Freedom of speech and thought and equality is what the West is and Islam forbids it.

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selfsame

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Ludlow said:
No you are. I'm not from Babylon,,,you are. :).
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So what about Babylon? Didn't God set it on the Israelite to defeat and destroy them utterly, and this will also be in the future.
Hilla is Babylon; Babylon is in the periphery of Hilla. Hilla is the capital of Babylon governorate in Iraq.
The ruins of Babil are 14 km from the center of the Hilla city.

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selfsame

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The prophecy tells the Israelite:
If you do good to Muslims, you do that only for your advantage ... because then they may allow you to live with them in Palestine.
But if you do evil (as what they are doing now to Palestinians and to Muslim countries round about them) ... then you do evil only to yourselves in like manner ...
Because days will pass and things will change and your evil will turn against you... and all that is on account of your arrogance so your rabbis lied to you ... and told you that you are the Chosen People of God and the rest of people are your servants ... etc.
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AnnaG

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selfsame said:
You forced them to that, whether directly or indirectly.
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Baloney.

You and all people are sitting on the brim of a volcano that may erupt at any moment.

Quran 67: 16
{Do you [people] feel secure that [God] Who is in heaven a may not cleave the earth with you, [as did He cleave another earth with its people before you], so that it then [shall] violently heave b.}
..................................................

a i.e. in the space. [It is the planet of the Asteroids.]
b i.e. disturbs and quakes.

[This aya has been explained in the book: The Universe and the Quran, under the title: The mistake of Astronomers about the Asteroids 1.]
http://www.quran-ayat.com/universe/index.htm#[_The_Mistake_of_Astronomers_about_the_Asteroids_1]
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As I keep saying, Muhammad had the understanding of science that algae would have.He was a merchant, not a scientist. That means the Quran is just as scientifically and totally bereft of comprehension as Muhammad was. High-school children know more science than Muhammad ever did.



I have just replied a similar reply to darkbeaver #113:
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/spirituality-philosophy/139723-god-does-not-wrong-people-4.html
"When a generalized punishment settles, e.g. an earthquake, hurricane, epidemic ..etc, then this generalized punishment will involve all people in that location .. men, women, old, young or children in addition to their cattle and crops.
Such punishment will include the believer + the disbeliever. ..etc."
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More baloney. Even if they exist, no goddesses or gods care about anything going on here on Earth. And an all-powerful goddess or god would not need earthquakes and volcanoes anyways. One that had the power could just punish the "sinful" and leave the innocent people alone.
 
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Cliffy

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selfsame said:
The prophecy tells the Israelite:
If you do good to Muslims, you do that only for your advantage ... because then they may allow you to live with them in Palestine.
But if you do evil (as what they are doing now to Palestinians and to Muslim countries round about them) ... then you do evil only to yourselves in like manner ...
Because days will pass and things will change and your evil will turn against you... and all that is on account of your arrogance so your rabbis lied to you ... and told you that you are the Chosen People of God and the rest of people are your servants ... etc.
صفحة جديدة 1
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Yup, I agree with you, but you left out the parts where your imams and teachers lied to you too. Yours is not the religion of god any more than any other religion. In fact, if you re-read the bible you will see that Jesus was totally against religion. He said the kingdom is within you. There is no outside source for a connection to the divine. You are it and religion takes that away from you and makes you a slave to the dogma of your religion. There are no answers "out there". They are all within you. Be still and listen. Allah speaks to you through your heart not through books.
 
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selfsame

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lone wolf said:
I put forth a question too: What is Taqiyya?
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This word is mentioned in the following aya: Quran 3: 28


[In this aya and some other ayat, God forbade the allying with disbelievers and idolaters (or associaters), and forbade loving them and exposing the secrets to them:]

{ 28. The believers should not take disbelievers for [their] allies a instead of believers b, and whoever does that will have nothing of God['s alliance] c; unless you are obliged to do this in order to avoid persecution d.
God bids you beware of Himself e; and f to God will be the final resort. g }
....................................................

a i.e. Believers should not take disbelievers as their allies to love and help them and expose the secrets of Muslims to them.

b i.e. they ally with them instead of allying with believers, but they should ally with the believers not with the disbelievers.

c i.e. anyone of you who allies with them, then God – be glorified – will not take care about him, but will quit him.

d i.e. if the power and authority is by their hands, and you are afraid lest you should be killed or persecuted; therefore, you pretend that you like them with your tongues not with your hearts; but it is not allowed to help them or expose the secrets of Muslims to them.

e Therefore, don't contradict His commands.

f following your death.

g So He will punish you for your allying with the disbelievers.
 
