The Brits should have already been using those rules.
At this point the Brits should ban their airshows as they clearly aren't capable and responsible enough to ensure public safety.
British Military Jet Kills 7 at Airshow
- Thread starter EagleSmack
- Start date
The Brits should have already been using those rules.
At this point the Brits should ban their airshows as they clearly aren't capable and responsible enough to ensure public safety.
If I was a being flown in a fighter jet I'd rather it was flown by a Brit - especially a BA pilot - than some American.
What on Earth for?
In 2014, there were two similar accidents in Britain, with no fatalities. In America, there were three such incidents, with two fatalities.
In 2013, there was one such incident in Britain and three in America.
In 2012, there were five such crashes in America, one in Britain and one in Canada.
In 2011, there were eight of them in America, three in Britain and one in Canada.
So I don't think it's fair for the British to be lectured in such matters by a Yank and to have to follow North American air show "safety procedures".
What on Earth for?
In 2014, there were two similar accidents in Britain, with no fatalities. In America, there were three such incidents, with two fatalities.
In 2013, there was one such incident in Britain and three in America.
In 2012, there were five such crashes in America, one in Britain and one in Canada.
In 2011, there were eight of them in America, three in Britain and one in Canada.
So I don't think it's fair for the British to be lectured in such matters by a Yank and to have to follow North American air show "safety procedures".
Right they crashed within the safety of the show box. That is what it is for. To protect civilians.
BL's thinking clearly shows why airshows in Angland must be banned. Flying aircraft into traffic jams should not be sport.
Too right! Oy!
International Council of Air Shows
The International Council of Air Shows (ICAS)1 was founded in 1968 as a trade and professional association to protect and promote the interests of professionals in the growing North American air show market place. According to the ICAS website:
ICAS is the air show authority - the organizational representative for air shows, air show performers, air show producers and air show support services providers throughout the United States and Canada. From our annual Convention and professional publications to our safety and industry promotional programs, ICAS is the recognized leader in the air show business, a central clearinghouse for air show information, and a comprehensive network of air show professionals.
ICAS established an Aerobatic Competency Evaluation (ACE) program to qualify civilian air show pilots to fly aerobatics at public air shows in the United States and Canada. The ICAS ACE Manual2 contains the standards and procedures to be used by ACE evaluators in conducting an evaluation and making recommendations regarding aerobatic competency/safety to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and/or Transport Canada (TC). ACE evaluators are qualified individuals from within the air show industry. They evaluate the competency/safety of air show pilots and make recommendations to the FAA or TC for the issuance of the appropriate Statement of Aerobatic Competency (SAC).
A performer's SAC is renewed annually by an ACE evaluator who will review one of the performer's display sequences. SACs are issued in four levels and specify the minimum altitude at which a performer may fly. A Level 1 SAC permits a performer to fly to ground level. It also permits a performer to modify the display sequence without subsequent re-evaluation after the annual renewal. The ACE program does not specifically require that each display flown by a performer be evaluated. The statement of aerobatic qualification records of the Masters of Disaster performers indicated that their display had not been reviewed when they achieved their qualifications.
International Council of Air Shows
The International Council of Air Shows (ICAS)1 was founded in 1968 as a trade and professional association to protect and promote the interests of professionals in the growing North American air show market place. According to the ICAS website:
ICAS is the air show authority - the organizational representative for air shows, air show performers, air show producers and air show support services providers throughout the United States and Canada. From our annual Convention and professional publications to our safety and industry promotional programs, ICAS is the recognized leader in the air show business, a central clearinghouse for air show information, and a comprehensive network of air show professionals.
ICAS established an Aerobatic Competency Evaluation (ACE) program to qualify civilian air show pilots to fly aerobatics at public air shows in the United States and Canada. The ICAS ACE Manual2 contains the standards and procedures to be used by ACE evaluators in conducting an evaluation and making recommendations regarding aerobatic competency/safety to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and/or Transport Canada (TC). ACE evaluators are qualified individuals from within the air show industry. They evaluate the competency/safety of air show pilots and make recommendations to the FAA or TC for the issuance of the appropriate Statement of Aerobatic Competency (SAC).
