Abortion -The poll is not based upon Religious belief - It is based ethics

Abotion


  • Total voters
    25

BornRuff

Time Out
Nov 17, 2013
3,175
0
36
Ya, no money for drugs and life saving treatments for some kids, but no problem with money when it comes to killing kids.

The government already spends many times more money on drugs than they do on abortions.

It would be great if the government could provide more general coverage of dental care and prescription drugs, but we would have to be willing to pay a lot more in taxes in order to cover it.
 

Sal

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 29, 2007
17,135
33
48
Re: Abortion -Canada as it stands has no restrictions on abortion. None. Yet the majo

So I am assuming the No vote means "No it should not be allowed" as opposed to "No, there should not be restrictions". A more clearly worded poll may have been better.

Anyways, no restrictions before 20 - 22 weeks, after that only health of the mother. I am against gender selection as criteria but this would be unenforceable.

This is my only foray into this thread as this will likely degenerate quickly.

And do we really need ANOTHER abortion thread?

Also, I think it clear why Harper does not address this. It is a highly divisive issue and there is no upside to either position politically. Justine more than likely sunk himself in the long run unless Harper takes the bait (which he won't).
Right on!!!! :wav: except Justine has not sunk himself...everyone who hates Harper (the majority) will endorse him... the next Liberal government is about to appear, except in Ontario...since those bastards just screwed us, ya know like every party does

As for the thread, I'm right there with you....explosion of tempers and mental and emotional meltdowns in .... three , two....

no fuking way I'm wading into this sh*t in this forum...did so before and people are fuking unbalanced if you view things even slightly different from them... and their assumptions about how others think from a single statement is enough to make me despair about the human condition and it's ability to think in a rational manner.

Late-term abortions (after 20 weeks) are not an issue in Canada. According to Statistics Canada, late-term abortions represent 0.4% of abortions and are only performed if the foetus is not viable or the mother's life is in peril or both.
fuk off Spade, facts have zero place in this emotionally volatile thread :p
 

Sal

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 29, 2007
17,135
33
48
Re: Abortion -Canada as it stands has no restrictions on abortion. None. Yet the majo

This is just social conservative stupidity.

Late term abortion simply isn't an issue in Canada. No doctor in Canada will perform an abortion after 24 weeks. Very very few will do it after 20 weeks, and that is normally only in cases where a major health issue has arisen.

When it comes to sex selection or economic reasons why someone would have an abortion, there really is no way to legislate subjective reasons why people would want to have an abortion.

They can make it illegal to tell parents the sex of a baby before they are born, but people who really want to find out will be able to find people willing to tell them. Ultrasounds are necessary for other reasons, so we can't ban those.
why let the facts get in the way of moral superiority
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
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Moving
Late-term abortions (after 20 weeks) are not an issue in Canada. According to Statistics Canada, late-term abortions represent 0.4% of abortions and are only performed if the foetus is not viable or the mother's life is in peril or both.

Ask Hospitals for records. Good luck getting them. And that is where Stats Can gets their stats.

Does Stats Can can have a number for sex selective abortions. Must have been a reason behind the Can Med assn asking Drs. not to disclose sex of the baby till later.
Or for an aborted twin due to economics?
 

BornRuff

Time Out
Nov 17, 2013
3,175
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36
Ask Hospitals for records. Good luck getting them. And that is where Stats Can gets their stats.

Does Stats Can can have a number for sex selective abortions. Must have been a reason behind the Can Med assn asking Drs. not to disclose sex of the baby till later.
Or for an aborted twin due to economics?

You just love questions that can't be answered, eh?

If there is no way to measure, then you can't ever be proven wrong! Yay!

What specific policy measures would you propose for these issues?
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
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Moving
You just love questions that can't be answered, eh?

If there is no way to measure, then you can't ever be proven wrong! Yay!

