The End of Unions?

[Tecumsehsbones]

Samuelson writes a thoughtful op-ed on how fast-food workers are winning wage increases through state and local governments, not through unionising:

How to get a raise at McDonald’s - The Washington Post

The day of the American union may be coming to a close, for two reasons. First, unions are suffering from their own success. Most of the work hours and safety issues that were the bedrock of the unions' activism are now resolved to the point where they are a matter of law, enforced by the government. Which leaves only the second reason, wages. Unions fight for better wages, which allows bosses and the right wing to portray them as "greedy" (while the bosses take multi-million or even billion dollar bonuses). Add recent court actions reminiscent of the pre-NLRA attacks on unions as conspiracies in restraint of trade, and you have the current bleak state of unions in the U.S.

So now workers are going directly through governments. I don't like this, personally. I have always thought that setting up two equal parties with opposing agendae and letting them negociate to a conclusion is far better than government-imposed solutions. But, law of unintended consequences. By hammering the unions and driving down wages, the bosses set it up so that higher wages are increasingly a matter of law. And there are lots more workers than bosses.

 

[taxslave]

The one place where unions are strongest is government where there is no competition for work. Unfortunately they are the most out of touch with reality because of the lack of outside forces in the workplace. In the building trades there are lots of non or company union places as well as economics that influence our wages and benifits. Here too the job protections built in to union jobs has many thinking they are owed a paycheque without either the production or quality of work that one would normally associate with being highest paid.
For the most part labour laws only make it better for the lower paid sectors.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

The one place where unions are strongest is government where there is no competition for work. Unfortunately they are the most out of touch with reality because of the lack of outside forces in the workplace.

Do you mean in Canada or in the U.S.?

 

[taxslave]

Do you mean in Canada or in the U.S.?

Canada. Other than what I read in the union propaganda sheets that show up in my mail box I don't have much info on US labour law.

 

[petros]

As soon as they mentioned "_________ wing" it was no longer a reality based article.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Canada. Other than what I read in the union propaganda sheets that show up in my mail box I don't have much info on US labour law.

Same here, in reverse.

In the U.S., most public-sector unions can't strike. In the Federal government, they also can't bargain over wages or hours, which leaves them basically with some minor "working conditions" bargaining and defending workers in disciplinary actions. The same is true for many state- and local-level unions. This leaves police and fire unions especially with the "blue flu," i.e., a sick-out, as their only real bargaining tool.

As soon as they mentioned "_________ wing" it was no longer a reality based article.

I was the one who said "right wing." It wasn't in the article.

Have a cup of Timmie's coffee and see if you can get with the programme.

 

[taxslave]

Same here, in reverse.

In the U.S., most public-sector unions can't strike. In the Federal government, they also can't bargain over wages or hours, which leaves them basically with some minor "working conditions" bargaining and defending workers in disciplinary actions. The same is true for many state- and local-level unions. This leaves police and fire unions especially with the "blue flu," i.e., a sick-out, as their only real bargaining tool.


I was the one who said "right wing." It wasn't in the article.

Have a cup of Timmie's coffee and see if you can get with the programme.

Unfortunately our government employees can and do strike. Right now BC teachers are on strike which is really apower struggle between militant government unions and the elected government over who controls the public purse.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Unfortunately our government employees can and do strike. Right now BC teachers are on strike which is really apower struggle between militant government unions and the elected government over who controls the public purse.

Teachers can strike here too, generally. One of the few public-sector unions that can.

I don't know the particulars, but I hope they can work to a compromise that satisfies everyone's needs.

 

[petros]

Pay eachers as littles as possible and divert the funds to the welfare the kids will need for the rest of their lives.

 

[captain morgan]

Pay eachers as littles as possible and divert the funds to the welfare the kids will need for the rest of their lives.

Charter and Private Schools are on the rise as a direct reaction against the quality coming from the Public system.

Pay the teachers on par with the alt systems, BUT, they will need to produce actual and comparable results if they wish to maintain that wage level

 

[petros]

Charter and Private Schools are on the rise as a direct reaction against the quality coming from the Public system.