A performer's SAC is renewed annually by an ACE evaluator who will review one of the performer's display sequences. SACs are issued in four levels and specify the minimum altitude at which a performer may fly. A Level 1 SAC permits a performer to fly to ground level. It also permits a performer to modify the display sequence without subsequent re-evaluation after the annual renewal. The ACE program does not specifically require that each display flown by a performer be evaluated. The statement of aerobatic qualification records of the Masters of Disaster performers indicated that their display had not been reviewed when they achieved their qualifications.
And according to the Brit media... the pilot that used the road as a landing strip was one of the "best of the best" pilots in England.
If he was the best of the best it is probably a good idea for the Brits to ban airshows.
Many in Britland agree....
I said it after the previous disaster, if u want to watch a airshow then go and see it in the movies. Otherwise it could me or you who would lose life next. And this kind of accidents happened so many times in the past. Go on look at the history and see it for yourself. We can't take it anymore. ~ Roberto; Liverpool
Totally agree with some of the comments here. These types of shows need to be away from any populated areas to stop this happening again. A needless waste of 7 or possibly more lives. RIP to all those whose lives were tragically cut short. ~ Sam; London
Considering the incredible danger these air shows can cause, the potential loss of life as this one has demonstrated, the enormous cost to sort out the aftermath, using out already over stretched emergency services...is the benefit of them for a relatively small crowd of spectators really worth it?? This is absolutely awful, 7 people have died, tragic...their poor family's. These shows should be banned. ~ Stan-The-Man; Kingston, UK
At least some people do have common sense in the UK.
If he was the best of the best it is probably a good idea for the Brits to ban airshows.
Many in Britland agree....
I said it after the previous disaster, if u want to watch a airshow then go and see it in the movies. Otherwise it could me or you who would lose life next. And this kind of accidents happened so many times in the past. Go on look at the history and see it for yourself. We can't take it anymore. ~ Roberto; Liverpool
Totally agree with some of the comments here. These types of shows need to be away from any populated areas to stop this happening again. A needless waste of 7 or possibly more lives. RIP to all those whose lives were tragically cut short. ~ Sam; London
Considering the incredible danger these air shows can cause, the potential loss of life as this one has demonstrated, the enormous cost to sort out the aftermath, using out already over stretched emergency services...is the benefit of them for a relatively small crowd of spectators really worth it?? This is absolutely awful, 7 people have died, tragic...their poor family's. These shows should be banned. ~ Stan-The-Man; Kingston, UK
At least some people do have common sense in the UK.
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Re: Jet crashes at UK airshow, hitting vehicles on highway
All BMW drivers need to be eliminated.
They truly are the worst, yes worse than silver Hondas and there's even technical proof to back me up.......
Turns out there's substantial scientific evidence that BMW drivers are some of the most aggressive and selfish on the road
Study: BMW drivers are the worst - Bankrate.com
All BMW drivers need to be eliminated.
They truly are the worst, yes worse than silver Hondas and there's even technical proof to back me up.......
Turns out there's substantial scientific evidence that BMW drivers are some of the most aggressive and selfish on the road
Study: BMW drivers are the worst - Bankrate.com
You mean like the Ice Cream Parlor Crash in Sacramento in 1972 when an F-86 Sabre, departing the Golden West Sport Aviation Show, failed to get airborne on takeoff, ploughed through the chain-link fence at the airport perimeter, crossed a road, crushed a parked car and continued through the front of the Farrell's Ice Cream Parlor in a strip mall? The Sabre Jet finally came to a stop inside the parlour. 22 people were killed. It was never satisfactorily explained why the ice cream parlour and the shopping centre that contained it got a building permit just yards from the end of a busy runway that accommodated business jets on a regular basis.
As for all that Elf 'n Safety nonsense, I've got no time for it. More Brits are killed by putting on their trousers most years than by being killed at an airshow.
This year 7 people had their trousers burned to a crisp while wearing them by this preventable incident.
Oh the death toll is climbing. It is up to 11 now.
He has to go back 42 years to find a comparable accident. FORTY-TWO YEARS!
And it wasn't even during an airshow.
So the pilot survived? Vehicular manslaughter charges should be laid immediately and he should spend the next 20-30 years in prison. Obviously an incompetent pilot. Any good pilot will usually avoid civilians even if it costs him his own life. This a-s-s-wipe did a loop over a populated highway.
