Your thoughts on official unilingualism?

[Machjo]

Let people realize the implications of such a situation.

It would be a law 101 to the power 10. Bill 101 is seen as the worst indignities done to the Quebec anglophone while this law does restraindre only access to English primary and secondary schools for immigrants.

The loss of services for all English speaking people is something else. ;-)

Yes, but Québec would probably choose to lighten Bill 101 in exchange.

For example, no guaranteed right to service in English, but if the officer, physician, etc. knows English, then let him speak it.

Besides, the next generation of English speakers would all know French.

Bill 101 is draconian and contrary to the Canadian constitution. That, however, has never been the concern of the self centred québécois.

I think Bill 101 is excessive. But there is a difference between no longer imposing English on the government (which is a form of libéralisation) and imposing it on the private sector (a form of imposition).

 

[Queb]

Yes, but Québec would probably choose to lighten Bill 101 in exchange.

For example, no guaranteed right to service in English, but if the officer, physician, etc. knows English, then let him speak it.

Besides, the next generation of English speakers would all know French.



I think Bill 101 is excessive. But there is a difference between no longer imposing English on the government (which is a form of libéralisation) and imposing it on the private sector (a form of imposition).

Their is nothing preventing an employee of the government to speak english with someone. Bill 101 do not cover this.

 

[Machjo]

There, I voted, and I disagree.

F we have English as the official language federally, that would mean all federal services would only be available in English. How are the québécois going to like that?

I meant Federal services unilingual in the language of the province.

Or would only apply to the rest of Canada, as we all know the québécois really don't give a rats a$$ about French Canadians out side of la belle province.

Now answer the question, or will this be another one you skirt around and don't answer.

Apply it Canada-wide.

If Nunavut wants to serve only in Inuktitut, why not?

We're not talking private sector here, but government taxpayer money.

Like I said, Québec would probably lighten Bill 101 in the private sector in exchange.

80% support, not bad.

 

[Queb]

Bill 101 is draconian and contrary to the Canadian constitution. That, however, has never been the concern of the self centred québécois.

You know, since the beginning of the federation, the rights of french poeples have been violated all over canada.
Event today, french people needs to go up to supreme court only to obtain the seme level of service as the english kids in the existing french school.

Bill 101 have been attacked at the supreme court and have been butchered. Now supreme court have no more to say.,.. what is remaining comply with the constitution. Constitution that Quebec did not sign.

 

[Machjo]

You know, since the beginning of the federation, the rights of french poeples have been violated all over canada.
Event today, french people needs to go up to supreme court only to obtain the seme level of service as the english kids in the existing french school.

Bill 101 have been attacked at the supreme court and have been butchered. Now supreme court have no more to say.,.. what is remaining comply with the constitution. Constitution that Quebec did not sign.

French rights have been violated in the past, now, we are very well treated considering our population.

Remove French rights in the ROC and more money could go to sign-language services or indigenous languages which need it far more.

Same if we remove English rights in Quebec. Others need it more, like the Deaf and indigenous.

In exchange, Québec could liberalise the private sector more.

Plus if English remains a compulsory second language in Quebec schools, then bilingual English speakers could get those jobs too.

 

[Queb]

French rights have been violated in the past, now, we are very well treated considering our population.

Remove French rights in the ROC and more money could go to sign-language services or indigenous languages which need it far more.

Same if we remove English rights in Quebec. Others need it more, like the Deaf and indigenous.

In exchange, Québec could liberalise the private sector more.

Plus if English remains a compulsory second language in Quebec schools, then bilingual English speakers could get those jobs too.

No. The french rights are still violated in ROC.

The french people start to get services only when it have been clear that they will not survive anyways and most of them was assimilated. Actually, the level of Francophone services in the ROC is not the shadow of what english peoples can get in Quebec.

 

[Machjo]

No. The french rights are still violated in ROC.

The french people start to get services only when it have been clear that they will not survive anyways and most of them was assimilated. Actually, the level of Francophone services in the ROC is not the shadow of what english peoples can get in Quebec.

In comparative terms, yes, English-speakers are better treated than French speakers in the ROC in the public sector due to the massive English-speaking population there. It has to do with economies of scale. Other provinces would go bankrupt providing the same quantity of service in French.

That said, in French South East Ontario, French service is just as good as in Quebec.

In the private sector though, French is far more accepted than English in Quebec due to bill 101 restrict it more in Quebec. Other languages are too, even Chinese.

Also, consider that even though French is only about the fifth language in BC, it still enjoys rights that Chinese, Punjabi, etc. could only dream of.

That said, I still support no longer imposing two languages on the government. One suffices. Leave the other languages to the private sector.

 

[Queb]

No. The french rights are still violated in ROC.

The french people start to get services only when it have been clear that they will not survive anyways and most of them was assimilated. Actually, the level of Francophone services in the ROC is not the shadow of what english peoples can get in Quebec.