Pay the teachers on par with the alt systems, BUT, they will need to produce actual and comparable results if they wish to maintain that wage level

Malarkey. Those are moonbat born yesterday schools.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Charter and Private Schools are on the rise as a direct reaction against the quality coming from the Public system.

Pay the teachers on par with the alt systems, BUT, they will need to produce actual and comparable results if they wish to maintain that wage level

Heh-heh. Yeah, tie pay to student improvement. We do that here. That means that teachers of gifted classes get the lowest pay, because their classes are so high-performing there's not much room for "improvement."

On other fronts, this allows principals to place "troublemakers" (i.e., teachers who criticise or question) in classes purpose-designed to make them fail.

Yep, that's the solution to all our problems for sure.

 

[captain morgan]

Malarkey. Those are moonbat born yesterday schools.

Maybe in Sask

Heh-heh. Yeah, tie pay to student improvement. We do that here. That means that teachers of gifted classes get the lowest pay, because their classes are so high-performing there's not much room for "improvement."

On other fronts, this allows principals to place "troublemakers" (i.e., teachers who criticise or question) in classes purpose-designed to make them fail.

Yep, that's the solution to all our problems for sure.

Who says that there is only one approved formula?

besides, the system as we see it today is broken beyond repair.. Does this mean that you throw up your hands and try to maintain the crappy status quo by in burying the problem in cash?

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Maybe in Sask



Who says that there is only one approved formula?

besides, the system as we see it today is broken beyond repair.. Does this mean that you throw up your hands and try to maintain the crappy status quo by in burying the problem in cash?

If it's broken beyond repair, the only sensible thing to do is scrap it.

 

[gopher]

fast food strike is now going on in 150 municipalities:

Union power - yes!

 

[petros]

Maybe in Sask

Spilling over from AB. The are quite a few French immersion and montessoris but they still pay jack sh-t.

 

[captain morgan]

If it's broken beyond repair, the only sensible thing to do is scrap it.

Suit yourself.... Ain't my problem

Spilling over from AB. The are quite a few French immersion and montessoris but they still pay jack sh-t.

How about the academic focused ones?... They moonbats too?

 

[petros]

Suit yourself.... Ain't my problem



How about the academic focused ones?... They moonbats too?

Not that many around. Do you know if they are union or non-union?

 

[captain morgan]

Couldn't tell ya, but regardless of that, they don't strike.

For that matter, AB has not had a significant labour disruption since Klein took the bull by the horns and laid down the law to the AB Teachers Assoc

 

[Zipperfish]

Pay eachers as littles as possible and divert the funds to the welfare the kids will need for the rest of their lives.

I'm stealing that line!

Samuelson writes a thoughtful op-ed on how fast-food workers are winning wage increases through state and local governments, not through unionising:

How to get a raise at McDonald’s - The Washington Post

The day of the American union may be coming to a close, for two reasons. First, unions are suffering from their own success. Most of the work hours and safety issues that were the bedrock of the unions' activism are now resolved to the point where they are a matter of law, enforced by the government. Which leaves only the second reason, wages. Unions fight for better wages, which allows bosses and the right wing to portray them as "greedy" (while the bosses take multi-million or even billion dollar bonuses). Add recent court actions reminiscent of the pre-NLRA attacks on unions as conspiracies in restraint of trade, and you have the current bleak state of unions in the U.S.

So now workers are going directly through governments. I don't like this, personally. I have always thought that setting up two equal parties with opposing agendae and letting them negociate to a conclusion is far better than government-imposed solutions. But, law of unintended consequences. By hammering the unions and driving down wages, the bosses set it up so that higher wages are increasingly a matter of law. And there are lots more workers than bosses.

In Canada there have been some recent developments that lead me to believe that the day of the union may not be over yet. Like the US, labour law have obviated the need for unions in many cases.

In particular, the temporary foreign worker program, where domestic staff were fired by the company after having trained their foreign replacements. A couple of banks were caught doing that. That rubbbed a lot of people the wrong way.