Two Witnesses

selfsame

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Material world. Holy Spirit. Ancient Hebrew history - Babylonian captivity. Interesting how history repeats, DB.



I have no explanation for this extra-biblical legend, SS.

It is a legend that I heard from my mother when I was a child; nothing of this is in the Glorious Quran.
I think she might have heard it from Jews, she had friends out of the Jewish girls in the school; but I don't know about the source of this legend.

The legend says that when they picked the infant Moses, he epilated the beard of Pharaoh who wanted then to kill him, but they told him he was only a child; so let him choose between Tamr : a date and Jamr: a brand of coal; so God saved him and let him pick the brand and put it in his mouth and so he had his difficulty of speaking !!

But this is a legend: nothing like that in the Quran.
 

Ludlow

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Your religion is all about "force". You "force " your scripture on everyone, everywhere, consistently and constantly. All about forcing your shyt on everyone you come into contact with. Sick of it.
 

selfsame

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Your religion is all about "force". You "force " your scripture on everyone, everywhere, consistently and constantly. All about forcing your shyt on everyone you come into contact with. Sick of it.

Your force is on you, and you against you; so it is all from you. :-x
 

Ludlow

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Your force is on you, and you against you; so it is all from you. :-x
Here' something that applies to you and your kind Selfsweat. " The Kingdom of Heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force". Keep your beliefs to yourself.

Post your scripture in an Islam thread. This thread is Christian.
 

Motar

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(Revelation 11:3-14)In the interlude between the 6th and 7th trumpets in Revelation chapter 11, two prominent and potent witnesses are appointed. Why are there two witnesses?

Why are there two witnesses?

OT law:
"A matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses." (Deuteronomy 19:15 NIV)

Christ:
"But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses." (Matthew 18:16 NIV)

NT Church:
"Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses." (2 Corinthians 13:1 NIV)

One cohesive message.
 

Ludlow

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Apologize Motar as I am not Christian my temper gets the best of me especially when fanatics can't relent. When it comes to revelation my thoughts are that the book has nothing to do with anything but the time and culture it was written. Concerning the circumstances of those times only. I could be wrong though . Just my perspective.
 

darkbeaver

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Material world. Holy Spirit. Ancient Hebrew history - Babylonian captivity. Interesting how history repeats, DB.
I have no explanation for this extra-biblical legend, SS.

Yes it is the hell of the material existance and the curse of the dead all the trials and tribulations happen here on earth as I have read. The state of the human spirit bound to matter is a smaller version of the great wheel. A fractal? As above so below for all eternity.

How could an infant of 3 months old pick up a burning coal with his hand or hands then carry it to his mouth?
Try to test this practically, then tell me.


I don't know how.

Why are there two witnesses?

OT law:
"A matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses." (Deuteronomy 19:15 NIV)

Christ:
"But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses." (Matthew 18:16 NIV)

NT Church:
"Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses." (2 Corinthians 13:1 NIV)

One cohesive message.

The oil is an interesting story as well. I have read of annointings which required full emersion in the famous oil. I remember where I saw it I'll leave a link. Yeah witnesses, two of them, scratched my head didn't result in anything. Pillars I thought maybe.
 

Motar

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Yeah witnesses, two of them, scratched my head didn't result in anything. Pillars I thought maybe.

The two witnesses of Zechariah 4 are identified by scholars as the king Zerubbabel and the priest Joshua. Some theologians suggest that the two witnesses of Revelation 11 might be Moses and Elijah, representing the law and the prophets. Others suggest that the witnesses could be two latter day individuals representing messianic Jews and the Church. Knowing the identities of the witnesses seems much less important than recognizing their God-appointed import to and empowered impact on the revelation of Christ.
 

MHz

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Sloppy forgery more than likely.

10. An angel strangled Mohammed with a book (Koran = Revelation). An angel made John the Evangelist eat a book (Revelation). Moses burned his mouth with burning coal.http://www.chronologia.org/en/prorok/index.htm
John the Baptist. John the Apostle is most likely the witness that is the Gospel of Mark, his brother James has a book Later and it appears to be after the Apostles left Jerusalem just before the scattering in 70AD
Joh:1:6:
There was a man sent from God,
whose name was John.