"La Cour suprême a conclu que la province a enfreint le droit constitutionnel à l'instruction de la minorité francophone en mettant à sa disposition des installations de piètre qualité."

Francophone parents had to go to the Supreme Court so that their children get appropriate facilities in their school ....

Can you imagine that? just having decent Building ... and it took a decision of the Supreme Court for that.

and it's not in 1910 ....it happened in 2015.

Colombie-Britannique: victoire en Cour suprême pour une école francophone | Mélanie Marquis | Actualités judiciaires

In comparative terms, yes, English-speakers are better treated than French speakers in the ROC in the public sector due to the massive English-speaking population there. It has to do with economies of scale. Other provinces would go bankrupt providing the same quantity of service in French.

That said, in French South East Ontario, French service is just as good as in Quebec.

In the private sector though, French is far more accepted than English in Quebec due to bill 101 restrict it more in Quebec. Other languages are too, even Chinese.

Also, consider that even though French is only about the fifth language in BC, it still enjoys rights that Chinese, Punjabi, etc. could only dream of.

That said, I still support no longer imposing two languages on the government. One suffices. Leave the other languages to the private sector.

English community are still alive because they never been forced to be assimilated.

but anyways... just give to the french people decent services same to be too much

 

[Machjo]

"La Cour suprême a conclu que la province a enfreint le droit constitutionnel à l'instruction de la minorité francophone en mettant à sa disposition des installations de piètre qualité."

Francophone parents had to go to the Supreme Court so that their children get appropriate facilities in their school ....

Can you imagine that? just having decent Building ... and it took a decision of the Supreme Court for that.

and it's not in 1910 ....it happened in 2015.

Colombie-Britannique: victoire en Cour suprême pour une école francophone | Mélanie Marquis | Actualités judiciaires

Yes, but now you're talking Constitutional law. I'm talking basic justice. If each parent were given an equally valued school voucher, it would be even worse since the French school needs more money for specialised teachers, books, etc. Economies if scale undermine it.

Chinese far outnumbers French in BC yet they can only dream if the same treatment.

In short, the Constitution itself is too generous.

 

[Queb]

Yes, but now you're talking Constitutional law. I'm talking basic justice. If each parent were given an equally valued school voucher, it would be even worse since the French school needs more money for specialised teachers, books, etc. Economies if scale undermine it.

Chinese far outnumbers French in BC yet they can only dream if the same treatment.

In short, the Constitution itself is too generous.

I am talking about bill 101 restriction vs what french people can have in ROC.

But apparently, bill 101 is the worst thing ever for the english people in Quebec.

If you cut all services to the english people in Quebec.... it will be bad to see.

 

[Machjo]

"La Cour suprême a conclu que la province a enfreint le droit constitutionnel à l'instruction de la minorité francophone en mettant à sa disposition des installations de piètre qualité."

Francophone parents had to go to the Supreme Court so that their children get appropriate facilities in their school ....

Can you imagine that? just having decent Building ... and it took a decision of the Supreme Court for that.

and it's not in 1910 ....it happened in 2015.

Colombie-Britannique: victoire en Cour suprême pour une école francophone | Mélanie Marquis | Actualités judiciaires


English community are still alive because they never been forced to be assimilated.

but anyways... just give to the french people decent services same to be too much

Economies of scale make it more expensive.

I could agree with school vouchers, and that would be fair. Yet ironically, French language schools would be worse off. In Richmond, you'have more Chinese schools if you did that.

Québec could give d'ayant-droit school vouchers, sure, but the provincial tests should all be in French.

Same with tests in other provinces.

 

[Queb]

"La Cour suprême a conclu que la province a enfreint le droit constitutionnel à l'instruction de la minorité francophone en mettant à sa disposition des installations de piètre qualité."

Francophone parents had to go to the Supreme Court so that their children get appropriate facilities in their school ....

Can you imagine that? just having decent Building ... and it took a decision of the Supreme Court for that.

and it's not in 1910 ....it happened in 2015.

Colombie-Britannique: victoire en Cour suprême pour une école francophone | Mélanie Marquis | Actualités judiciaires


English community are still alive because they never been forced to be assimilated.

but anyways... just give to the french people decent services same to be too much

By the way, anglophones in Quebec represent 8% of the population. It's not what I call a "massive" proportion of the population.

Economies of scale make it more expensive.

I could agree with school vouchers, and that would be fair. Yet ironically, French language schools would be worse off. In Richmond, you'have more Chinese schools if you did that.

Québec could give d'ayant-droit school vouchers, sure, but the provincial tests should all be in French.

Same with tests in other provinces.

The "deal" was to have both founding nation equal in rights all over canada, coast to coast.

It never been respected. French people have been forced to be assimilated.

Economies of scale make it more expensive.

