1 dead in Charlotte protest; police say they didn’t shoot

davesmom

Council Member
Oct 11, 2015
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Black lives do matter, all lives matter. There is no doubt that something is very wrong in the US, too many blacks are being killed. I totally disagree with the rioting, stealing, vandals, and violence though. There are issues with cops killing black men, but there is also a much bigger problem with people having issues with authority and order. How many blacks kill other blacks? The ratio between 'cops killing blacks' and 'blacks killing blacks' shows a much different picture. There has to be a balance.



Yes, all lives do matter. There are too many people getting killed, not just black people. The difference is, when a non-black is killed there is no rioting over it. If he was doing something dangerous, his fellow citizens understand that he probably deserved it.
When a black man is killed, the black community, in typical tribal fashion, immediately defend him and place the blame on the police They won't turn each other in like civilized people should or admit that he might have been afoul of the law.


It's not right for police to shoot an unarmed man, that's for sure, but when a suspect is behaving in a dangerous way and gets shot there is no use trying to defend him even though he might be your 'brother'.
 

Corduroy

Senate Member
Feb 9, 2011
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I am confused about that too. I thought policing was a State responsibility. From what I hear Clinton say, she seems to think it should be taken over by the Feds.
I think Trump is more in line on the matter, backing up the States in their methods of training, equipment, etc.

There are some laws and regulations that are the federal government's jurisdiction and they occasionally get involved. Drug laws, for example, can involve the feds, or civil rights violations.

But that's the trouble. Some people blame Obama or expect him to do something, but he can't do much else but give his opinion.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Mar 18, 2013
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I am confused about that too. I thought policing was a State responsibility. From what I hear Clinton say, she seems to think it should be taken over by the Feds.
I think Trump is more in line on the matter, backing up the States in their methods of training, equipment, etc.
It's Federal, state, and local (counties and cities). Generally, the Federal police agencies (FBI, DEA, BATF) are permitted only to enforce Federal law.

As you thought, the primary authorizing authority for the ordinary cop on the beat is the state, though she is probably organized as a city or county police force. The structure is established by state law. These cops (and the state police) are empowered to enforce Federal and state laws, and city/county ordinances.

As a practical matter, the cop on the beat ultimately answers to the the chief of police of her force, who answers to the mayor or county executive, in terms of her employment and discipline. If her actions are deemed criminal, she will be tried by the state or the Federal government, depending on whether the crime is state or Federal.

As another practical matter, almost all Federal law violations are also state crimes, so a local cop can arrest you, and let the state's attorney's office and the Fed sort out the prosecutions later.

One of the advantages of a national police force like the Irish Gardai, or a quasi-national force like the RCMP, is that it generally has a better "boots to suits" ratio than our ridiculous mishmash of agencies.

Yes, all lives do matter. There are too many people getting killed, not just black people. The difference is, when a non-black is killed there is no rioting over it. If he was doing something dangerous, his fellow citizens understand that he probably deserved it.
When a black man is killed, the black community, in typical tribal fashion, immediately defend him and place the blame on the police They won't turn each other in like civilized people should or admit that he might have been afoul of the law.


It's not right for police to shoot an unarmed man, that's for sure, but when a suspect is behaving in a dangerous way and gets shot there is no use trying to defend him even though he might be your 'brother'.
From my point of view, the problem is the police are taught to shoot if they see a gun. Soldiers are taught to take cover first. This allows them a few more seconds to assess the situation, and allows them to fire more accurately, if fire they must.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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davesmom

Council Member
Oct 11, 2015
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As some have said a few posts ago.....Obama don't get involved, has no say in local affairs.....
Oh Yeah?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAPtUfOs7Gs



Obama has made so many racist remarks I don't see how anyone can dismiss him as anything else but a racist. His wife is even more so.
It has gone so far that crimes now committed by blacks are not reported in depth. I have seen reports of shootings within the past few weeks for which the suspects are black men and yet those incidents have not been mentioned since. One that comes readily to mind is the murder of two white nuns.
Obama never comments on any of the usual crimes that take place regularly in the U.S. unless they are police shootings of black. Then he's all over it.

There are some laws and regulations that are the federal government's jurisdiction and they occasionally get involved. Drug laws, for example, can involve the feds, or civil rights violations.

But that's the trouble. Some people blame Obama or expect him to do something, but he can't do much else but give his opinion.


Probably Congress could amend the law giving more Federal jurisdiction. That's what I think Hillary indicated that she has in mind.
 

davesmom

Council Member
Oct 11, 2015
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There are some laws and regulations that are the federal government's jurisdiction and they occasionally get involved. Drug laws, for example, can involve the feds, or civil rights violations.

But that's the trouble. Some people blame Obama or expect him to do something, but he can't do much else but give his opinion.

I doubt congress would care to act on this.


I hope you are right. But wouldn't that depend on whether or not the Republicans or Democrats have the majority in Congress? And then, there's always the 'Executive Orders' that Obama used so profusely.
OH, my mistake. Only Congress can amend laws I think.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
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Not a good day for the Officer that shot him.

(in part)
The officer involved in the shooting death of Terence Crutcher in Tulsa, Oklahoma has been charged with 1st degree manslaughter.

