Brad Wall's still blowing smoke on climate change

mentalfloss

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Jun 28, 2010
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Not at all. A higher gas tax encourages suburbanites to move closer to work and shopping and businesses to move closer to the workers and consumers to reduce transportation costs due to the higehr gas tax, no? So in fact a higher gas tax affects the free market independently of how the government then spends the money.

Of course the government could further improve the situation by building more walking and cycling paths, but even without that, people will still want to move closer to work and shops natrually.

A carbon tax requires specific activity from the government on investment from the tax revenue.

It's not like other taxes.

1. I do not deny climate change. I just think peak oil is an even more serious concern.

2. I do not deny oil subsidies exist and ought to be cut altogether.

3. I do not deny that carbon pricing reduces emissions. In fact, I support carbon pricing.

4. You are not petros but yes it's nice to see another rational person on this forum.
 

Machjo

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A carbon tax requires specific activity from the government on investment from the tax revenue.

It's not like other taxes.

Obviously if the revenue from a gas tax just goes towards subsidizing the gas industry, that would undermine its benefit. We could also improve its effect by promoting more pedestrian and cyclist-friendly urban planning by investing that revenue into walking and cycling paths for example.

But even if the government did not change its spending habits at all, it's just common sense that if you pay less income tax and more gas tax, you now have a greater incentive to live closer to work, no? So even just the tax itself without any change in government spending habits, all other factors remaining equal, encourages people to use their cars less. That's just straight logic.
 

Machjo

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So waht did you mean by 'requires specific activity from the government?' I read that to mean that a gas tax cannot be beneficial in its own right. Maybe I misunderstood you then.
 

mentalfloss

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Shhh, important people talking now.

So waht did you mean by 'requires specific activity from the government?' I read that to mean that a gas tax cannot be beneficial in its own right. Maybe I misunderstood you then.

You can have both.

You can have a tax that simply acts as general revenue or one where the revenue needs to be directed somewhere. And even that tax that might be for a specific purpose may also (as you've stated) have general value by merely being collected.
 
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petros

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That's because of exorbitant real estate costs. I'm sure it would be even worse without the gas tax. The gas tax creates a pressure on workers to move closer to work or, if they can't afford it, for companies to move out to the suburbs or pay higher wages to make travel costs worthwhile.
Sorry. The further east you in Metro Van the closer you are to 40 cents a litre cheaper gasoline with no Carbon tax from in Washington State.
Sorry. The further east you in Metro Van the closer you are to 40 cents a litre cheaper gasoline with no Carbon tax from in Washington State.
 

Cannuck

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You do have a point there. In that sense, I would prefer that the carbon tax apply directly to the extraction company's profits ratehr than at the consumer end. That way, the tax applies to all carbon extracted in Canada before it even reaches market, domestic or otherwise...

Why do we need to tax carbon if it's no longer a significant problem?
 

Machjo

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Sorry. The further east you in Metro Van the closer you are to 40 cents a litre cheaper gasoline with no Carbon tax from in Washington State.


Then you have an incentive for businesses to move near the border too. Hey, why not suck the US dry instead of of us if the US is stupid enough to allow us to do it?

Like I said, maybe an extractor-end tax would be preferable to a consumer-end tax. That way, we could still get cheap imported gas while leaving our own gas in the ground for a rainy day.
 

mentalfloss

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Tax revenue is used to support carbon reduction initiatives and incentivize people and corporations to use less CO2 through tax rebates.

It worked brilliantly in BC.
 

Cannuck

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Tax revenue is used to support carbon reduction initiatives and incentivize people and corporations to use less CO2...

Unnecessary since the technology exists now to curtail carbon emissions. You want to tax people to solve a problem that doesn't exist
 

Machjo

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I think the confusion is this. In BC, it was a tax shift. Though Mentalfloss is using it as an example and supports it in principle, I think he would have preferred that it served as a tax increase.
 

mentalfloss

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Unnecessary since the technology exists now to curtail carbon emissions. You want to tax people to solve a problem that doesn't exist

Oh you think just having invented the tech is good enough.

Cute.
 

Machjo

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Unnecessary since the technology exists now to curtail carbon emissions. You want to tax people to solve a problem that doesn't exist

It's not just about emissions but also about limit availability of the resource. A tax on extraccted non-renewable resources would discourage its extraction and so increase the incentive to produce it instead of just extracing it.
 

mentalfloss

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It's not just about emissions but also about limit availability of the resource. A tax on extraccted non-renewable resources would discourage its extraction and so increase the incentive to produce it instead of just extracing it.

Don't confuse him with logic.

He thinks an entire industry can just flourish from tech that was invented this month.
 

Cannuck

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It's not just about emissions but also about limit availability of the resource. A tax on extraccted non-renewable resources would discourage its extraction and so increase the incentive to produce it instead of just extracing it.

What's wrong with using coal generators if its ends up being the cheapest and isn't adding CO2 to the atmosphere? Hint, this technology will finish coal and natural gas as power generators