I could agree with school vouchers, and that would be fair. Yet ironically, French language schools would be worse off. In Richmond, you'have more Chinese schools if you did that.

Québec could give d'ayant-droit school vouchers, sure, but the provincial tests should all be in French.

Same with tests in other provinces.

Non

The peoples that had to go up to the supreme court did not asked for more services, they did not asked for more school. They asked just to get the same ressources in their schools than any other english school.

 

[Machjo]

I am talking about bill 101 restriction vs what french people can have in ROC.

But apparently, bill 101 is the worst thing ever for the english people in Quebec.

If you cut all services to the english people in Quebec.... it will be bad to see.

People exaggerate, but Bill 101 is excessive.

When we abalise it though, Bill 101 is even worse than abrogating the obligation provide government services in English.

If we cut services, we force English speakers to learn French. But aside from knowing French, they could theoretically be free to start their own businesses in English, Chinese or any other language like in the ROC.

But Bill 101 prevents a person from working in the language if his choice even after he learns French.

If we look at it that way, cutting public services in English but leaving the private sector alone would be more fair.

In the RIC you can do business in Chinese without English if you want to. In fact, it happens in Richmond BC.

 

[Queb]

People exaggerate, but Bill 101 is excessive.

When we abalise it though, Bill 101 is even worse than abrogating the obligation provide government services in English.

If we cut services, we force English speakers to learn French. But aside from knowing French, they could theoretically be free to start their own businesses in English, Chinese or any other language like in the ROC.

But Bill 101 prevents a person from working in the language if his choice even after he learns French.

If we look at it that way, cutting public services in English but leaving the private sector alone would be more fair.

In the RIC you can do business in Chinese without English if you want to. In fact, it happens in Richmond BC.

how bill 101 can be more excessive than abolish all services in english. Explain me.

People exaggerate, but Bill 101 is excessive.

When we abalise it though, Bill 101 is even worse than abrogating the obligation provide government services in English.

If we cut services, we force English speakers to learn French. But aside from knowing French, they could theoretically be free to start their own businesses in English, Chinese or any other language like in the ROC.

But Bill 101 prevents a person from working in the language if his choice even after he learns French.

If we look at it that way, cutting public services in English but leaving the private sector alone would be more fair.

In the RIC you can do business in Chinese without English if you want to. In fact, it happens in Richmond BC.

come on... anybody can start a business in the language he want in Quebec.

Actually, it happen often that I can't receive services in french in the stores because those people assume that everybody will talk to them in english.

I think that you have folkloric conception of what is bill 101.

 

[Machjo]

By the way, anglophones in Quebec represent 8% of the population. It's not what I call a "massive" proportion of the population.

But it is geographically concentrated. French in many parts if the ROC is very disperced.

The "deal" was to have both founding nation equal in rights all over canada, coast to coast.

It never been respected. French people have been forced to be assimilated.

True. But the deal itself was ill conceived.

Non

The peoples that had to go up to the supreme court did not asked for more services, they did not asked for more school. They asked just to get the same ressources in their schools than any other english school.

Ah, there is another part to this.

If the province gives the same amount if money per student, then French schools in Toronto or Vancouver will be inferior due to additional costs. To make them equal, per student funding must be much higher for French schools. As per the Constitution, you are correct.

I just disagree with the Constitution itself.

Give them an equal voucher is fair enough.

how bill 101 can be more excessive than abolish all services in english. Explain me.


come on... anybody can start a business in the language he want in Quebec.

Actually, it happen often that I can't receive services in french in the stores because those people assume that everybody will talk to them in english.

I think that you have folkloric conception of what is bill 101.

Maybe smaller businesses are exempted?

If small businesses are exempted, then I'm wrong. In Richmond for example, some shops advertise in Chinese only.
Would Bill 101 allow that? And if so, under what conditions?

But again, to free the government from the obligation to serve in English is libéralisation of the government. To oblige a business to post in French is imposition.

 

[Queb]

But it is geographically concentrated. French in many parts if the ROC is very disperced.



True. But the deal itself was ill conceived.



Ah, there is another part to this.

If the province gives the same amount if money per student, then French schools in Toronto or Vancouver will be inferior due to additional costs. To make them equal, per student funding must be much higher for French schools. As per the Constitution, you are correct.

I just disagree with the Constitution itself.

Give them an equal voucher is fair enough.



Maybe smaller businesses are exempted?

If small businesses are exempted, then I'm wrong. In Richmond for example, some shops advertise in Chinese only.
Would Bill 101 allow that? And if so, under what conditions?

But again, to free the government from the obligation to serve in English is libéralisation of the government. To oblige a business to post in French is imposition.

Schools, universities and hospitals cost more in English than French in Quebec and that does not prevent Quebec to fund more.

That said, we agree, the constitution has never been respected with the result that the French has almost disappeared in the ROC.