I don't think the pilot was in control of the aircraft as it crashed on the highway. The obvious thing to do was to point the aircraft into an empty clearing and eject. Trying to land on a highway full of cars was not the answer. I hope the pilot survives to tell his story because he is the only one who knows what happened, Right now the pilot is in a medically induced coma according to the latest news I've read so we won't know for a while
1952 was the last time before now that any spectators have been killed at a British airshow.
I think that puts things into perspective.
Here's a stat which surprised me. Air shows are second only to football in terms of popularity as spectator events in the UK.
What safety rules govern air shows?
By Justin Parkinson, BBC News Magazine
24 August 2015
At least 11 people are thought to have died after a Hawker Hunter jet crashed into a road during the Shoreham Airshow. There have been calls for changes to safety rules, but what are the regulations currently in place?
Across the UK, planes are not normally allowed to fly any closer than 500ft (152m) from the ground. This rises to 1,000ft (305m) for built-up areas.
Anyone wanting to take part in aerobatics can't do so any closer than 1,000ft from the highest point in the area - such as a building or another landmark - outside of controlled air space.
But air shows need to allow planes to get closer to spectators, so they can experience up close the thrill of displays. This means different rules apply on such occasions.
The Civil Aviation Authority's latest regulations, updated this year, set the minimum distance between the display area - the patch of ground over which the plane is flying - and the sectioned-off crowd area.
If it's flying at less than 100 knots (185kph), the distance between display area and crowd area can be as little as 50m. If the plane is doing aerobatics, the distance is 100m.
Planes that travel at more than 300 knots (556kph), such as the Hawker Hunter jet involved in Saturday's disaster at Shoreham, West Sussex, have to leave 200m, increasing to 230m when performing aerobatics. Between 100 knots and and 300 knots there's a sliding scale.
The distances indicated here do not deal with height, just with the proximity of the display area and crowd area. When it comes to height for planes at air shows there are no fixed minimums.
More experienced pilots are allowed to take the plane lower during manoeuvres than those newer to taking part in displays. Air show directors must write to pilots to inform them of minimum heights applicable for their events and follow this up by telling them again in person or by telephone. But the regulations do not set absolute measurements.
The Hawker Hunter at Shoreham collided with several cars on the A27, just to the north of the airfield, after hitting the ground when the pilot attempted to complete a loop.
Because airports control the airspace surrounding them, this section of the road would have formed part of the designated air show display area. This means planes could fly and perform aerobatics over it, but not above the official fenced-off spectator areas within the airport, where this is banned.
The CAA states that directors of air shows "should consider imposing minimum height restrictions over local sensitive and congested areas".
But, in its advice to pilots, it remarks that the Hunter "has little difficulty sustaining, or regaining speed and/or altitude during a low-level display". The CAA also defines the loop as among the simplest aerobatic manoeuvres.
The CAA says that, as a precaution, it has imposed a temporary ban on flights by Hawker Hunters and that vintage jet aircraft will not be able to perform "high-energy aerobatics" until further notice.
It will also conduct extra risk assessments on all forthcoming civil air displays to establish if additional measures should be introduced.
Already, pilots performing in air shows are urged to fix a "sequence card", laying out the basic details of the routine they have practised, to the instrument panel. They are responsible for their own mental and physical condition, including fatigue, stress and any medication taken, and are expected to carry out a final "mental rehearsal" before flying.
"We are pretty much seen in the UK as having one of the best safety records," says Charles Skiera, executive director of the European Airshow Council. "The UK regulations are held in high regard in Europe and formed the basis for many other European nations' own regulations.
"Air shows are second only to football in terms of popularity as spectator events and it's been 63 years since any spectators have been killed."
Eleven people are known to have been killed in the Shoreham air disaster, but police warn the death toll could rise to twenty
There are separate rules for military planes, such as the Red Arrows, that take part in UK air shows. The "normal" separation between the crowd area and display area for planes carrying out aerobatics should be 230m, the Ministry of Defence says. For planes going at more than 300 knots towards the crowd, this should increase to 450m. During aerobatic manoeuvres, they should stay at least 300ft (91m) above ground.