The two witnesses of Zechariah 4 are identified by scholars as the king Zerubbabel and the priest Joshua. Some theologians suggest that the two witnesses of Revelation 11 might be Moses and Elijah, representing the law and the prophets. Others suggest that the witnesses could be two latter day individuals representing messianic Jews and the Church. Knowing the identities of the witnesses seems much less important than recognizing their God-appointed import to and empowered impact on the revelation of Christ.
Moses and Elias were already seen as being alive again with Jesus as He will appear on the day He returns. The same mountain top would be where the 144,000 witnesses from the 12 Tribes the return from and the fire and earthquake that results at that time. That change is said to be longer than the period we have been in, something like 360,000 years compared to what the last 40,000 have been. Rather than a complete disaster the fields move south with the rains and you now get two crops per year. Travel is in shorter distances so co-operation is the trend rather than the exception. The two witnesses would see it unfold from directly above and the fire that lasts one hour is enough to dry up some rivers for the 10 kings from mankind based on Christ destroying the 10 kings that the Beast was the king over. The 7 vials would have to be poured out in just a few hours our the resurrection of the population that will be alive for the 1,000 years to be in the same shape Jesus was in the morning of His resurrection, alive but not yet glorified. (made equal to the sons of God in Ge:6) 6PM would be the start of another 'normal day' but glorified beings do not need sleep or bathroom breaks, etc. The remnant of the Gentiles in Zec:14 would be the Church as being a segment of all Gentiles that were alive. They each have a slightly different fate in the new earth but both groups make it there without any losses. That is how the God of the Living has the 'beginning' of the perfected earth compared to one that is less than perfect.

How many hidden messages (propaganda, racial profiling) can you count in this production? I could suggest some improvements that would attract more people rather than just the ones with Jerusalem Syndrome. Since a person who is killed comes back as a pissed fallen angel that requires two bullets to kill it?
http://ultra-vid.com/watch-jeruzalem-2016-online-free2
 

darkbeaver

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"And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth. They are 'the two olive trees' and the two lampstands, and 'they stand before the Lord of the earth.' If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. They have power to shut up the heavens so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want. Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified. For three and a half days some from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial. The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth. But after the three and a half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them. Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, 'Come up here.' And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.
At that very hour there was a severe earthquake and a tenth of the city collapsed. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the survivors were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven. The second woe has passed; the third woe is coming soon.” (Revelation 11:3-14 NIV)

In the interlude between the 6th and 7th trumpets in Revelation chapter 11, two prominent and potent witnesses are appointed.

Why does the action in this account mix past, present and future tenses? Why are there two witnesses and who are they?


"So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen genera-
547​
tions; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations."
Even if this statement matched no facts of veridical history, it marks a specific cycle of fourteen generations, and once more the Bible is found to hold to "pagan" usages. The Magi, the Zoroastrians, Chaldeans, Jews, Gnostics, Essenes and others kept the reckonings of the great religious cycles that were astronomical from the first. There were the Phoenix Cycle of 500 years and the great Cycle of Neros of 600; also the Egyptian Sothiac Cycle of 1461 years. The 1260 "days" of Revelation became the basis of another measurement.
Horus, Iusa, Iu-em-hetep and the Jesus of the "Infancy" Gospels all wrought miracles of resurrection in their childhood. At three years of age Iusa performed the wonder of making a dead fish (Pisces, the house of the birth of Christs) come to life (Latin Gospel of Thomas, Bk. 3, Ch. I). At five years of age he takes clay and molds twelve sparrows, which he commanded to fly, and not in vain. Here is a beautiful little allegory of bringing the dead divinity to life in twelve aspects of evolving intelligence. Papias emphatically declares that the Gospels originated in the Logia, or Sayings of Mu, or Ma. Mythoi were also Ma-ti (-ti being an Egyptian plural ending). Mati, the goddess of the Hall of the Two Truths or the equipoise of truth, would be the deity who uttered the true sayings or Logia. Research discloses that all the salient features of the life and character of Jesus were anticipated in the person of Horus, including the virgin motherhood, the divine sonship, the miracles, the self-immolation, the compassion, the discourses, the resurrection and a host of minor particulars. Egypt was the cradle of the Jesus figure, and in that cradle lay Iusa and Iu-em-hetep, Khunsu and Horus, Amsu, Khepr and Aten, all resurrected sons of dead fathers. In a sense both humorously and ironically unsuspected, the proclamation of the God of Christendom has been true: "Out of Egypt have I called my son." God sent his sons into this "Egypt" of the flesh-pots to gain what such an experience alone could yield; but in the turn of the cycle he called them home to him.
 

selfsame

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The Children of Israel went to Egypt in the time of Prophet Joseph son of Jacob; they were monotheists devoted to God alone: the Most Gracious the Most High: the Creator.

