I remember reading or hearing a few years ago that immigration marriage fraud is actually a big problem in Canada. How should we discourage it?
How to protect Canadians against immigration fraud?
- Thread starter Machjo
- Start date
First of all I know several people who married under conditions where people
came from other countries. My Nephews daughter met someone at college
and married they are doing fine. I have a relative who met someone from
Vietnam they get along fine.
I believe these are all individual cases. If someone does this in a fraudulent
manner the case should be investigated at the time of divorce. Because there
fraud is done in a minority of cases we shouldn't automatically punish everyone.
came from other countries. My Nephews daughter met someone at college
and married they are doing fine. I have a relative who met someone from
Vietnam they get along fine.
I believe these are all individual cases. If someone does this in a fraudulent
manner the case should be investigated at the time of divorce. Because there
fraud is done in a minority of cases we shouldn't automatically punish everyone.
flogging and several whacks of the peepee would also be a good deterant
and put the perpetrators in the stocks naked and let a horny gorilla loose in the area.
I would bet on it. It wouldn't be a fair bet because immigration is my line of work.
The percentage of spousal applications denied for marriage fraud is about 15%. It shifts every year. This statistic seems significant but it actually tells us very little. If fraud is determined, an application is denied. If it is not determined, but is still fraud, we don't know it's fraud. 15% might seem high but all those people are rejected. So that 15% is in fact not a problem. It's the system working.
And given the Charter right to presumption of innocence, that 15% is probably only solidly proven cases that you know can't be overturned in an appeal for lack of evidence.
I'm sure there are others you suspect but can't touch due to the presumption of innocence.
The Charter doesn't apply because (1) the applicant is usually not in the country and (2) it's not a matter of criminal law. There are rules and checks in hopes of creating a fair system, but in all immigration applications you generally have to prove your claims if asked. You are not presumed innocent.
Once someone is in the country, certain charter rights apply to them, and even more so for Permanent Residents. This is a problem for CIC because one charter right is the right to mobility. Federal and provincial programs to promote certain kinds of economic immigration often backfire. Quebec is continuously abused by immigrants entering through provincial programs and then taking off to other provinces. Part of the problem of giving Quebec so much independence.
Once someone is in the country, certain charter rights apply to them, and even more so for Permanent Residents. This is a problem for CIC because one charter right is the right to mobility. Federal and provincial programs to promote certain kinds of economic immigration often backfire. Quebec is continuously abused by immigrants entering through provincial programs and then taking off to other provinces. Part of the problem of giving Quebec so much independence.
Really?! So you can refuse to recognize the legitimacy of a marriage merely based on presumed guilt? Does this mean that a Canadian who marries and starts a family abroad risks finding that his wife and kid are not allowed in Canada for no other reason than the presumption of guilt?
I am in two minds about making it more difficult for a foreign national to enter Canada. On the flip side, I am in favour of the principle of the right to family unity.
I'd even go so far as to say that the family precedes the state in importance, the state acting as the servant and preserver of the family.
I shouldn't have used the legal vocabulary of presumption of guilt/innocence. It's not a question of innocence or guilt because it's not a criminal matter. In a sense you have the right to fairness in the process, but you don't have the right to have your application accepted merely because you submitted it and it is then the government that has to prove or disprove your case. You have to prove your case and submit the right documents. It's a question of meeting criteria. Of course, the government has to operate within its own rules, but it makes the rules.
The example you gave is very unlikely to be rejected. If you have children with your spouse that pretty much proves you have a real marriage.
Off the top of my head, family reunification makes up about 20-30% of all immigration. That percentage has been declining in recent years as Conservative government policies slowly take effect.
Canada has a pretty sound immigration system. Far more conservative than the US's.
A liberal Canadian would be considered far right here in the US.
A liberal Canadian would be considered far right here in the US.
A more liberal immigration system probably also significantly reduces marriage fraud.
I don't know the details of the US one but for the most part if you're economically self-sufficient or are a legitimate refugee, then welcome to Canada.
So what is yours like?
I should also add that if you want to reunite with your family, welcome to Canada.
In Canada we like to make a big deal about all the refugees we let into the country, but internationally, compared to other countries that is, we don't let in very many. Canada is very stingy when it comes to refugees. Generally refugees go to the countries bordering the ones they escape from. Canada only has one neighbour and we aren't getting refugees from there. It's easy for us to brag when we do allow refugees to come here. We don't have to live with the realities of the millions of refugees in the world.
You also have to prove you can support your family members financially.
Maybe in government circles 15% provable fraud isn't high, since most of government is a fraud of some kind but to the average taxpayer that has to finance all this it is a huge problem. Espeially since the 15% is only the ones you reject. How many escape under your radar?