Nato countries have an agreement setting minimum standards when military planes from one country visit another to take place in a display. The UK still imposes its own standards on visitors, as these are deemed to be more rigorous.
"The simple fact is that England is full up," former RAF pilot George Bacon told the BBC's Victoria Derbyshire show. "We must seriously recognise that. Shoreham is by no means the only airfield that operates so close to a major arterial road. Clearly more work needs to be done. Maybe rules will be changed so that certain types of aircraft can only operate in certain locations."
It's been suggested that aerobatic displays should happen only over open water, where there is no danger of hitting spectators or buildings. Bacon is sceptical of this idea. "What happened here was that, for some reason, inexplicable at the moment, the aircraft and the pilot went outside the safety envelope," he says.
In the US, the Federal Aviation Administration says that, for planes with a cruising speed of 245 knots or more, the "optimum" distance between the airspace above spectator and display areas is 1,500ft (457m). The "absolute minimum" is 1,200ft (366m).
Over the past decade there have been several accidents at air shows in the UK. But since the Farnborough Airshow of 1952, in which a De Havilland 110 broke up after passing the sound barrier, showering the crowd with debris, no spectator has been killed by a plane.
That disaster, causing 31 deaths, resulted in a full review of safety regulations, and they've often been amended since.
6th September 1952 - The last time before Saturday that spectators were killed at a British airshow.
On Saturday 6th September 1952 at the Farnborough Airshow in Hampshire, pilot John Derry and flight test observer Anthony Richards flying a de Havilland DH. 110 were killed when the outer starboard wing, immediately followed by the outer port wing, broke off when the aircraft was pulled into a climb. Wreckage crashed into the spectators, killing 29 and injuring 60. The incident was captured on film.
Subscribe to the BBC News Magazine's email newsletter to get articles sent to your inbox.
What safety rules govern air shows? - BBC News
I think that puts things into perspective.
Here's a stat which surprised me. Air shows are second only to football in terms of popularity as spectator events in the UK.
What safety rules govern air shows?
By Justin Parkinson, BBC News Magazine
24 August 2015
At least 11 people are thought to have died after a Hawker Hunter jet crashed into a road during the Shoreham Airshow. There have been calls for changes to safety rules, but what are the regulations currently in place?
Across the UK, planes are not normally allowed to fly any closer than 500ft (152m) from the ground. This rises to 1,000ft (305m) for built-up areas.
Anyone wanting to take part in aerobatics can't do so any closer than 1,000ft from the highest point in the area - such as a building or another landmark - outside of controlled air space.
But air shows need to allow planes to get closer to spectators, so they can experience up close the thrill of displays. This means different rules apply on such occasions.
The Civil Aviation Authority's latest regulations, updated this year, set the minimum distance between the display area - the patch of ground over which the plane is flying - and the sectioned-off crowd area.
If it's flying at less than 100 knots (185kph), the distance between display area and crowd area can be as little as 50m. If the plane is doing aerobatics, the distance is 100m.
Planes that travel at more than 300 knots (556kph), such as the Hawker Hunter jet involved in Saturday's disaster at Shoreham, West Sussex, have to leave 200m, increasing to 230m when performing aerobatics. Between 100 knots and and 300 knots there's a sliding scale.
The distances indicated here do not deal with height, just with the proximity of the display area and crowd area. When it comes to height for planes at air shows there are no fixed minimums.
More experienced pilots are allowed to take the plane lower during manoeuvres than those newer to taking part in displays. Air show directors must write to pilots to inform them of minimum heights applicable for their events and follow this up by telling them again in person or by telephone. But the regulations do not set absolute measurements.
The Hawker Hunter at Shoreham collided with several cars on the A27, just to the north of the airfield, after hitting the ground when the pilot attempted to complete a loop.
Because airports control the airspace surrounding them, this section of the road would have formed part of the designated air show display area. This means planes could fly and perform aerobatics over it, but not above the official fenced-off spectator areas within the airport, where this is banned.
The CAA states that directors of air shows "should consider imposing minimum height restrictions over local sensitive and congested areas".