Then by time, they started to love the idolatry of Ancient Egypt, particularly the calf or the Bull.

The calf which they loved and worshiped, then in Sinai when Moses left them for forty days: they fell in the idolatry of worshiping the calf statue made of gold by the Samaritan (not by Prophet Aaron.)

Then after the death of Solomon, they again fell in the idolatry of worshiping the calf: two calf statues made for them by Jeroboam son of Nebet.

Quran 2: 93, which means:
{And [the love of] the calf was effusive into [the pericardium of] their hearts; because of their infidelity c.

Say [Mohammed, to them:] 'An evil belief is that which enjoins on you [such conduct d] if [indeed] you are true believers [in the Torah, as you claim e.]'}
............................................................

c Because they had been used to worship the idols in Egypt, before Moses came to them.

d i.e. if your faith or belief enjoins on you such conduct, then it will be an evil faith or belief.

e When you said: “We only believe [exclusively] in [the Torah] that was revealed to us."

The interpretation is by Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly.
 

taxslave

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"And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth. They are 'the two olive trees' and the two lampstands, and 'they stand before the Lord of the earth.' If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. They have power to shut up the heavens so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want. Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified. For three and a half days some from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial. The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth. But after the three and a half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them. Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, 'Come up here.' And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.
At that very hour there was a severe earthquake and a tenth of the city collapsed. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the survivors were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven. The second woe has passed; the third woe is coming soon.” (Revelation 11:3-14 NIV)

In the interlude between the 6th and 7th trumpets in Revelation chapter 11, two prominent and potent witnesses are appointed.

Why does the action in this account mix past, present and future tenses? Why are there two witnesses and who are they?

My bet is two loosers that consumed too many of the wrong kind of mushrooms.
 

darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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"And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth. They are 'the two olive trees' and the two lampstands, and 'they stand before the Lord of the earth.' If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. They have power to shut up the heavens so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want. Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified. For three and a half days some from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial. The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth. But after the three and a half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them. Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, 'Come up here.' And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.
At that very hour there was a severe earthquake and a tenth of the city collapsed. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the survivors were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven. The second woe has passed; the third woe is coming soon.” (Revelation 11:3-14 NIV)

In the interlude between the 6th and 7th trumpets in Revelation chapter 11, two prominent and potent witnesses are appointed.

Why does the action in this account mix past, present and future tenses? Why are there two witnesses and who are they?




"So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen genera-
547​
tions; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations."
Even if this statement matched no facts of veridical history, it marks a specific cycle of fourteen generations, and once more the Bible is found to hold to "pagan" usages. The Magi, the Zoroastrians, Chaldeans, Jews, Gnostics, Essenes and others kept the reckonings of the great religious cycles that were astronomical from the first. There were the Phoenix Cycle of 500 years and the great Cycle of Neros of 600; also the Egyptian Sothiac Cycle of 1461 years. The 1260 "days" of Revelation became the basis of another measurement.
"Out of Egypt have I called my son." God sent his sons into this "Egypt" of the flesh-pots to gain what such an experience alone could yield; but in the turn of the cycle he called them home to him.
 

MHz

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"So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen genera-
547​
tions; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations."
Even if this statement matched no facts of veridical history, it marks a specific cycle of fourteen generations, and once more the Bible is found to hold to "pagan" usages. The Magi, the Zoroastrians, Chaldeans, Jews, Gnostics, Essenes and others kept the reckonings of the great religious cycles that were astronomical from the first. There were the Phoenix Cycle of 500 years and the great Cycle of Neros of 600; also the Egyptian Sothiac Cycle of 1461 years. The 1260 "days" of Revelation became the basis of another measurement.
"Out of Egypt have I called my son." God sent his sons into this "Egypt" of the flesh-pots to gain what such an experience alone could yield; but in the turn of the cycle he called them home to him.
There is no verse that allows us to know how long between the start of the 'time of the Gentiles' (Luke:21:24 puts it at 70AD) and when there is 42 months left Re:11,(equal to the 1260 days the witnesses have and the 42 months the Beast from the Pit has) The witnesses start their time 4 days before the 5th trump sounds and it ends 4 days before the 7th trump sounds as that is the day the Beast is sent to the fiery lake.