ANOTHER SETBACK FOR THE CAMPAIGN FOR AN INDEPENDENT SCOTLAND
Scotland's nationalist First Minister Alex Salmond, who is hoping the Scots vote for an independent Scotland in his September 18th referendum, took on former UK Chancellor of the Exchequer Alistair Darling, a fellow Scot and leader of the anti-independence Better Together campaign, in a debate last night which was shown live on Scotland's ITV channel STV and on the internet.
Charismatic Salmond was the favourite by the bookies to win, but it was actually first blood to dour Darling and the Better Together campaign.
Darling had Salmond - who at stages was actually BOOED by the Scottish audience - on the ropes, leaving the First Minister to babble on about the risk of alien attacks and pandas.
Mr Darling shed his reputation for being a dull, dour Scot (MPs used to fall asleep in the Commons when he delivered his Budget speeches) to go on the attack, branding plans to keep the pound 'stupidity on stilts' and accusing the Yes campaign of being based on 'guess work, blind faith and crossed fingers'.
But people trying to watch the historic head-to-head were dismayed after the STV website crashed under the intense demand from millions of people worldwide who wanted to watch it.
Mr Salmond repeatedly complained that independence was the only way to prevent a future Tory government while Mr Darling insisted Scotland was stronger as part of the UK.
As the political temperature rose, Mr Darling accused Mr Salmond of 'scrabbling around', claiming the First Minister has 'lots of good lines but no answers'.
Voters in Scotland will make their big decision on independence in the historic referendum on September 18.
Last night's debate took place in front of an audience of 350 at the Royal Conservatoire of Scotland in Glasgow. The audience was split between those wanting independence and those against it,
A snap exit poll by ICM for the Guardian of more than 500 viewers found that 56 per cent believed Mr Darling won, with just 44 per cent backing the SNP leader.
The No campaign has been consistently ahead in the opinion polls, despite months of intense debate, impassioned pleas and trading of facts and figures.
The latest IpsosMORI poll shows support for independence at 40%, with support for the Union at 54%.
But one of the biggest threats to the Yes campaign has been growing doubts about the currency an independent Scotland would use.
After ditching the idea of adopting the euro, the SNP has claimed it would enter a currency union with the UK and continue to use the pound.
However the Tories, Labour and Lib Dems have all made clear they would block a deal, whoever wins the next general election.
Amongst Scottish celebrities in favour of independence are The Proclaimers; comedian Kevin Bridges; actor Alan Cumming; and former James Bond actor Sir Sean Connery (who professes to love Scotland so much yet lives in tax exile abroad).
Scottish celebs that are against independence include singers Rod Stewart and Susan Boyle; Trainspotting and Star Wars actor Ewan McGregor; comedians Billy Connelly and Wee Jimmy Krankie; and Scotland and Great Britain cyclist Sir Chris Hoy.
Those keeping quiet include Eurythmics singer Annie Lennox; actor James McAvoy; and tennis star Andy Murray.
But with him being beaten in a TV debate by the leader of the anti-independence campaign, and with polls showing that the Scots will, as things stand, vote against independence, it seems that Salmond has an awful lot to do to persuade Scots to vote for independence on September 18th.
First blood to the No campaign: Salmond flounders in explosive TV debate as Darling tears into his plans for Scottish independence - but millions FAIL to see it after STV website crashes
First Minister and ex-Chancellor took part in live two-hour debate on STV
Salmond under pressure over currency an independent Scotland would use
On the ropes, First Minister talks about risk of alien attacks and pandas
STV website crashes as millions worldwide try to watch debate online
Snap exit poll after debate ended says 56% of viewers thought Darling won
Voters to decide Scotland's fate in historic referendum on September 18
New IpsosMORI poll puts No campaign on 54% but Yes campaign on 40%
Up to half a million people are still undecided with just weeks to go
No campaign has received £2.6million, ahead of £1.5million for Yes camp
Cameron, Clegg and Miliband sign joint declaration promising tax powers
By Matt Chorley, Mailonline Political Editor
6 August 2014
Daily Mail
Alex Salmond took a pounding last night as he came under pressure to explain how his dream of independence would work in practice.
The First Minister was defeated by former Chancellor Alistair Darling in the first TV debate of the referendum campaign, floundering when questioned about a future currency and labelled 'snide' by audience members.