But, in its advice to pilots, it remarks that the Hunter "has little difficulty sustaining, or regaining speed and/or altitude during a low-level display". The CAA also defines the loop as among the simplest aerobatic manoeuvres.
The CAA says that, as a precaution, it has imposed a temporary ban on flights by Hawker Hunters and that vintage jet aircraft will not be able to perform "high-energy aerobatics" until further notice.
It will also conduct extra risk assessments on all forthcoming civil air displays to establish if additional measures should be introduced.
Already, pilots performing in air shows are urged to fix a "sequence card", laying out the basic details of the routine they have practised, to the instrument panel. They are responsible for their own mental and physical condition, including fatigue, stress and any medication taken, and are expected to carry out a final "mental rehearsal" before flying.
"We are pretty much seen in the UK as having one of the best safety records," says Charles Skiera, executive director of the European Airshow Council. "The UK regulations are held in high regard in Europe and formed the basis for many other European nations' own regulations.
"Air shows are second only to football in terms of popularity as spectator events and it's been 63 years since any spectators have been killed."
Eleven people are known to have been killed in the Shoreham air disaster, but police warn the death toll could rise to twenty
There are separate rules for military planes, such as the Red Arrows, that take part in UK air shows. The "normal" separation between the crowd area and display area for planes carrying out aerobatics should be 230m, the Ministry of Defence says. For planes going at more than 300 knots towards the crowd, this should increase to 450m. During aerobatic manoeuvres, they should stay at least 300ft (91m) above ground.
Nato countries have an agreement setting minimum standards when military planes from one country visit another to take place in a display. The UK still imposes its own standards on visitors, as these are deemed to be more rigorous.
"The simple fact is that England is full up," former RAF pilot George Bacon told the BBC's Victoria Derbyshire show. "We must seriously recognise that. Shoreham is by no means the only airfield that operates so close to a major arterial road. Clearly more work needs to be done. Maybe rules will be changed so that certain types of aircraft can only operate in certain locations."
It's been suggested that aerobatic displays should happen only over open water, where there is no danger of hitting spectators or buildings. Bacon is sceptical of this idea. "What happened here was that, for some reason, inexplicable at the moment, the aircraft and the pilot went outside the safety envelope," he says.
In the US, the Federal Aviation Administration says that, for planes with a cruising speed of 245 knots or more, the "optimum" distance between the airspace above spectator and display areas is 1,500ft (457m). The "absolute minimum" is 1,200ft (366m).
Over the past decade there have been several accidents at air shows in the UK. But since the Farnborough Airshow of 1952, in which a De Havilland 110 broke up after passing the sound barrier, showering the crowd with debris, no spectator has been killed by a plane.
That disaster, causing 31 deaths, resulted in a full review of safety regulations, and they've often been amended since.
6th September 1952 - The last time before Saturday that spectators were killed at a British airshow.
On Saturday 6th September 1952 at the Farnborough Airshow in Hampshire, pilot John Derry and flight test observer Anthony Richards flying a de Havilland DH. 110 were killed when the outer starboard wing, immediately followed by the outer port wing, broke off when the aircraft was pulled into a climb. Wreckage crashed into the spectators, killing 29 and injuring 60. The incident was captured on film.
Subscribe to the BBC News Magazine's email newsletter to get articles sent to your inbox.
What safety rules govern air shows? - BBC News
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For sure, The Abbottsford airshow is one of the largest airshows in North America and they have had one fatality in close to fifty years of shows.
Yes it does. It is time to ban airshows in Britanne. The brits are no longer competent pilots.
These are two completely different airplanes. The Hawker Hunter is an older, conventional jet fighter that is obsolete by most standards. The Harrier is a state of the art VTLO strike fighter.?The Hawker Hunter was morphed into the Harrier in in 1960s and there is still a family resemblance. They were deployed all over and they filled the same operational niches as the Sabre did in our air force.
I watched a deHaviland Venom jet (just a few years older than the Hunter that went down, today) doing aerobatics at a Warplanes Heritage airshow in Hamilton in the 1980's. It was made out of plywood as was her very similar sister, the de Haviland Vampire, which was Canada's first fighter jet.
Bravo Juan... Bravo!
Personally I could not be bothered responding to his ridiculous claim so I just responded "lmao".
