Ferguson riots: Clashes, looting in Missouri following vigil for teen shot dead by po

Tecumsehsbones

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First, your new avatar -- *barf*



So which do you think can come first 1 or 2? I suspect if Officer Friendly went out now, he wouldn't last too long.
There's a fair amount of research that suggests that tricking out the police in combat gear increases rather than decreases fear, hostility, and violence among the populace.

As to your suspicion that Officer Friendly would not survive among the populace, two points:

1. I reiterate, there were riots on Sunday. Since then, there have been protests every day, which even the police say have been peaceful.

2. Officer Friendly has a high-capacity 9mm automatic, a Taser, a baton, and mace. He also has a radio and a command post and a whole bunch of other trained, organised Officer Friendlies to aid him. How much of a military advantage do the cops need to control a crowd? Artillery? Airstrikes? (OK, that last was a little sarcastic. Not meant to disrespect you, just to express goggle-eyed disbelief that you need black fatigues, body armour, Kevlar helmets, balaclavas, and purpose-designed infantry weapons to do crowd control).

3 is a good plan for all police forces.

That being said, your observations and suggestions depend entirely on the accuracy of your premise (stated a couple posts up) that the rate of crime is equal between the white and black community and the only difference is the amount or severity of convictions. If this does not hold true, then the reason black people are arrested and searched more would be they would be more likely to commit a crime.
I didn't say "the rate of crime." I used one specific crime, drug possession, as an example. The evidence shows pretty conclusively that more serious and violent crime rates are higher in the black population than in the white population. However, the evidence also shows pretty conclusively that non-whites are arrested more, convicted more, and receive harsher sentences for comparable crimes with comparable defendants than whites.

And even though the rate of crime and violent crime is higher among non-whites than among whites, that does not give the police the authority or the reason to harass non-whites. To say that because 75% of all the crime is commited by non-whites (that's a hypothetical, not the actual figues) means that a given non-white is 50% more likely to be a criminal is not only repugnant to the concept and law of equal protection, it is an erroneous application of statistics.
 

captain morgan

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I can get behind all of these points 100% and will add:

The legal system needs to publicly announce that they will prosecute, with a heavy hand on any/all parties that violate the laws in these 'special circumstances'.. This to be directed at all parties with innuendo focused on the police.

caveat: the same heavy hand also extended to those that propagate crimes that potentially inflame the existing fragile relationship

in terms of this commentary:

Right, so we have two problems here. One is the reality, for which there is a good body of evidence that police forces treat non-whites more harshly than whites, in direct and systemic violation of the concept and law of equal protection.

The other is the perception that springs from the historical and current conduct of the police, which leads to an attitude of "there's no point in seeking justice," which leads to disrespect for the law, lashing out, violence, and unwillingness to cooperate (which leads to the police being less effective in stopping/solving crimes in non-white neighbourhoods, which reinforces the perception "the authorities don't care about us").

The statistics represent a reality, but that does not automatically assume that it is reality in this particular circumstance. Acting out (ie riot) based on perceptions and assumptions only works to strengthen this premise among the 'non-white' community that acts as fuel for the fire on subsequent occasions.

.. A classic self-fulfilling prophecy.

Also, at some point, the 'non-white' communities absolutely need to move away from living in the past and focus on the future. A perpetual focus on historical wrongs will serve only to exasperate the divide and ultimately you'll have more mobs bent on vigalante justice running around that will in turn prompt the police/authorities to respond in kind.

From there, the perceptions are reinforced and the cycle perpetuates itself ad infinitum
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Also, at some point, the 'non-white' communities absolutely need to move away from living in the past and focus on the future. A perpetual focus on historical wrongs will serve only to exasperate the divide and ultimately you'll have more mobs bent on vigalante justice running around that will in turn prompt the police/authorities to respond in kind.

From there, the perceptions are reinforced and the cycle perpetuates itself ad infinitum
In my own life and interactions, especially with Indian kids, I emphasise that as much as possible. I also consider that as falling under my point of the responsibilities of the leaders of the non-white communities.

I consider that no less important than any other measure. I also push the message of "Life ain't always fair. That's no excuse." as much as I can. At the same time, given the need to get over the past, it's incumbent upon everybody to extra-special scrupulously fair and just, especially to historically discriminated-against populations.

Culture change cannot be the responsibility of only one culture. I fully support that. The white culture has the money and power, the non-white culture has the credibility and influence over their members. Both oars in the water, or you're paddling in circles.

By the way, I note and appreciate that you joined me in moving away from the specific incident to talk about the riot, protests, and reactions. I think that's smart, because at this point, we really don't have enough information to say anything sensible about the incident. Let's revisit that when the investigations produce something worth saying.
 

EagleSmack

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There's a fair amount of research that suggests that tricking out the police in combat gear increases rather than decreases fear, hostility, and violence among the populace.

For me... I just think they look ridiculous. Like they are so excited to play dress up and play soldier. At Columbine every law enforcement org went back to the station to get all costumed up. Meanwhile rampaging 2 teenagers had complete control of the situation from beginning to end. It started when they choose and ended when they choose to end it.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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For me... I just think they look ridiculous. Like they are so excited to play dress up and play soldier. At Columbine every law enforcement org went back to the station to get all costumed up.
To a real Marine, that's true. To somebody whose only exposure to the military has been the TV news and fairly stupid movies, it can be pretty provocative.