Local district attorney Stephen Kunzweiler announced the charges against officer Betty Shelby on Thursday afternoon. "A warrant has been issued for her arrest," Kunzweiler said, adding that "arrangements are being made for her surrender to the Tulsa County Sheriffs Department."

Read more: https://sputniknews.com/us/20160922/1045608712/tulsa-cop-charged.html
 

IdRatherBeSkiing

Satelitte Radio Addict
May 28, 2007
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Not a good day for the Officer that shot him.

(in part)
The officer involved in the shooting death of Terence Crutcher in Tulsa, Oklahoma has been charged with 1st degree manslaughter.

Local district attorney Stephen Kunzweiler announced the charges against officer Betty Shelby on Thursday afternoon. "A warrant has been issued for her arrest," Kunzweiler said, adding that "arrangements are being made for her surrender to the Tulsa County Sheriffs Department."

Read more: https://sputniknews.com/us/20160922/1045608712/tulsa-cop-charged.html

Wrong state. This thread is about the one in NC.

But from what I have read and heard (I was not actually there either T-bones) about that one, he should be charged.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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My bad, one post near the top about a car parked in the middle of the road was why I posted it here. Neither is a good thing for harmony between the Police and the Public.
 

davesmom

Council Member
Oct 11, 2015
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I don't see why you hope nothing gets done about this. Or would rather this get solved on the state level?





I have two lines of thought.
Yes I would like something to be done. But I don't like the idea of Federal powers diminishing the State's authority in such matters as policing, education, etc.
Smaller jurisdictions have more chance of keeping control. Federal intervention into State policies could easily create duplications and/or confusion.


What I see now is authorities at all levels running in circles without a real clue what should be done or what could be done to improve race relations. With the election looming and each party vying for the black vote, they are not painting the overall picture.
The overall picture is not merely a problem of white racism; there is a good deal of black racism against white that is unjustified and seems to have been carried down through generations. I think that needs to be recognized and addressed.
Also the problem of black fatherless children born to women with different fathers for each child and the lack of family stability in its entirety.


There needs to be more listening and less talking from each side. Both black and white have to be brought to a compromise.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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So Cliffy. Do you feel that all authority in my country are corrupt thugs as all your memes insinuate? Without exception?
There are exceptions to every rule. But to protect and serve in your country, as well as in mine, means of rthe rich and the poor, they can fend for themselves or be used for target practice. Doesn't the militarization of the police give you pause for concern?
 

Ludlow

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Jun 7, 2014
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There are exceptions to every rule. But to protect and serve in your country, as well as in mine, means of rthe rich and the poor, they can fend for themselves or be used for target practice. Doesn't the militarization of the police give you pause for concern?
There is always concern in times of chaos and always those who jump to conclusions. We'll see how this plays out .
 

Dixie Cup

Senate Member
Sep 16, 2006
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I see it a mite different.

First off, Presidents can't change the country, no matter what we'd like to think. Just like Johnson didn't make racism go away when he signed the Civil Rights Acts, Obama didn't create racism or bring it back

I think there were two factors at work in the resurgence of racism, and only one of them's related to Obama. One's the fact that seeing a black man in the Oval Office was a red rag to an otherwise calm bull. Just because he's calm at the moment don't mean he ain't still a bull. Only takes a red rag.

The other one is economic hard times. Things have changed, period. It is simply no longer possible to sleep your way through high school, then get a factory job that pays well enough to allow you to support a wife and family and buy a house. And it never will be again. Even if Trump does bring all the manufacturing back to America, The day of the 10,000-man plant is done. It's now a 400-man plant where the men watch over and direct the robots. And the robot punchers ain't dumbass high school jocks.

In economic hard times, folks turn on each other. Skin color, accent, church, even which of two adjacent towns they live in.

As far as the violence, it's nothing new. Here's the simple truth: the police in America have always been liars, and have always been bigots. Poor people have never gotten a fair shake, and minorities ain't either. The difference now is ubiquitous cell-phone cameras are showing how the cops lie.

Waking up from your comfy dream of Officer Friendly ain't fun. But it's probably good for you in the long run.


I agree that Obama alone isn't nor could be responsible for all that has happened but I also believe that he has not taken a strong enough stand against the violence that is happening. Obviously, a President can't personally "handle" what people say or do but they can be instrumental in directing public opinion on racial (and other) matters. I don't see that Obama has done that. I see him as an extremely weak President and it shows both domestically and internationally. That's where I was coming from for the most part.



JMHO
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
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Washington DC
I have two lines of thought.
Yes I would like something to be done. But I don't like the idea of Federal powers diminishing the State's authority in such matters as policing, education, etc.
Smaller jurisdictions have more chance of keeping control. Federal intervention into State policies could easily create duplications and/or confusion.


What I see now is authorities at all levels running in circles without a real clue what should be done or what could be done to improve race relations. With the election looming and each party vying for the black vote, they are not painting the overall picture.
The overall picture is not merely a problem of white racism; there is a good deal of black racism against white that is unjustified and seems to have been carried down through generations. I think that needs to be recognized and addressed.
Also the problem of black fatherless children born to women with different fathers for each child and the lack of family stability in its entirety.


There needs to be more listening and less talking from each side. Both black and white have to be brought to a compromise.
I'm non-white, grew up fatherless, and own guns. I guess the cops oughta shoot me on sight.