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Cliffy

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selfsame said:
This word is mentioned in the following aya: Quran 3: 28


[In this aya and some other ayat, God forbade the allying with disbelievers and idolaters (or associaters), and forbade loving them and exposing the secrets to them:]

{ 28. The believers should not take disbelievers for [their] allies a instead of believers b, and whoever does that will have nothing of God['s alliance] c; unless you are obliged to do this in order to avoid persecution d.
God bids you beware of Himself e; and f to God will be the final resort. g }
....................................................

a i.e. Believers should not take disbelievers as their allies to love and help them and expose the secrets of Muslims to them.

b i.e. they ally with them instead of allying with believers, but they should ally with the believers not with the disbelievers.

c i.e. anyone of you who allies with them, then God – be glorified – will not take care about him, but will quit him.

d i.e. if the power and authority is by their hands, and you are afraid lest you should be killed or persecuted; therefore, you pretend that you like them with your tongues not with your hearts; but it is not allowed to help them or expose the secrets of Muslims to them.

e Therefore, don't contradict His commands.

f following your death.

g So He will punish you for your allying with the disbelievers.
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Holy Crap! Do you have any idea what Peace is about? You just proved that Islam is not a religion of peace, but an isolationist religion bent on world domination, lying to, killing and torturing all those who resist. You are, as Ludlow said, a robot, blindly parroting what an ancient book of evil says. You sir, are without honour or integrity and are not worth the sweat off of my balls.
 
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selfsame

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Cliffy said:
Holy Crap! Do you have any idea what Peace is about? You just proved that Islam is not a religion of peace, but an isolationist religion bent on world domination, lying to, killing and torturing all those who resist. You are, as Ludlow said, a robot, blindly parroting what an ancient book of evil says. You sir, are without honour or integrity and are not worth the sweat off of my balls.
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So you suggest that believers should take disbelievers, like Ludlow and many other adversaries, as loyal friends; I shall think about this marvelous idea :roll:
 
lone wolf

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I think the suggestion is more like: You're more apt to develop a trusting friendship if it's not built upon a lie.

Foreign policy vs religious indoctrination. Which one is easier to remedy?
 
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selfsame

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AnnaG said:
Taqiyya is deception.
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It is not like that.
The disbelief and apostasy from the religion of the Islam will lead man to go to Hell. But if he is captured by the enemy who will kill him if he admits being a believer, then he may say the word of disbelief, only by tongue not by heart.
While if he disbelieves by heart, then he deserves Hell.
 
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selfsame

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lone wolf said:
I think the suggestion is more like: You're more apt to develop a trusting friendship if it's not built upon a lie.

Foreign policy vs religious indoctrination. Which one is easier to remedy?
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What are you saying? This is not deception, it is only to save his life and to escape the persecution of disbelievers. That's it.
It is logical; so will man in such circumstances submit himself to the enemy to kill or persecute him?
 
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AnnaG

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selfsame said:
It is not like that.
The disbelief and apostasy from the religion of the Islam will lead man to go to Hell. But if he is captured by the enemy who will kill him if he admits being a believer, then he may say the word of disbelief, only by tongue not by heart.
While if he disbelieves by heart, then he deserves Hell.
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Deception is deception regardless of the excuse for it. It is the coward's way. I believe in what I believe in and will not say different. So it seems that I, a female, have more "balls" than male Muslims.

selfsame said:
What are you saying? This is not deception, it is only to save his life and to escape the persecution of disbelievers. That's it.
It is logical; so will man in such circumstances submit himself to the enemy to kill or persecute him?
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It is logical if you have no courage, yes. If you have confidence that you will survive without your corporeal body then what is the big deal? You might as well stick to your beliefs and oprinciples and let your corporeal body go so you can enjoy your "heaven"..
 
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Ludlow

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selfsame said:
It is not like that.
The disbelief and apostasy from the religion of the Islam will lead man to go to Hell. But if he is captured by the enemy who will kill him if he admits being a believer, then he may say the word of disbelief, only by tongue not by heart.
While if he disbelieves by heart, then he deserves Hell.
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So it's okay according to your belief to be a liar. Now let me see. Who is called the father of liars?? Who are you justifying now Selfshister.
 
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