forget which party blocked every change to the gun laws. Talk about blind and deaf most people are, A President who fought vigorously to changes in the gun laws was blocked at every turn by the Republicans and the party that blocked every attempt to change them, bloody well should reach out and apologize and do it on their knees.
 
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gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
25,756
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Yeah, so what's with all this PTSD the veterans are perceived to suffer from?
The veterans of 2 WWs saw and did things that were as horrible as the Iraqi veteran. Nobody coddled them. They did what they had to do, came home (if the were lucky enough) and got on with their lives.
The difference is that the old time veterans were sent to do a job the best way they could. They didn't have lily livered bosses sitting in offices thousands of miles away calling the shots.
Having a job to do and having their hand tied by orders from people like Obama and Clinton on how to do it is most likely what causes PTSD!


I must concur with what Cliffy has so eloquently already stated.


You, once again, have proven that you don't have a fu cking clue what you are talking about.
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
21,513
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'Reached out' is the most limp wristed term I now hear for 'contacting' someone. It (reached out) is a further demonstration of the feminization of the limp wristed media.........






230 lbs pitcher Quintana also shows limp wrist form:







not too many gonna challenge him on that ;)
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
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Interestingly, he claimed to be a born again Christian in his facebook page which has now been deleted.


https://www.facebook.com/people/Esteban-Santiago/100000492021832

You do understand that the FB page that you linked to is a different Esteban Santiago and not the shooter.

Gopher... you're one of those people that do irresponsible sh*t like this!

Is there room in his life for yet another man?


Oh look... a bigot war herooooo!

Interestingly, he claimed to be a born again Christian in his facebook page which has now been deleted.


https://www.facebook.com/people/Esteban-Santiago/100000492021832

From Estaban Santiago's FB page...

Prayers for all those involved in the Fort Lauderdale shooting.


Thank you to all my family and friends who showed me love and support during this difficult time. As you all know, I am NOT the shooter. My face has been exposed to unwanted places and my family has been getting some unwanted attention, but we are doing fine.

To those whom have jumped to the most insane conclusions: I forgive you. In the future, please educate yourselves on ALL the facts because spreading rumors about people you do not know does hurt. Thank you.

Good job Gopher!
 

Scooby

Electoral Member
Mar 22, 2012
403
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Yeah, so what's with all this PTSD the veterans are perceived to suffer from?
The veterans of 2 WWs saw and did things that were as horrible as the Iraqi veteran. Nobody coddled them. They did what they had to do, came home (if the were lucky enough) and got on with their lives.
The difference is that the old time veterans were sent to do a job the best way they could. They didn't have lily livered bosses sitting in offices thousands of miles away calling the shots.
Having a job to do and having their hand tied by orders from people like Obama and Clinton on how to do it is most likely what causes PTSD!

I have to try to draw parallels here as well. Could it be that the soldiers of the great wars got to come home to meaningful occupation and were honoured for their efforts? Nowadays they are treated as victims and in some cases outcasts, the soldier does not fit in todays society, small wonder they suffer from mental illness.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
25,756
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83
I have to try to draw parallels here as well. Could it be that the soldiers of the great wars got to come home to meaningful occupation and were honoured for their efforts? Nowadays they are treated as victims and in some cases outcasts, the soldier does not fit in todays society, small wonder they suffer from mental illness.



Before you completely join davesmom in the kindergarten class...... educate yourself.


The history of forgetting, from shell shock to PTSD - Hindsight - ABC Radio National (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3181586/
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
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I have to try to draw parallels here as well. Could it be that the soldiers of the great wars got to come home to meaningful occupation and were honoured for their efforts? Nowadays they are treated as victims and in some cases outcasts, the soldier does not fit in todays society, small wonder they suffer from mental illness.

A lot of the WWII veterans had issues.That was my parent's generation and there were plenty of them around, when I was a kid. One thing that has changed is that they all came from a much meaner, tougher world of the depression and often of immmigration on top of it, so what do you blame for them being a little bonkers?

A small incident that happened to me: I was a real blondie, tow-headed kid. I am 99.9% Celt with a smattering of Low German that goes right back to be early European history of this continent. I look like a fair Celt but there is a proven genetic connection between that group and the continental Germans, so I might also look German, if that is what you are expecting.

I was going into my high school for, I think was a band concert. A band mate pulled up in a car driven by his Dad, a Brit, and the father rolled down the window and started screaming at me like a mad man. I had never met him, had very little contact with his son and done exactly nothing to justify the attack. It was truly out of the blue. I discerned after that his father thought that I looked German and therefore he freaked right out on me, giving me what every German deserved. I never heard his story. Was he a POW? Did he lose his family to a German bomb? Did he liberate Bergen Belsen? I will never know. Suffice to say, he was "war wounded" ... still able to function as a middle class Candian but obviously, looking back, seriously PTSD.
 
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davesmom

Council Member
Oct 11, 2015
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I have to try to draw parallels here as well. Could it be that the soldiers of the great wars got to come home to meaningful occupation and were honoured for their efforts? Nowadays they are treated as victims and in some cases outcasts, the soldier does not fit in todays society, small wonder they suffer from mental illness.


You bring up a good point. Yes the oldtime veterans did come back to a different welcome. They WERE heroes and everyone respected them,.
I remember. I was there.


There was a sense of unity in the war support that enveloped the whole country. Everyone joined in in some small way to contribute according to their abilities. Veterans were given preference for jobs and they were helped with housing and granted low or interest free loans to get a fresh start.