Better Together leader Mr Darling shed his reputation for being dull to go on the attack, branding plans to keep the pound 'stupidity on stilts' and accusing the Yes campaign of being based on 'guess work, blind faith and crossed fingers'.
But people trying to watch the historic head-to-head were dismayed after the STV website crashed under the intense demand from viewers worldwide.
Former Chancellor Alistair Darling (right) had Scotland's First Minister Alex Salmond on the ropes over what currency an independent Scotland would use, dismissing the idea of keeping the pound as 'stupidity on stilts'. A snap poll after the debate found that 56% of people believed Darling won the debate, with 44% believing Salmond had won
The two men repeatedly clashed over whether Scotland would be better remaining in the UK or becoming an independent country
Mr Salmond repeatedly complained that independence was the only way to prevent a future Tory government while Mr Darling insisted Scotland was stronger as part of the UK.
As the political temperature rose, Mr Darling accused Mr Salmond of 'scrabbling around', claiming the First Minister has 'lots of good lines but no answers'.
Voters in Scotland will make their big decision on independence in the historic referendum on September 18.
Last night's debate took place in front of an audience of 350 at the Royal Conservatoire of Scotland in Glasgow.
A snap exit poll by ICM for the Guardian of more than 500 viewers found that 56 per cent believed Mr Darling won, with just 44 per cent backing the SNP leader.
The No campaign has been consistently ahead in the opinion polls, despite months of intense debate, impassioned pleas and trading of facts and figures.
But one of the biggest threats to the Yes campaign has been growing doubts about the currency an independent Scotland would use.
After ditching the idea of adopting the euro, the SNP has claimed it would enter a currency union with the UK and continue to use the pound.
However the Tories, Labour and Lib Dems have all made clear they would block a deal, whoever wins the next general election.
Some 350 people were chosen to be in the audience at the Royal Conservatoire in Glasgow, with balance between those for and against independence
The debate swung between detailed points and aggressive personal attacks between the two men
In a withering attack on the lack of a back-up plan, Mr Darling told his opponent: 'I want you to do something that is really difficult. I want you to contemplate for one minute you might be wrong. What is Plan B? Please tell us, we need to know.'
As the audience heckled him, Mr Salmond fought back, repeatedly insisting: 'We will keep the pound, it is our pound as well as England's pound.
'This is Scotland's pound. It doesn't belong to George Osborne, it doesn't belong to you. It has been built up by Scotland for a long time.'
But Mr Darling dismissed the idea of a currency union as 'stupidity on stilts'.
He added: 'Any eight-year-old can tell you the flag of a country, the capital of a country and its currency.
'I presume the flag is the Saltire, I assume our capital will still be Edinburgh, but you can't tell us what currency we will have. What is an eight-year-old going to make of that?'
Mounting a sustained attack on Mr Salmond, he said that without a currency union, Scotland would be left using the pound 'like Panama or Ecuador uses the dollar'.
'That would be ruinous for our financial services industry, is that your fall back position, is that plan B?'
He also had Mr Salmond on the ropes over his infamous claim to have legal advice about joining the European Union which he later admitted did not exist.
Winding up his arguments at the end of the two-hour clash, Mr Darling declared: 'Far too much of this debate has been characterised by guesswork, blind faith and crossed fingers.'
At the start of the debate, Mr Salmond urged voters in Scotland to seize the opportunity of independence with both hands.
He said: 'It should be a shared position tonight that Scotland could be a successful independent country.
'My case this evening is this: no one, no one will do a better job of running Scotland than the people who live and work in this country.
'On September 18 we have the opportunity of a lifetime. We should seize that opportunity with both hands.'
But Mr Darling warned 'the future of our country' was now at stake. He added: 'There are times that for the love of our family and the love of our country it's sometimes best to say No, not because we can't, but simply because it's not the best thing to do.
'In six weeks time we will make the biggest decision we've ever made here in Scotland and remember this, if we decide to leave there is no going back, there is no second chance.
'So let's say with confidence, let's say with pride, let's say with optimism No thanks to the risks of independence, and let's say let's have the best of both worlds not just for us but for generations to come.'
A new IpsosMori poll released as the debate got underway suggested the race is tightening, but the Yes vote still trails by about 14 points.
Of those 'absolutely certain' to vote, 54 per cent said they intend to vote No, unchanged since June, 40 per cent would vote Yes, up four percentage points, while six per cent are undecided, down by four points.