What specific policy measures would you propose for these issues?

http://www.arcc-cdac.ca/postionpapers/24-Sex-Selection-Abortions.pdf

ARCC-CDAC Position
In Canada, women do not have to provide a reason to obtain an abortion, since abortions are
available upon request. Also, being pro-choice means supporting a woman's right to decide
whether or not to continue a pregnancy for whatever reason, even if one personally does not
agree with her reason. Most people, including those in the pro-choice movement and those who
work in abortion clinics, are personally uncomfortable with sex-selection abortions, particularly
since cultural biases seem to be the motivating factor behind these abortions.
However, it is important to remember that we cannot restrict women's right to abortion just
because some women might make decisions we disagree with
 

BornRuff

Time Out
Nov 17, 2013
3,175
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36
http://www.arcc-cdac.ca/postionpapers/24-Sex-Selection-Abortions.pdf

ARCC-CDAC Position
In Canada, women do not have to provide a reason to obtain an abortion, since abortions are
available upon request. Also, being pro-choice means supporting a woman's right to decide
whether or not to continue a pregnancy for whatever reason, even if one personally does not
agree with her reason. Most people, including those in the pro-choice movement and those who
work in abortion clinics, are personally uncomfortable with sex-selection abortions, particularly
since cultural biases seem to be the motivating factor behind these abortions.
However, it is important to remember that we cannot restrict women's right to abortion just
because some women might make decisions we disagree with

That doesn't address anything in my post.

It is all well and good to be against it, but what would you do about it?

Force women to take a lie detector test before obtaining an abortion?
 

Sal

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 29, 2007
17,135
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That doesn't address anything in my post.

It is all well and good to be against it, but what would you do about it?

Force women to take a lie detector test before obtaining an abortion?
not put money in social programs that for damn sure....
make them have the baby.... then say fuk ya, we are not supporting the baby or you, you lazy ****/*****, you had sex...now, get out and work and who cares if the kid starves or who looks after it...I'm okay, I made it, you should too...

it's a morality thing

saved a life
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
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That doesn't address anything in my post.

It is all well and good to be against it, but what would you do about it?

Force women to take a lie detector test before obtaining an abortion?

That topic is for another thread. I am pro choice, but within certain limits. No abortion, after a certain gestation period unless mothers life is in danger is one, I will add more when I get around to posting another thread.
Sex selection- NO.
Twin aborted for economics- No.
And I do not give cred to the hospitals to produce accurate stats.
Why, because of the repercussions.
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
9,949
21
38
kelowna bc
I don't think this will bite Trudeau at all. He has raised an issue that can narrow the
focus on the Tories. While people do favor some restrictions most are pro choice
on the national scene. Those wanting restrictions still support pro choice and in that
I think he took a risk but many will support pro choice and that will bite the Tories
 

Sal

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 29, 2007
17,135
33
48
I don't think this will bite Trudeau at all. He has raised an issue that can narrow the
focus on the Tories. While people do favor some restrictions most are pro choice
on the national scene. Those wanting restrictions still support pro choice and in that
I think he took a risk but many will support pro choice and that will bite the Tories
absolutely right
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
I don't think this will bite Trudeau at all. He has raised an issue that can narrow the
focus on the Tories. While people do favor some restrictions most are pro choice
on the national scene. Those wanting restrictions still support pro choice and in that
I think he took a risk but many will support pro choice and that will bite the Tories

The focus is the majority of Canadians support some restrictions on abortion.
Perfect example- check this poll.
The Cons will state, Free Votes on all matters of conscience.
Trudeau is where on this?

The Liberals have realized this, after Hairdo announced this and when asked if a bill came to Parliament, would the Party Whip the vote. They run away and no answers. Even Hairdo would not answer to a policy he has made. What does that tell you?
He fuked up.
He has only begun to pay the price.

Justin Trudeau's abortion stance leaves Liberal ranks in confusion - Politics - CBC News

Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau tried to clarify his abortion policy over the long weekend, saying he knows people were "troubled" by it.

New MPs in his party, he said, can be personally opposed to abortion as long as they vote along party lines on any bill or motion that tries to restrict a woman's right to choose.