Now we all know that French services are symbolic in the ROC. Is it that people would agree to simply abolish the constitutional language obligations and that the culture of the Quebec Nation take all the place in Quebec as English culture did in the whole of the ROC ....? because that's the question.

 

[Machjo]

Schools, universities and hospitals cost more in English than French in Quebec and that does not prevent Quebec to fund more.

That said, we agree, the constitution has never been respected with the result that the French has almost disappeared in the ROC.

Now we all know that French services are symbolic in the ROC. Is it that people would agree to simply abolish the constitutional language obligations and that the culture of the Quebec Nation take all the place in Quebec as English culture did in the whole of the ROC ....? because that's the question.

Why would Québec be si foolish as to give more money per student to English schools? What you're saying is that Québec is no smarter than the ROC. We all submit to a foolish Constitution.

Give them an equal valued school voucher student and that's good enough. This would kill most English schools in Quebec except where English is dominant. And you know what? That is fair. Unconstitutional, yes, but fair.

If you want to give a higher valued voucher for deafness or other disability that's different.

Another thing to consider.

A business will usually try to use as few languages as possible to save money, sentimental reasons aside.

Why would a government be any different?

 

[Queb]

Why would Québec be si foolish as to give more money per student to English schools? What you're saying is that Québec is no smarter than the ROC. We all submit to a foolish Constitution.

Give them an equal valued school voucher student and that's good enough. This would kill most English schools in Quebec except where English is dominant. And you know what? That is fair. Unconstitutional, yes, but fair.

If you want to give a higher valued voucher for deafness or other disability that's different.

Another thing to consider.

A business will usually try to use as few languages as possible to save money, sentimental reasons aside.

Why would a government be any different?

"If small businesses are exempted, then I'm wrong. In Richmond for example, some shops advertise in Chinese only.
Would Bill 101 allow that? And if so, under what conditions?"

No No No

We don't talk about having school in english where you have a concentration of english peoples.
We said, no more services in english. Finito nada no more. School, university, hospital... all of this, all over Quebec.
Same with the french in ROC.

And yes, Quebec spend more money for the english services than french services. It cost more. Proportionally of course.

"If small businesses are exempted, then I'm wrong. In Richmond for example, some shops advertise in Chinese only.
Would Bill 101 allow that? And if so, under what conditions?"

No No No

We don't talk about having school in english where you have a concentration of english peoples.
We said, no more services in english. Finito nada no more. School, university, hospital... all of this, all over Quebec.
Same with the french in ROC.

And yes, Quebec spend more money for the english services than french services. It cost more. Proportionally of course.

"En ce qui concerne le financement universitaire, les établissements anglophones reçoivent 29% de l'ensemble des revenus qui sont alloués aux universités. En comparaison, au Canada anglais, les établissements francophones sont financés en deçà du poids démographique des francophones."

Les universités anglophones financées démesurément | Collectif de professeurs d'université* | Votre opinion

 

[Machjo]

Just having one school system, I'm fine with that too.

Now in Toronto, teaching non-native English speakers costs more too, but they do learn it.

 

[Remington1]

I just got challenged on a French Québec forum and need your help.

I proposed that instead of a sovereignty referendum, Québec should have a referendum on official unilingualism in the Constitution and federal administration.

For example, it could propose that the English provisions of the Constitution and federal government administration, packaging and labelling, etc. would not apply to Québec.

I'd pointed out that one advantage would be money saved for the taxpayer. Another would be that Federal employment in Quebec could be more accessible to those who don't know English and so make it more accessible to indigenous and allophone Quebecers too.

Another would be that Québec would no longer be obligated to provide English language education. It would probably still do that but could limit it more to where numbers warrant it for example without any Constitutional obligation to do so.

Another would be that Quebecers could import products from other countries with or without English labelling and so expand consumer choice.

One forum member said he liked the idea but that English Canada would never agree to it.

I explained that English Canadians are just as tired of having French imposed on them as Quebecers are of having English imposed on them.

I'd given the example of an entrepreneur in BC who'd run into the problem of importing US products with no French labelling. He eventually had to quit importing it because it wasn't worth the expense of French translation in BC.

He was still unconvinced, believing that English Canadians would gladly impose French on themselves if that is what it took to impose English on Quebec.

He seems to believe English Canadians are that massochistic. I disagree.

So, who's right? Would you agree to drop English in Quebec and French in the ROC?

I'll post this thread in the other forum too.

What a joke, learn English and let it go.

Economies of scale make it more expensive.

I could agree with school vouchers, and that would be fair. Yet ironically, French language schools would be worse off. In Richmond, you'have more Chinese schools if you did that.

Québec could give d'ayant-droit school vouchers, sure, but the provincial tests should all be in French.

Same with tests in other provinces.

What a joke, learn French and let it go