When undecided voters were removed from the figures, 58 per cent of those certain to vote would vote No, down by two points, while 42 per cent would vote Yes, up by two points.
However, the poll showed a large gender gap in how men and women intended to vote. Some 47 per cent of men said they were planning to vote Yes, but only 33 per cent of women planned to vote yes.
Mr Salmond's team hoped the success of the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow would bolster nationalist sentiment, with a strong showing in the medal table.
The debate over Scotland going it alone has gone global, with celebrities including Shrek star Mike Myers (who was born in Canada to British parents), singer David Bowie and even Kermit from The Muppets issuing please to preserve the UK.
Mr Salmond initially refused to take part in the debate, insisting he would only face Prime Minister David Cameron.
But Mr Cameron said it was right that the issues were thrashed out between Scots, and Mr Darling is the leader of the Better Together campaign.
Mr Salmond complained that policies such as the bedroom tax were being imposed by Westminster
Mr Darling said those calling for independence had no 'plan B' for how to run Scotland's economy
As the debate got underway, the STV website crashed as millions of people around the world tried to log on to watch the debate
The latest IpsosMORI survey released as the debate began suggests the race is narrowing slightly, but the No campaign still has a 14 point lead
ANALYSIS: HOW MR BORING BEAT SALMOND THE SHOWMAN BY SOWING THE SEEDS OF DOUBT
By Matt Chorley, MailOnline Political Editor
Alex Salmond went into the showdown as the bookies favourite to win. It was the showman against Mr Boring.
The Yes campaign was pinning its hopes on the First Minister delivering the knockout blow needed to build momentum ahead of polling day.
But Alistair Darling didn’t need to win last night’s clash, he just had to make sure Salmond didn’t secure victory.
He mocked Salmond’s arrogance, challenging him to ‘contemplate for one minute you might be wrong’.
The lines on the currency were damning, pointing out that an eight-year-old knows the flag, capital and currency of a country, but nationalists could not say what Scots would have in their wallets after independence.
The currency question is crucial, and speaks to wider doubts about what independence would mean in reality.
Voters will be asking themselves: If Salmond doesn’t know what will happen to the pound, has he really thought this through?
There were times when the First Minister put Darling on the spot: notably on whether he agreed with David Cameron that Scotland could be a successful independent country.
But more often he looked desperate, digging up old quotes and jokes to claim the No campaign was Project Fear
claiming independence would mean Scots would have to drive on the right or be more at risk from alien invaders.
No-one believes that, and it looked ridiculous when there are big question marks hanging over how his figures add up.
Few will have changed their minds after this 105-minute showdown, which suits the No campaign just fine.
The problem is Salmond already thinks he is the King of Scotland. His biggest porkie came when he declared a majority of Scots voted for him in 2011 (it was 45 per cent).
He repeatedly boasted independence would mean never again would the Tories rule over Scotland.
But democracy doesn’t always go your way Alex, as you could be about to find out.
Mr Salmond received performance advice from a lifestyle coach and happiness guru during his preparations.
Claire Howell, who runs a psychological coaching firm in Nottingham, has previously advised former footballer Stan Collymore.
She has banned the SNP from using 'Braveheart' words, such as 'freedom'. Instead she has urged Mr Salmond and his SNP MSPs to use words such as 'exciting', 'historic' and 'transformational'.
Mr Darling, meanwhile, had to build on his reputation as a number-crunching accountant, and display some passion about why Scotland should remain in the UK.
Time and again the debate returned to money, and how the figures for independence would add up. Mr Darling insisted the country was better off in the UK.
'Money has flowed both ways over the last 30 years, but in the last 22 years Scotland has spent more than it has put in, so we have benefited from being part of the United Kingdom,' Mr Darling said.
'We have higher public spending here per head than they do in the rest of the United Kingdom.
'As someone who is fiercely proud of being Scottish I am not unhappy that from time to time we tackle problems in Liverpool, in Manchester, in Norwich, in Newcastle, because as well as being Scottish I regard myself as being part of something bigger.
'But we benefit from being part of the UK at the moment.'
Mr Salmond, however, insisted: 'In each one of the last 33 years, Scotland has paid more in tax per person than the average of the UK. Over the last five years we have £8 billion more into the treasury than we have had out of it, in relative terms. that is £1,500 a head for every man, woman and child in Scotland.'