Trudeau spelled out that "Liberal MPs are welcome and encouraged to hold fast to their personal beliefs."

But he asserted, "Under my leadership, incoming Liberal MPs will always vote in favour of a woman's fundamental rights."

Easter, reached by phone in P.E.I., described himself as the only MP on the Island who "ever was pro-choice." Easter said he didn't know if a vote on abortion would be whipped, and noted that Trudeau was asked the same question by a reporter during his May 7 announcement .

"That's a tough one," Trudeau replied, and then, as Easter put it, "He moved away from it."
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
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Moving
We see developmentally challenged people, we see ones that have Downs Syndrome. We have as a society provided numerous programs to assist parents. Employment & school programs.
Tell me why their lives are worthless?
 

Corduroy

Senate Member
Feb 9, 2011
6,670
2
36
Vancouver, BC
I don't know how to reconcile objections to sex selection with a woman's right to choose. The argument that gives a woman the right to terminate a pregnancy applies regardless of the reason.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
Re: Abortion -Canada as it stands has no restrictions on abortion. None. Yet the majo

It is a matter of conscience for the one having the abortion. It is nobody else's business.


Except for the subject who doesn't have a say!
 

Twila

Nanah Potato
Mar 26, 2003
14,698
73
48
Re: Abortion -Canada as it stands has no restrictions on abortion. None. Yet the majo

Except for the subject who doesn't have a say!

Many people have many different ideas as to what is just a few cells to what is a fetus. Levels of viability are questioned. The decision ultimately rests on one person.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
116,997
14,192
113
Low Earth Orbit
Human life is human life. Either you respect it or you don't. If you don't, don't cry when your life is disrespected laws be damned.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
Re: Abortion -Canada as it stands has no restrictions on abortion. None. Yet the majo

Many people have many different ideas as to what is just a few cells to what is a fetus. Levels of viability are questioned. The decision ultimately rests on one person.

Yep, I would hope she makes the right one!
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
113
63
Vancouver Island
Re: Abortion -Canada as it stands has no restrictions on abortion. None. Yet the majo

Yep, I would hope she makes the right one!

i am ok with abortions as long as they are done very early, 'embryo stage only', and yes, if a woman makes
the decision to have an abortion within that stage of pregnancy, it is her decision, and no one else's
business, and unless you have that decision to make jlm, it isn't mine or your business, we have no right
to judge or interfere in her life, we don't know her circumstances.

if pregnancies move along into the fetus stage, then my attitude changes, as a pregnancy shouldn't go
that long then terminate, unless there is a definite medical reason for doing so, and that is also
the business of the woman and her doctor, not ours.

i have known two young women who have terminated their pregnancies at an 'early stage'
, and the reasons for
them doing so were important, as they were both married, and had husbands who were a very negative
weight on their lives, physical abuse was a problem for the women, there were allready children in the marriages, these women were like slaves in their own homes. there was no money for much of anything,
the husbands controlled everything, so 'enough was enough', the women's group i was attending at the
time, made all the arrangements, took them for the medical procedure, which took a huge weight off of
their allready suffering lives, then other plans were made to help them get out of those relationships.
they have since then, built themselves new lives, also with much help from women's groups, and moved on.
both of these women entered these marriages at a very young age, not much more than children themselves.

i find it so sad that it is always 'men' who judge in this subject, and the worst pArt of it, is that
all of the women are talked about as though each situation has nothing to do with 'anything' but the
pregnancy, and the life of the woman doesn't seem important, she is talked about as though she is just
a selfish person with no thought for anyone but herself,' i am sick of this attitude.'

certainly there should be some common sense restrictions for, 'when' an abortion is allowed, they
should all be done very early on, again, with some exceptions, that only concern 'woman and doctor'.
there you go, now you all can trash the hell out of me, i couldn't give a 'flying f**k', i've said my piece, so all of you holier than thow men can ban together and
do your gossiping, i'm out of here.