Still, those veterans witnessed and came through inhumane conditions that most of us cannot even imagine. Most of them were changed in some way too. Most of them were reluctant to talk about it. But they managed to live productive lives.


Their fight for freedom was not hampered by rules of engagement and yet they still treated prisoners of war humanely and avoided civilian casualties whenever possible.
I believe the governments that send their troops to war are to blame for the losses and for their ineffectiveness in conquering the enemy. and for the disdain and poor treatment of veterans too.


When sending men and women to war it is government's responsibility to make sure they have the tools to do the job; that means not just equipment but the psychological tools as well. The battlefield is not a place for moral judgments or pc.
It is government's responsibility to make sure the returning veteran's needs are met.
As educators, it is the government's responsibility to see that history is taught so that the younger generations are aware of the price paid for their freedoms.


Gen. Eisenhower is quoted as saying, 'take lots of pictures so the world never forgets'. Well what good are the pictures if they are not shown, explained and kept on display. Apathy has allowed the world to forget. And we will all pay the price.
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
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You bring up a good point. Yes the oldtime veterans did come back to a different welcome. They WERE heroes and everyone respected them,.
I remember. I was there.


There was a sense of unity in the war support that enveloped the whole country. Everyone joined in in some small way to contribute according to their abilities. Veterans were given preference for jobs and they were helped with housing and granted low or interest free loans to get a fresh start.


Still, those veterans witnessed and came through inhumane conditions that most of us cannot even imagine. Most of them were changed in some way too. Most of them were reluctant to talk about it. But they managed to live productive lives.


Their fight for freedom was not hampered by rules of engagement and yet they still treated prisoners of war humanely and avoided civilian casualties whenever possible.
I believe the governments that send their troops to war are to blame for the losses and for their ineffectiveness in conquering the enemy. and for the disdain and poor treatment of veterans too.


When sending men and women to war it is government's responsibility to make sure they have the tools to do the job; that means not just equipment but the psychological tools as well. The battlefield is not a place for moral judgments or pc.
It is government's responsibility to make sure the returning veteran's needs are met.
As educators, it is the government's responsibility to see that history is taught so that the younger generations are aware of the price paid for their freedoms.


Gen. Eisenhower is quoted as saying, 'take lots of pictures so the world never forgets'. Well what good are the pictures if they are not shown, explained and kept on display. Apathy has allowed the world to forget. And we will all pay the price.

Canadian soldiers have come home to a generally positive welcome. Not so much in the US, though. There are still problems but the welcome and support of the community must make a positive difference, as you have observed.
 

davesmom

Council Member
Oct 11, 2015
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@Curious Cdn. I too was bullied and treated horribly at school because I bore a German name. The popular schoolyard game was called 'Nazis' and I was the designated 'Nazi'. Even though my older brother was in the RCAF and several other relatives were with various units overseas.
That was children being cruel as children can be and it was quickly put to a stop when the adults, particularly my parents found out what was going on.


Some of my relatives were KIA. My brother returned home, my sister married a 'returned' man, one cousin married an Italian girl when in Italy, another brought home an English war bride. None of them were turned into monsters by their war experiences.


There are exceptions to every rule and nastiness was one of the exceptions. It doesn't seem fair to accuse everyone of being like that when 99% of the public was pulling together and supportive.
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
9,949
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kelowna bc
Thinking about this I ask myself how come we can afford investigations into the
aftermath of an incident .We can afford to train people in the art of war and killing,
does anyone know how much all that costs? The excuse it is always the same
there are not enough resources to go round. This guy who did serve his nation
actually went and told people what was happening to him, he wanted help for
something that couldn't wait.
Some say he planned it over time. That merely demonstrates how out of control he.
was. If they prosecute this guy in criminal court In my opinion based on today's
facts society should be put on trial as well and those who didn't help this guy should
pay one hell of a price. He served his country and his country let him down.

I also ask what kind of logic allows gun toten folks to carry weapons in their luggage
guns they can retrieve in the airport exit area. If they are transporting weapons via plane
they should have to pick them up from a cargo office away from the airport
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
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@Curious Cdn. I too was bullied and treated horribly at school because I bore a German name. The popular schoolyard game was called 'Nazis' and I was the designated 'Nazi'. Even though my older brother was in the RCAF and several other relatives were with various units overseas.
That was children being cruel as children can be and it was quickly put to a stop when the adults, particularly my parents found out what was going on.


Some of my relatives were KIA. My brother returned home, my sister married a 'returned' man, one cousin married an Italian girl when in Italy, another brought home an English war bride. None of them were turned into monsters by their war experiences.


There are exceptions to every rule and nastiness was one of the exceptions. It doesn't seem fair to accuse everyone of being like that when 99% of the public was pulling together and supportive.

My sister-in-law comes from a big, Irish Catholic family ... 8 kids ... four of whom were pre-war and four were postwar baby boomers. Dad joined up and commanded a Sherman tank (Italian theatre, I think) which was a stressful, deadly dangerous occupation. He came back "changed" and friendly Dad for the first half of the brood was remembered as abusive dad who got into the habit of beating up the second half.

The welcome was friendly. PTSD did exist. I remember lots of veterans drinking themselves to death. I lived right near the big Veterans Hospital in Ste Anne-de-Bellvue Quebec and it was not uncommon to find a dead veteran on your doorstep, in that village.

My uncle was a Captain in the Canadian Army who worked on weaponizing Anthrax on Grosse Isle and he caught it ... and survived (barely). His life was pure crap after that and he became a abusive alcoholic, too. I would suspect PTSD in his case because no one else in the family, including his father, was like that.