Better Together campaign director Blair McDougall said the debate would 'prove to be a huge, possibly decisive, moment in the referendum campaign'.
He claimed: 'Alistair Darling asked the questions Scotland needed answers to. The First Minister's failure to offer basic answers was there for all to see.'
But Blair Jenkins, chief executive of the pro-independence Yes Scotland group, insisted the debate had resulted in a 'clear win for the Yes campaign' with a 'positive, optimistic and visionary case presented by the First Minister against another dose of negativity and scaremongering from Mr Darling'.
Last night's debate was hosted by STV's political editor Bernard Ponsonby.
Under the rules agreed after intense negotiations, Mr Ponsonby quizzed both Mr Salmond and Mr Darling, the pair then cross examined each other, before being questioned by members of the audience.
Ahead of the clash, the No campaign got a major boost with the news it received more than double the donations given to the Yes camp last month.
New figures from the Electoral Commission show the No campaign has been given £2.7million, compared to just £1.5million given to the Yes campaign
AUDIENCE ROUNDS ON 'SNIDE' SALMOND FOR BEING 'NOT NICE'
Some audience members rounded on Alex Salmond for his personal attacks and petty point-scoring.
A businessman said he had attended to find out what the impact of independence would be on industry.
'I am disappointed with you,' the man told Mr Salmond.
'As a politician of some note, some of your remarks have been snide and not very nice, coming from the leader of the Scottish Parliament.
'If this is what we are going to have in independent Scotland, then obviously we are in for trouble.'
The Electoral Commission reported four pro-Union groups received donations of £151,248 between June 27 and July 24.
But two pro-independence groups were given just £65,000, the second pre-poll donations and loans report for the Scottish independence referendum reveals.
It means that since December, to No campaign has been given a total of £2,657,723, well ahead of the £1,524,120 donated to nationalists.
Both sides have boosted by seven figure donations, with Harry Potter author JK Rowling giving the No campaign £1million and Euromillions winners Chris and Colin Weir the biggest backers for the Yes campaign.
In an attempt to head off support for independence, David Cameron, Nick Clegg and Ed Miliband yesterday issued a rare joint declaration promising Scotland more powers – including setting income tax – if it stays in the UK.
The Tory, Lib Dem and Labour leaders hope the prospect of more devolution, without severing ties with England, will persuade undecided voters to choose to preserve the Union.
The three leaders backed the joint statement declaring: 'We support a strong Scottish Parliament in a strong United Kingdom and we support the further strengthening of the Parliament's powers.'
The three go on to promise to 'strengthen further the powers of the Scottish Parliament, in particular in the areas of fiscal responsibility and social security'.
Mr Clegg said the declaration is a 'significant statement of common purpose from the parties that have shaped Scotland's home rule journey'.
Mr Miliband said: 'We will introduce a new Scotland Act with more powers for the Scottish Parliament over tax, welfare and jobs.'
Chancellor George Osborne said the cross-party commitment gave Scotland an opportunity to have the 'best of both worlds'.
But Canon Kenyon Wright, who chaired the Scottish Constitutional Convention which spearheaded the campaign for a devolved assembly in the 1990s, said: 'The latest 'offer' of more powers from the unionist parties looks suspiciously like a rather desperate bribe - but it is not an answer to Scotland's needs.
'The central issue at stake in the referendum is simple: Where should the ultimate power to make decisions that affect the lives of people in Scotland lie - at Westminster or in Scotland?'
Mr Salmond's team hope the success of the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow would bolster nationalist sentiment, with a strong showing in medal table
A number of major companies have sounded the alarm about the impact of independence on their business, raising the prospects of jobs moving south in Scotland goes it alone.
Pensions and savings company Standard Life yesterday said it remained in the dark over 'material issues' surrounding Scottish independence.
Six months ago the firm, which has been based in Scotland for 189 years, issues a plea to Mr Salmond for clarity over what independence would mean for its four million customers, its shareholders and staff.
But in its half-year results today, the company warned: 'We do not believe that further clarity has been provided on any of these issues since our 2013 annual report and accounts was published on 27 February 2014.'
The company, which employs about 5,000 people in Scotland out of a total headcount of 8,500, has around £254 billion of assets under administration.
BP boss Bob Dudley has warned all businesses would face 'big uncertainties' particularly over the future currency if voters back independence.