Meanwhile rampaging 2 teenagers had complete control of the situation from beginning to end. It started when they choose and ended when they choose to end it.
Which situation? Michael Brown's death? I'd say that situation ended when the cop chose to end it.
 

B00Mer

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You know I just don't get it... there are a shortage of jobs, so they burn and loot the businesses that give them jobs..

So while they do repairs, more folks are unemployed.

It's an extremely sad situation.. I feel sorry for the mother who lost her child, and still really has no answers.

I hope this does not get worse, and more lives lost.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Here's another photo of a black mob viciously attacking a hard-working, defenceless policeman.


 

EagleSmack

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To a real Marine, that's true. To somebody whose only exposure to the military has been the TV news and fairly stupid movies, it can be pretty provocative.

I'm no less provoked inside. I am not intimidated although I am sure when they are all geared up it excites them and makes them think they are Rambo.


Which situation? Michael Brown's death? I'd say that situation ended when the cop chose to end it.

No... Columbine High School. The two rampaging teens Harris and Klebold had complete control of the situation while wannabee Rambos were getting dressed and running around outside.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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I'm no less provoked inside. I am not intimidated although I am sure when they are all geared up it excites them and makes them think they are Rambo.




No... Columbine High School. The two rampaging teens Harris and Klebold had complete control of the situation while wannabee Rambos were getting dressed and running around outside.
Oh, hell yeah. Later a couple of them actually bemoaned the fact that they didn't have any weapons with the range to get Harris and Klebold. You're kidding, right? How f*cking far away were they?
 

EagleSmack

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Oh, hell yeah. Later a couple of them actually bemoaned the fact that they didn't have any weapons with the range to get Harris and Klebold. You're kidding, right? How f*cking far away were they?

Yes indeed. One cop traded a couple of shots and that was it for him and the rest of the Police Forces. They formed a perimeter and waited. Meanwhile the two teens took full control of the school interior, did what they intended, and ended their lives on their own.

The police said they were outgunned. Well what about the students? Pencils and pens was all they had.

Get in there and fight. You may die, you may get hurt but at least you're doing what is expected. Not hiding behind a patrol car listening to shots and screaming kids.
 

coldstream

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If the eyewitness accounts are verified.. on the unarmed victim being shot in the back, and then multiple times while surrendering.. and that should be confirmed by the autopsy.. then this Officer's fate should be sealed. He's going to jail for Second Degree Murder.


EXCEPT the judicial system is heavily weighted towards the Police. There have been notorious cases.. as in the shooting of an aboriginal man whittling some wood and obeying a policeman's commands in Seattle a few years ago.. In which even the police chief admitted this was an unjustified shooting. The officer lost his job, but no criminal charges were laid.. in that case because Washington has a law that NO criminal charges can be brought against an officer while he deems himself to be doing his duty.. regardless of how outrageous the actions.

We'll see how things go.. but my guess is NO charges will be filed.. and this policeman's actions will be whitewashed.
 
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EagleSmack

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If the eyewitness accounts are verified.. on the unarmed victim being shot in the back, and then multiple times while.. and that should be confirmed by the autopsy.. then this Officers fate should be sealed. He's going to jail for Second Degree Murder.


EXCEPT the judicial system heavily weighted towards the Police. There have been notorious cases.. as in the shooting of an aboriginal man whittling some wood and obeying a policeman's commands in Seattle a few years ago.. In which even the police chief admitted this was an unjustified shooting. The officer lost his job, but no criminal charges were laid.. in that case because Washington has a law that NO criminal charges can be brought against an officer while he deems himself to be doing his duty.. regardless of how outrageous the actions.

We'll see how things go.. but my guess is NO charges will be filed.. and this policeman's actions will be whitewashed.

If your first paragraph is true I am doubtful he will get off. They do not all go free.
 

Count_Lothian

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The race riots of the 60's proved to be the main reason Rev.King's ideals were realized.
The non violent acts of countries like Tibet go the way of Dodo.

The powers to be will give holidays and raise statues to the non violent , but in the end non violent protest needs violent protest to be recognized.

Recently I met a women who was born in Atlanta and moved to Canada after she had her child at her breast,breastfeeding whilst watching similiar to this on telly.
KKK Hold Rally In Downtown Atlanta - YouTube
 

darkbeaver

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If it turns out to be true, if, that the little punk pushed the officer (white, black, who knows what he is) back into his car and made a grab for his service pistol...then dead he be alright...dead dead dead. big deal.

And if the cop was in a roidrage and packin the IDF alien control pocket book?

If the eyewitness accounts are verified.. on the unarmed victim being shot in the back, and then multiple times while surrendering.. and that should be confirmed by the autopsy.. then this Officer's fate should be sealed. He's going to jail for Second Degree Murder.


EXCEPT the judicial system is heavily weighted towards the Police. There have been notorious cases.. as in the shooting of an aboriginal man whittling some wood and obeying a policeman's commands in Seattle a few years ago.. In which even the police chief admitted this was an unjustified shooting. The officer lost his job, but no criminal charges were laid.. in that case because Washington has a law that NO criminal charges can be brought against an officer while he deems himself to be doing his duty.. regardless of how outrageous the actions.

We'll see how things go.. but my guess is NO charges will be filed.. and this policeman's actions will be whitewashed.

The witnesses would be interesting to follow in the news.