Defence giant BAE Systems, which employs 37,000 people in the UK, says Scotland remaining in the 300-year-old union offers 'greater certainty and stability for our business'.
Lloyds Banking Group, Barclays, Standard Life, Royal Bank of Scotland, the Macfarlane Group and Breedon Aggregates have all listed independence in their risk management sections of their annual reports.
People around the world trying to watch the debate were greeted with blank screens, as servers struggled to cope with demand
DARLING'S TOP OF THE TWEETS: EX CHANCELLOR'S QUESTIONING GETS BIGGEST RESPONSE ONLINE
Alistair Darling's repeated questioning of Alex Salmond's currency plans for an independent Scotland got Twitter users most excited during last night's debate, according to figures from the social media website.
More than 2,000 tweets were sent during that point of the first live television debate on the referendum, with a total of 186,267 sent overall throughout the show on STV.
While a Guardian/ICM poll after the debate seemed to show Better Together campaigner Mr Darling to be the winner by a margin of 12%, the Yes campaign garnered more than double the number of tweets over the course of the day.
Twitter said 72,000 tweets were made about the Yes campaign, and 31,000 about the Better Together campaign.
Broadcaster STV faced criticism tonight after online viewers reported problems trying to watch the head-to-head debate on Scottish independence.
While television viewers in Scotland could watch the clash between the country's First Minister Alex Salmond and former Chancellor Alistair Darling, a surge in demand online across the rest of the UK caused STV's livestream to crash.
On Twitter, STV said: 'For those having problems with the STV Player at the moment we are aware of this and are working hard to fix it.'
Later it added: 'We're still working on fixing the live stream. The debate will be available online in full a few hours after the programme has finished.'
A number of viewers expressed their frustration on Twitter.
Labour MP Diane Abbott wrote: 'Finally watching £indyref debate after struggling for 40 minutes with dead STV Iplayer.'
Broadcaster Andrew Neil added: 'Trying to watch Salmond v Darling on STV iPlayer. But system seem overwhelmed. Any thoughts?'
Claire Stewart tweeted: 'An independent Scotland needs better equipped public broadcasters. £stvcrash £ScotDecides.'
Labour MP Tom Watson said: 'It may not be of interest to many but you would have thought a debate on the future of the union would be broadcast UK wide.'
HOW THE STARS ARE LINING UP
FOR INDEPENDENCE
Sir Sean Connery
Actor Sir Sean Connery: 'The people of Scotland are the best guardians of their own future'.
Actor Alan Cumming : 'The world is waiting for us. I know Scotland is ready.''
The Proclaimers: 'Scotland has huge national resources, with its people, its wave power – all the possibilities that this country has...we need to take charge of our own affairs'
Comedian Kevin Bridges: 'If the referendum was tomorrow, I'd probably vote yes.'
AGAINST INDEPENDENCE
David Bowie
David Bowie: 'Scotland, stay with us.'
Singer Rod Stewart : 'I'd hate to see the Union broken after all these years — and I don't think it will happen.'
Cyclist Sir Chris Hoy said: 'I've said numerous times how proud I am to be Scottish and how proud I have been to compete for Britain too. I don't think these two things necessarily have to be mutually exclusive.'
Ewan McGregor: 'I'm a Scotsman and I love Scotland with all my heart. But I also like the idea of Great Britain, and I don't know that it wouldn't be a terrible shame to break it all up.'
Susan Boyle: 'I am a proud, patriotic Scot, passionate about my heritage and my country. But I am not
a nationalist.'
Billy Connolly: 'I don't believe in having more layers of government that ordinary people will have to pay for. I think it's time for people to get together, not split apart.'
Wee Jimmy Krankie aka Janette Tough: 'Alex Salmond can sod off 'cos I don't want it. We don't live in Scotland so we won't get to vote and I don't think it's fair.'
KEEPING QUIET
Andy Murray
Singer Annie Lennox: 'It will be taken by the citizens of Scotland themselves, who need to seriously weigh up the pros and cons, as the responsibility lies wholeheartedly upon their shoulders.'
Tennis player Andy Murray: 'It's very difficult to have an opinion these days because half the people will agree with you and half of the people will think you're an absolute idiot'
Actor James McAvoy: ''I won't be getting involved at all. It's just counter-productive to my job, it's not what I do, and I don't think it's helpful to have me involved in it.'
